Watching pros makes you better, and we should watch women players

ttmonster · Aug 8, 2017

Completely agree with you Baal. I also like watching Feng Tianwei , just because her game is so clean ... I specifically remember her match with a chopper which was a complete eye opener for me , the way she kept pushing and attacking to the middle and making the chopper change from forehand to backhand and searching for a weak ball to loop kill ...

Baal said:
Forget whether it is bang bang or close in or spinny.

Watch how Zhang Yining moves her feet and watch her balance. Watch how, as a result, she can immediately go in the offensive with her forehand given even the slightest opportunity.

This is the thing. And it is gender neutral and nobody has ever been better at that aspect of the game.

UpSideDownCarl · Aug 8, 2017

It is interesting. From a logic standpoint, I agree with all the points about what is positive about women's TT and why it should be good to watch. But it really is not as interesting to me to watch despite all that.

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ttmonster · Aug 8, 2017

May be you don't focus on the positive things Carl too closely , especially the legs , the footwork .... etcetera ...

UpSideDownCarl said:
It is interesting. From a logic standpoint, I agree with all the points about what is positive about women's TT and why it should be good to watch. But it really is not as interesting to me to watch despite all that.

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UpSideDownCarl · Aug 8, 2017

ttmonster said:
May be you don't focus on the positive things Carl too closely , especially the legs , the footwork .... etcetera ...

I can't explain it. But it is not that at all. From an intellectual standpoint I can see: wow, there is so much going on. And they are playing at such a fast pace.

I also understand Baal's point about how amazing Zhang Yining was. She is definitely one of my favorite women to watch. Perhaps my favorite. But despite watching and thinking, from an intellectual standpoint, "this is pretty amazing!" It still is not actually interesting to watch for me. It does not pull me in.

Whereas, some of those crazy looping rallies with those outrageous amounts of curve and arc on the ball, the around the net to around the net bombs, there is something about that that grabs every fiber of my being and makes me want to get on a table and play.

I am just trying to explain what is the case for me and perhaps for some of the other people who are saying they don't really like watching the women. I could lie and pretend I do like the watching the women. I can list all the reasons it is pretty amazing stuff. But I guess I just love seeing the Magnus Effect in action.

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UpSideDownCarl · Aug 8, 2017

ttmonster said:
May be you don't focus on the positive things Carl too closely , especially the legs , the footwork .... etcetera ...

Oh, one more thing: much more interesting for me to focus on the positive things....the legs and curves of women doing some other sports activities. [emoji2]

Hahahaha.

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Ilia Minkin · Aug 8, 2017

UpSideDownCarl said:
I can't explain it. But it is not that at all. From an intellectual standpoint I can see: wow, there is so much going on. And they are playing at such a fast pace.

I also understand Baal's point about how amazing Zhang Yining was. She is definitely one of my favorite women to watch. Perhaps my favorite. But despite watching and thinking, from an intellectual standpoint, "this is pretty amazing!" It still is not actually interesting to watch for me. It does not pull me in.

Whereas, some of those crazy looping rallies with those outrageous amounts of curve and arc on the ball, the around the net to around the net bombs, there is something about that that grabs every fiber of my being and makes me want to get on a table and play.

I am just trying to explain what is the case for me and perhaps for some of the other people who are saying they don't really like watching the women. I could lie and pretend I do like the watching the women. I can list all the reasons it is pretty amazing stuff. But I guess I just love seeing the Magnus Effect in action.

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BTW, I personally like to watch women's defensive players. Since they are less likely to be overpowered (unless they play the top 4), they create lots of fantastic points.

ttmonster · Aug 8, 2017

So in table tennis you would rather watch the ball curve ... I get it TT Nerds !

Ilia Minkin said:
BTW, I personally like to watch women's defensive players. Since they are less likely to be overpowered (unless they play the top 4), they create lots of fantastic points.

Dominikk85 · Aug 8, 2017

Btw not sure if we should make that comparison but at what male level could the top chinese women compete? Top100? Top200? Retired pros in their mid 40s (like waldner)?

ttmonster · Aug 8, 2017

Ask McEnroe

... just kidding ... top chinese women gave top CNT men quite a fright the last time they played against each other ... so it should be pretty close ...

Dominikk85 said:
Btw not sure if we should make that comparison but at what male level could the top chinese women compete? Top100? Top200? Retired pros in their mid 40s (like waldner)?

UpSideDownCarl · Aug 9, 2017

ttmonster said:
Ask McEnroe ... just kidding ... top chinese women gave top CNT men quite a fright the last time they played against each other ... so it should be pretty close ...

Agreed. I think in TT, because the sport is so much about skill sets, the top women are closer to the top men than in any other sport I can think of.

Interesting though, would be to see the top women against top men choppers. I think, against choppers you do need more power, strength and endurance. I think the top women choppers are nowhere near the level of the top men choppers. And are still high level against the women.

So the top women may have more trouble against a top 50 male chopper than they have against the top 20 men.

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Baal · Aug 9, 2017

I think once top men get accustomed to the way women play then they have no problem at all. You can't try to play at their pace close in. It occurs to me that if someone was preparing to play Harimoto, training with women might be helpful.

shinshiro · Aug 9, 2017

ttmonster said:
Ask McEnroe ... just kidding ... top chinese women gave top CNT men quite a fright the last time they played against each other ... so it should be pretty close ...

I didn't know thay played against each other.
Is there a video on youtube? I'm curious to watch!

ttmonster · Aug 9, 2017

Somebody had posted a link , but I could not find it ... could be a Chinese site ... not sure ..

shinshiro said:
I didn't know thay played against each other.
Is there a video on youtube? I'm curious to watch!

Baal · Aug 9, 2017

I do remember a video where Jorgen Persson just took a couple of steps back and just brought back every ball Ding Ning sent to him until she got off balance and he looped one too hard for her. But he was always smart. She really didn't have enough power to get the ball by him and he is pretty tall.

ajtatosmano2 · Aug 9, 2017

In Hungary women's first league players are estimated to be equal to men's second league players. At least their playing power was estimated like this in an all-league handicap tournament. But my teammate girl who is around fourth league level will play next year in women's second league.

ajtatosmano2 · Aug 9, 2017

I've found this in another thread: Zhang Yining vs Lucjan Blaszczyk

Dominikk85 · Aug 9, 2017

Found this too. In both matches she initially struggled with the power loops but then she adjusted with her blocks (is that a block or a counter hit she uses on her bh most of the time - very short motion).

Of course the two weren't very top pros (or in blascyks case not anymore at this time) but still impressive how she can handle that.

Baal · Aug 9, 2017

ZYN would beat Mark Hazinski every time. Blaszyk probably should have beat her then but was in really bad form and got nervous. And of course, this was not any ordinary woman player!

Dominikk85 · Aug 9, 2017

Btw was it a smart strategy by the guys to use power loops right away? At first she struggled with the pace but then she adjusted and redirected the pace.

Wouldn't it have been smarter to start with soft loops so she couldn't generate pace with her short strokes and then attack later?

shinshiro · Aug 9, 2017

Thanks Baal for creating this thread. I think now I have a new favorite female (ex)player! She is amazing!

Watching pros makes you better, and we should watch women players

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