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    1. Top | #1
      MaLongSenpai is offline
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      Question Boosting H3 NEO National

      Hey!

      So a very quick question which I hope will receive a quick response! Basically, I ordered two rubbers from PROTT (FH/BH H3 NEO National); these were the 'tuned' versions, but I'm not sure whether they need boosting straight out of the pack or whether I am able to use the pre tuned versions and then simply re-boost them at a later date

      Also, as I understand it, with Chinese rubbers (when boosting) it's best to apply a layer of glue on the rubber and then boost...

      Thank you very much!

    2. Top | #2
      ajtatosmano2 is offline
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      Boost them. Nationals are the best rubbers to boost.

      By the way, which booster is better for H3: Falco or Revolution XTreme?

    3. Top | #3
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      i have used both tuners and falco long seem to have more effect and lasts longer. the revolution tuner is a more gentle tuner.
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    5. Top | #4
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      All the NEO rubbers - national, commercial, nittaku - are factory tuned. So the question of whether to add more booster arises for all of them.

      Rare birds somehow like them as is with just the factory tuning. But most people much prefer all of them with 3+ layers of booster.

      There are different methods for boosting them - some remove the factory tuning before boosting, some add glue after a first layer of boost, some add glue before putting any boost. With falco this method works well IMO:

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    7. Top | #5
      MaLongSenpai is offline
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      In the absence of swift response I did some digging and, as it turns out, the factory 'tuning' layer is basically a loss in translation. About 1-2 years ago, a representative from DHS did a Q&A and stated that the tuning layer isn't booster but is in fact a layer of something similar to speed glue that would allow for someone to walk into a TT shop in China, buy the 'tuned' rubber and just slap it on the blade - boosting is still necessary.
      I also discovered that this tuning layer means that, unless the rubber has been used before (In my case, these rubbers are brand new) there is no need to apply a base layer of glue before boosting - in actual fact, anyone familiar with the concept of glue would assume that applying an extra layer of glue on top of the 'tuner' would mean that it's harder for the booster to seep into the sponge and do it's job. I am in the process of applying the Falco booster as we speak, I have done two middling layers ready for a slightly thicker layer on the FH rubber given it's degree but I will be putting a slightly thinner layer on the BH given that is only a 37 degree rubber. Regardless, thank you for your help!

    8. Top | #6
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by ajtatosmano2 View Post
      Boost them. Nationals are the best rubbers to boost.

      By the way, which booster is better for H3: Falco or Revolution XTreme?
      I have heard that Haifu SeaMoon and Dianchi boosters are better than Falco for H3 and I have heard that Haifu Oil is better than either of those.
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    10. Top | #7
      matzreenzi is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      I have heard that Haifu SeaMoon and Dianchi boosters are better than Falco for H3 and I have heard that Haifu Oil is better than either of those.
      I agree that Haifu SeaMoon is better for H3 than FalcoTLB in every aspect except Falco have longer effect obviously. Never tried Haifu oil though.
      Last edited by matzreenzi; 09-08-2017 at 10:46 AM.

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    12. Top | #8
      OhWell is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by MaLongSenpai View Post
      In the absence of swift response I did some digging and, as it turns out, the factory 'tuning' layer is basically a loss in translation. About 1-2 years ago, a representative from DHS did a Q&A and stated that the tuning layer isn't booster but is in fact a layer of something similar to speed glue that would allow for someone to walk into a TT shop in China, buy the 'tuned' rubber and just slap it on the blade - boosting is still necessary.
      I also discovered that this tuning layer means that, unless the rubber has been used before (In my case, these rubbers are brand new) there is no need to apply a base layer of glue before boosting - in actual fact, anyone familiar with the concept of glue would assume that applying an extra layer of glue on top of the 'tuner' would mean that it's harder for the booster to seep into the sponge and do it's job. I am in the process of applying the Falco booster as we speak, I have done two middling layers ready for a slightly thicker layer on the FH rubber given it's degree but I will be putting a slightly thinner layer on the BH given that is only a 37 degree rubber. Regardless, thank you for your help!
      - Making it harder for the booster to do its work isn't a mistake: that also makes it harder the booster to damage rubber, especially the bond between the topsheet and the sponge.

      - About whether the tuning layer is booster, speed glue like, etc. Boosters aren't (normally) adhesives. The tuning layer is adhesive. So saying that the tuning layer is booster would be inaccurate. It's also not just glue: you say yourself that it has a "speed glue" like effect.

      Speed glue is glue that also adds spin and speed to the rubber's performance. Booster does the latter without itself being adhesive. The semantic problem of what to call the factory applied layer on the neo, something that isn't has adhesive and boosting properties without being speed glue, isn't a very enticing rabbit hole. That's why there's no agreed upon term for whatever is in that layer. We could call it adhesive with boosting effect that isn't speed glue but that doesn't roll off the tongue..

      If you are interested, this article does a nice job of explaining much of what these substances do to the sponge: https://thoughtsontabletennis.wordpr...nis-chemistry/

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    14. Top | #9
      fxri is offline
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      I always use haifu seamoon on my h3 commercial, best effect for me better than speed glue. I used to use speed glue on my h3.

      But the problem with seamoon is your h3 rubber will be tear apart after 1 or 2 months especially the sponge. You will almost unable to reglue it when the effect of the booster has gone and that means you have to buy another one.

      Thats why I only use h3 commercial

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    15. Top | #10
      SFF_lib is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by fxri View Post
      I always use haifu seamoon on my h3 commercial, best effect for me better than speed glue. I used to use speed glue on my h3.

      But the problem with seamoon is your h3 rubber will be tear apart after 1 or 2 months especially the sponge. You will almost unable to reglue it when the effect of the booster has gone and that means you have to buy another one.

      Thats why I only use h3 commercial

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      My national H3 with 4 layers o seamoon still looks 70% new after a year of play.

      Probably that's why national is more expensive.

      Passionate about TT

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    17. Top | #11
      SFF_lib is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by ajtatosmano2 View Post
      Boost them. Nationals are the best rubbers to boost.

      By the way, which booster is better for H3: Falco or Revolution XTreme?
      Haifu Seamoon the best. Specifically designed for Chinese rubbers.

      Passionate about TT

    18. Top | #12
      fxri is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by SFF_lib View Post
      My national H3 with 4 layers o seamoon still looks 70% new after a year of play.

      Probably that's why national is more expensive.

      Passionate about TT
      wow thats good for you, but one of my friend use h3 national blue sponge and he has the same experience as me after boosting his h3n

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    19. Top | #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by OhWell View Post
      - Making it harder for the booster to do its work isn't a mistake: that also makes it harder the booster to damage rubber, especially the bond between the topsheet and the sponge.

      - About whether the tuning layer is booster, speed glue like, etc. Boosters aren't (normally) adhesives. The tuning layer is adhesive. So saying that the tuning layer is booster would be inaccurate. It's also not just glue: you say yourself that it has a "speed glue" like effect.

      Speed glue is glue that also adds spin and speed to the rubber's performance. Booster does the latter without itself being adhesive. The semantic problem of what to call the factory applied layer on the neo, something that isn't has adhesive and boosting properties without being speed glue, isn't a very enticing rabbit hole. That's why there's no agreed upon term for whatever is in that layer. We could call it adhesive with boosting effect that isn't speed glue but that doesn't roll off the tongue..

      If you are interested, this article does a nice job of explaining much of what these substances do to the sponge: https://thoughtsontabletennis.wordpr...nis-chemistry/
      I wouldn't describe putting a layer of glue on prior to boosting as a mistake and I'm sure in almost all cases outside of H3 NEO National, this applies; however, the DHS rep. stated that there wasn't a need to apply an additional layer of glue for the purposes of boost and when you combine the layer of 'tuner' (It's an adhesive that provides additional spin, control and power QED 'speed glue'...) with an additional layer of WBG then I do believe there would be a difference in how the rubber plays.

    20. Top | #14
      MaLongSenpai is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by SFF_lib View Post
      Haifu Seamoon the best. Specifically designed for Chinese rubbers.

      Passionate about TT
      Haifu SeaMoon isn't actually specifically designed for Chinese rubbers, it's just a Chinese booster that was made to be used in China (and given that everyone uses H3...you see where I'm going with this). I will refer you to my earlier statement about the fact that all boosters have varying effects of the rubbers, no one is the same and to replicate the feel and power of a rubber that has been heavily boosted with Haifu oil (not seamoon, I'm talking about the REAL shit) FLB was the best choice, but for the majority of players who don't have a photo of Ma Long in their downstairs toilet, Haifu SeaMoon is probably a good middle ground for use with Euro and Chinese rubbers.

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    22. Top | #15
      Suga D is offline
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      Carl is right.
      Falco is good
      Seamoon is better.
      Haifu Black Oil is the Killer!!!
      The sheezy ma neezy!!
      Tha shankle ma nankle!!
      Here's what i'm talking 'bout

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    24. Top | #16
      MaLongSenpai is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      I have heard that Haifu SeaMoon and Dianchi boosters are better than Falco for H3 and I have heard that Haifu Oil is better than either of those.


      Haifu oil, the actual stuff (it's referred to as Haifu 'National' oil) is basically the equivalent of ducks teeth. If you live in the UK you can basically just resign yourself to the fact that you CANNOT obtain this oil. Dianchi is a common oil, but compared to SeaMoon it has a low viscosity. It's this Haifu oil that the CNT use and it's a good deal thicker than SeaMoon and a lot thicker than Dianchi. As a result, (I considered quite literally every booster available to me) I went with FLB; not only because the results mirror these Chinese oils but also because, after some pretty extensive digging across multiple forums, it became apparent that (and this is from the words of Chinese players themselves) unless you can get the OG Haifu oil then FLB is the best as it's in the middle ground in terms of viscosity and can replicate the feel and spin of a rubber boosted by a CNT player, especially on National rubbers which apparently respond better to FLB than Dianchi, which (again, according to the information I collated) is because Dianchi (due to low viscosity) is better used on European rubbers with a softer sponge (that's not to say it can't be used on H3, but apparently FLB yields better results). Naturally, it's what the individual player prefers to use more than anything else and given my goal was to replicate


      TL;DR If you have a bottle of OG Haifu...I am ****ing coming for you.

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    26. Top | #17
      MaLongSenpai is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Suga D View Post
      Carl is right.
      Falco is good
      Seamoon is better.
      Haifu Black Oil is the Killer!!!
      The sheezy ma neezy!!
      Tha shankle ma nankle!!
      Here's what i'm talking 'bout

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      Damn straight but there is no way I will be making the effort to try and get some of that any time soon but I'd love to know where you got that, I understand the only place to get it reliably is physically in China or Hong Kong.
      As for general use, despite my comments regarding viscosity (which, when boosting provincial and especially commercial is a huge plus as it gets the rubber much closer to the consistency of a boosted national rubber) SeaMoon is probably the most readily available and the easiest to use. I did consider going for SeaMoon oil and I liked what I heard but it wouldn't provide the experience I was looking for from my booster (re: earlier comments regarding my desire to replicate the feeling of a processional tier rubber which is why I bought National in the first place).

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    28. Top | #18
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Suga D View Post
      Carl is right.
      Falco is good
      Seamoon is better.
      Haifu Black Oil is the Killer!!!
      The sheezy ma neezy!!
      Tha shankle ma nankle!!
      Here's what i'm talking 'bout

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      That is a thing of beauty.


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    30. Top | #19
      SFF_lib is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by MaLongSenpai View Post
      In the absence of swift response I did some digging and, as it turns out, the factory 'tuning' layer is basically a loss in translation. About 1-2 years ago, a representative from DHS did a Q&A and stated that the tuning layer isn't booster but is in fact a layer of something similar to speed glue that would allow for someone to walk into a TT shop in China, buy the 'tuned' rubber and just slap it on the blade - boosting is still necessary.
      I also discovered that this tuning layer means that, unless the rubber has been used before (In my case, these rubbers are brand new) there is no need to apply a base layer of glue before boosting - in actual fact, anyone familiar with the concept of glue would assume that applying an extra layer of glue on top of the 'tuner' would mean that it's harder for the booster to seep into the sponge and do it's job. I am in the process of applying the Falco booster as we speak, I have done two middling layers ready for a slightly thicker layer on the FH rubber given it's degree but I will be putting a slightly thinner layer on the BH given that is only a 37 degree rubber. Regardless, thank you for your help!
      Before putting applying booster, leave the rubber to air dry for like a day. Once the glue layer is dry, the sponge will react to booster better.

      The other thing to take into account is the sponge hardness and your blade.

      For example, if you put a 41 Neo H3N on a soft Stiga OC, i would suggest against any boosting as boosting will soften the sponge making the setup too soft.

      But if you put the same 41 H3N on a fast carbon blade, I would suggest at least three layers of booster.

      And if your FH H3N is 39 degree, you probably just want to put a single layer of booster.

      Just some examples.

      Passionate about TT

    31. Top | #20
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      After taking the rubber out of the pavket which wasn't what I was expecting at all by the way, I did wait for the super sticky glue layer to dry for about 2/3 hours and it seemed fine, it wasnt sticky at all

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