Suggestions on Hinoki Blade and Spin Oriented Rubber with Med/High Throw

This is my personal reference table on the best / most specialized looper blade available, and as You can see, topped by 2 1 ply Hinoki Blade.

The pts are my own assessment based on online reviews and own trial, so ME factor is really high. I am a chopper, so my assessment Highly Biased.

and Note that Speed and Spin Potential is linked, means they are ratio that sum up to 10. They are not actual speed nor spin.

Note. For those from statistic background, They actually are -3 to 3 Z-Scores that projected to 0 - 10 scale.

BeGo, may I use this thread to ask you what would you expect for chopping with Xiom Vega Tour + Omega V Asia /it's a hard rubber/. I'm not a chopper, but sometimes I have to chop and I find it very diffult to chop slower balls. Faster balls I chop better especially with BH.

langel said:

BeGo, may I use this thread to ask you what would you expect for chopping with Xiom Vega Tour + Omega V Asia /it's a hard rubber/. I'm not a chopper, but sometimes I have to chop and I find it very diffult to chop slower balls. Faster balls I chop better especially with BH.

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That are a very balanced combi. [emoji28]

The problem is the approach, no incentive to chop slow ball, cause the opponent already in ready form before you chop the ball back, so time to give Him extra oomph? [emoji6]




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Yes, you are absolutely right, but sometimes midtable balls pop-up so low that I have either to kick it up or to cut it as sharp as can.

langel said:

Yes, you are absolutely right, but sometimes midtable balls pop-up so low that I have either to kick it up or to cut it as sharp as can.

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This not Your fault, though.

Weakness of allrounder combi is, it is not particularly excel at anything, so for "inbetween" ball like this (too slow and short to defend, too low to atack), it perform poor compared to more specialised combi.

Slow but spinny rubber user like looper and chopper will cut / push it, and the resultant will be very low and deep.

less spinny rubber user like driver blocker would drive it home without mercy, and the spin affect the rubber less, so no pop up.

Note. I said allrounder combi, which does not always imply ALL blade or rubber.

chintanmashroo said:

I am looking for a TRUST-ABLE online vendor who sells Butterfly rubbers without any crazy shipping charges (TT11 doesnt supply butterfly rubbers in my country)

Personally, I want to try Aurus Prime for FH as an alternative,
I have tried Rakza X and that suits my gameplay on BH

with my previous setup, I kept the max thickness on Rakza 7 and Nittaku Flyatt Spin and Soft, but it didnt work as expected on Miyabi blade.

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1) Butterfly Sales and Distribution Info: Legit online vendors or vendors of any kind, are not supposed to sell Butterfly products out of their region. This is Butterfly policy. It is how they fix prices for regions. If Butterfly catches a real Butterfly distributor selling out of their sales region, that distributor will be cut by Butterfly.

So, if you want Butterfly, you need to buy from the distributor in your region. If you are buying from outside of your region, chances are the products are counterfeit.

2) Blade and Rubbers Well Matched: Often when someone buys a new blade and puts the same rubbers he was used to on the new (different) blade, the person wonders, why did I like these rubbers on that blade and I don't like them on this new blade.

In TT that causes a lot of people to feel, one particular rubber does not work well on certain blades but does work well on other blades. And/or, that certain blades only work well with certain rubbers.

It is not quite accurate. If you did not feel the blade with different rubbers or the rubbers with a different blade, they would feel good.

The rubbers still do what they do: grab and spin the ball.

The blade still does what it does: help the rubbers grab the ball and then project the ball out.

But when you are used to one setup, and change to a different setup, what you feel is very different from what you expect to feel. And then you think things are not working correctly. If you play with the new setup for 2-4 months and really get the feel for it, you will get used to it, and your touch and stroke trajectory will adjust to the new setup.

If you did that and went back to the old setup after about 6-8 months, the old setup would feel wrong for a time as well.

If you are a real EJ and try a new setup or two every time you play, you start feeling the benefits of different setups faster.

But the rubbers you are considering will work for the Darker 7P-2A and 7P-2A.7t.

The 7t in the second blade means 7mm thickness. The 7P in both means 7 plies of high quality Hinoki.


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Very good explanation how a blade-rubber system works and what a player should expect to agregate to it.
The problem is that nowerdays there are so many blades and rubbers, that the combinations are much more than the players.
So to find individual "best fit" is really a matter of chance, unless you are in a position the producers to make things upon your special requirements. Or at least to have enough time and monetary resources to experiment.

Weakness of allrounder combi is, it is not particularly excel at anything, so for "inbetween" ball like this (too slow and short to defend, too low to atack), it perform poor compared to more specialised combi.

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Thank you, so a better strategy would be to not allow my opponent to give me such balls, rather then trying to turn them back effectively. Which will be very difficult, because for me the only way to opposite choppers /except massive and final attack when possible/ is to play them close to the net and pushing aside which brings the mentioned above.

langel said:

The problem is that nowerdays there are so many blades and rubbers, that the combinations are much more than the players.
So to find individual "best fit" is really a matter of chance....

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It is not really as hard as it seems. For the OP in this thread, he is looking for Hinoki.

With a good Hinoki blade, whatever rubbers suite the OP's game should actually be fine. It sounds like he is looking for standard, high end Offensive rubbers. There are enough from any number of brands that would be good.

In the above scenario I am making the assumption that Hinoki works well for the OP.

But how to match equipment to the player, to a large extent, has to do with figuring out what wood or woods work for the player. In truth the top ply is the most important ply in finding a blade that will work well for you.

I will use myself as an example. I have played with blades that have these top plies:

1) Limba
2) Hinoki
3) Koto
4) White Ash
5) Rosewood
6) Ebony
7) Walnut

There are more. But those will be enough to illustrate my point. For me, the softest of these woods--Hinoki and Limba--work the best. For looping, for me, Hinoki actually works best. But because I have this like of smacking the ball every so often, and Limba feels better to me when I do that, Limba is the top ply of choice.

The harder woods like Koto and the others listed, have a different feel that I just don't like as much. And with Limba or Hinoki I can really get a lot of spin.

If I play with a blade with any of the other top plies, I will adjust my contact and touch to them and be fine. But with Limba or Hinoki, I feel dialed in to spin the hell out of the ball when I loop.

It is true that the ply underneath the top ply plays a role. So does the core. A core can make a blade faster or slower. A middle ply can make a blade more springy, neutral or the opposite of springy.

So if you look at these constructions:

1) Limba-Spruce-Ayous-Spruce-Limba
2) Limba-Ayous-Ayous-Ayous-Limba
3) Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba

The first will be the most springy, the third will be the least and the second one will be in between the first and third.

The spruce actually does something like what the Arylate of an ALC blade does. You get the dwell time from the Limba and this springiness from the Spruce.

In any case, things like this have more to do with whether you want a little extra dwell time or a little extra speed.

If you find a top ply that works well for you, then every TT company will have several blades with that top ply that will be good for you. The rest is determining the speed of the blade you should use. And frankly, most intermediate level players (or lower) choose equipment that is too fast for their needs and too fast for the good of their development.

Once you have determined what top ply works for you, and seen that there are several blades from each of the major TT companies with that top ply in various speed classes, then all you really need to do is choose rubbers you like.

There are benefits to using a slower blade and faster rubbers. There are benefits to using a faster blade with slower rubbers. Adjusting your equipment so your serve, short game and mid-distance looping work okay are really the bigger priorities for most offensive players. This is because the first 3 balls are usually what determine the rest of the rally of a point actually goes farther than the first three balls.

If your priority is more spin, softer woods help you more with that. If your priority is more speed, harder woods help you with that. A player who is at a decently high enough level--elite amateur or semi-pro level--has precise enough technique to get maximum spin with any kind of wood (or composite material).

And a certain amount of this issue that is really valuable is WHAT FEELS BEST TO YOU.

It is worth understanding that if a particular kind of wood feels good to you, it is worth going with that. The first time I put a blade with a Limba top ply in my hand, every time I hit the ball, the woody feeling of the Limba top ply made me really happy.

When I really realized this was, after using a TB ZLF for a few years (Koto top ply) someone put a blade with a Limba top ply (Stiga Allround Evolution) in my hand, and I realized how much I missed that deep, dark woody feeling of the Limba top ply.


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The short version of what I just said:

1) Figure out what top ply works best for you.
2) Figure out what speed blade will be ideal for your development.
3) Any rubbers that match your style of play will be good. Choose rubbers. If you don't LOVE them, next time, choose different ones.

All the top Offensive rubbers from the different TT companies will do what you they are supposed to for you. Without real EJing, changing your rubbers when they are dead (every 3 months or so) you can get to try 4-10 sets of rubbers a year. When you come across a rubber you fall in love with, stick with it.

My favorite rubber is T05. It is pretty amazing. But MXP works more than well enough for me. So does Victas V>01 Stiff. So does Omega V Pro. The list goes on. [emoji2]

[emoji2]


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Last detail:

I have played many blades with a Hinoki top ply. I really do believe Hinoki is the most amazing wood. But I also feel that Hinoki works better when it is in a blade where ALL plies are Hinoki, or, where it is a ONE PLY Hinoki blade. I also feel, when Hinoki is used as the top ply in a composite blade, the blade usually ends up being REALLY rocket ship fast.

If I was going to get a different blade than my Tibhar Kim Jung Hoon or my OSP Virtuoso Plus, I WOULD GET a Darker 7P-2A. The thinner one: The 6.2mm one.

But if I could get a thinner all Hinoki blade, like a 5 ply all Hinoki blade that was about 5.6mm thick, that would be an amazing blade for me.


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Thanks a lot, USD Carl!
I feel exactly the same.
And I think that such comments have to be orginized in a special theme such as "how to"
It would be very usefull.

langel said:

Thanks a lot, USD Carl!
I feel exactly the same.
And I think that such comments have to be orginized in a special theme such as "how to"
It would be very usefull.

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I guess I will explain this in this way. There is a thread that is titled something like: "new to the site," for people who are new. It doesn't stop people who are new from posting thread after thread with things like: "Hello from the Philippines." There are countless threads titled something like: "racket for a beginner" and it doesn't stop others from making many more threads with the same subject matter.

So, to me, even though there are so many subjects that come up again and again, and unfold in almost the same way over and over, it still makes more sense to give the information as it comes up rather than thinking that putting all the info in one thread will take care of the future inquiries of members who have not joined yet. [emoji2]


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Get Carl's setup and call it a day.. for real. Not just because the shyt is getting real when you use Carl's setup, nor because you are trying to cause trouble for the Goon Squad, but because it is one of the many possible setups that will allow you to play offensive and land more shots over a macho-man setup.

Der_Echte said:

Get Carl's setup and call it a day.. for real. Not just because the shyt is getting real when you use Carl's setup, nor because you are trying to cause trouble for the Goon Squad, but because it is one of the many possible setups that will allow you to play offensive and land more shots over a macho-man setup.

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Tibhar (designed by Nexy) Kim Jung Hoon with Nexy Karis M is excellent for return of serve and counterlooping because of how well the Karis M handles incoming spin.


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UpSideDownCarl said:

Tibhar (designed by Nexy) Kim Jung Hoon with Nexy Karis M is excellent for return of serve and counterlooping because of how well the Karis M handles incoming spin.


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Is that Hinoki and is that Ding Ning over there? Godda go.

Suga D said:

Is that Hinoki and is that Ding Ning over there? Godda go.

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Who is pimping Nexy gear. [emoji2]


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Question... Is Pimping easy?

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Der_Echte said:

Question... Is Pimping easy?

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If you like the gear it is fairly easy. If not, it just won't work anyway.


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UpSideDownCarl said:

It is not really as hard as it seems. For the OP in this thread, he is looking for Hinoki.

With a good Hinoki blade, whatever rubbers suite the OP's game should actually be fine. It sounds like he is looking for standard, high end Offensive rubbers. There are enough from any number of brands that would be good.

In the above scenario I am making the assumption that Hinoki works well for the OP.

But how to match equipment to the player, to a large extent, has to do with figuring out what wood or woods work for the player. In truth the top ply is the most important ply in finding a blade that will work well for you.

I will use myself as an example. I have played with blades that have these top plies:

1) Limba
2) Hinoki
3) Koto
4) White Ash
5) Rosewood
6) Ebony
7) Walnut

There are more. But those will be enough to illustrate my point. For me, the softest of these woods--Hinoki and Limba--work the best. For looping, for me, Hinoki actually works best. But because I have this like of smacking the ball every so often, and Limba feels better to me when I do that, Limba is the top ply of choice.

The harder woods like Koto and the others listed, have a different feel that I just don't like as much. And with Limba or Hinoki I can really get a lot of spin.

If I play with a blade with any of the other top plies, I will adjust my contact and touch to them and be fine. But with Limba or Hinoki, I feel dialed in to spin the hell out of the ball when I loop.

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Hmmm... interesting.
[Emoji15]

Well, i thought the KJH has a white-ash top ply? But maybe you just like the overall performance....

[Emoji12]