Chinese Pro Equipment - Rubbers and Blades

ajtatosmano2 · Dec 30, 2017

RidTheKid said:
Ma Longs rubbers are definitely thicker than 4 mm, compare them to the 6 mm thick blade.

It seems around 4mm for me...look at the side, where you can clearly see the thickness.

Tony's Table Tennis · Dec 30, 2017

G_ZHANG said:
The top ply is normally at least 0.5mm.. to sand down 0.1mm is a 0.1mm advantage in sponge thickness. For pro players, 4.1mm and 4.0mm may be a notable difference in shot quality.

For pictures, this blade is claimed that it was used by Mu Zi

So is this one used by a provincial player
The lower half was sand down. you can see the difference in colour.

For provincial games, the test is not very strict.
For national games, it is quite strict.

I think I will find my YE from 20+ years ago (when I trained 35 hours a week)
The area where rubber goes on is clean clean clean
the handle area is dark dark dark
Maybe I can post that online and say that is Wang Hao's blade that is sanded down

I will speak to 3 other provincial coaches tomorrow and ask them how many players do this
Helongjiang already told me they don't

G_ZHANG · Dec 30, 2017

Tony's Table Tennis said:
I think I will find my YE of 20 years
The area where rubber goes on is clean clean clean
the handle area is dark dark dark
Maybe I can post that online and say that is Wang Hao's blade that is sanded down

I will speak to 3 other provincial coaches tomorrow and ask them how many players do this
Helongjiang already told me they don't

http://news.66wz.com/system/2009/09/28/101445066.shtml
if you can read chinese.

G_ZHANG · Dec 30, 2017

Tony's Table Tennis said:
I think I will find my YE from 20+ years ago (when I trained 35 hours a week)
The area where rubber goes on is clean clean clean
the handle area is dark dark dark
Maybe I can post that online and say that is Wang Hao's blade that is sanded down

I will speak to 3 other provincial coaches tomorrow and ask them how many players do this
Helongjiang already told me they don't

I've spent a lot of time on second hand equipment forum.
When you see enough people sell different blade which claims top ply sand down for passing tournament measurement.
You'll know this is more common than you think.
It might not for everyone, but there are certain number of players do this.

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 30, 2017

RidTheKid said:
My H3 BS is almost 4 mm boosted a year ago. Ma Longs is much thicker. Or are you suggesting that his rubbers are hardly boosted because the risk of getting caught?

The only thing I can see in this photo is that:

1) it looks like the rubbers overhang the edge of the blade a little.
2) that overhang creates a shadow that makes the sponge look thicker.
3) from a telephoto lens, I definitely cannot measure the thickness of the sponge, even if the image was 100%, precisely, the actual size.
4) telephoto lenses distort images that are zoomed in to that extent from that distance.
5) the play of light, dark and shadow make it impossible to tell for sure what you are seeing.

But if the racket was here and I could measure the sponge, the topsheet and the thickness of the whole rubber, and only then would we know.

[Edit: Oh, one more thing. From the photo, to me, looking closely, the rubbers look about the same thickness. How thick are they? I still can’t tell without then here for me to measure.]

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

RidTheKid · Dec 30, 2017

Just because it didn't happen in your world doesn't mean it didn't happen somewhere else

Maybe you still believe the 9/11 crap

Tony's Table Tennis said:
I think I will find my YE from 20+ years ago (when I trained 35 hours a week)
The area where rubber goes on is clean clean clean
the handle area is dark dark dark
Maybe I can post that online and say that is Wang Hao's blade that is sanded down

I will speak to 3 other provincial coaches tomorrow and ask them how many players do this
Helongjiang already told me they don't

RidTheKid · Dec 30, 2017

I own the same setup. As a matter of fact I have it right in front of me as we speak. My BS is aaaaalmost 4 mm, and was boosted in September 2016. My rubbers have never gotten the upward edges curl bc of heavy boosting the way ML's rubbers get. To make Ma Longs rubbers playable with 41-41.5 degree hardness you are required to boost with 3-4 layers to soften the sponge enough. But that also expands the sponge. Meaning Ma Longs rubbers have signs of heavy boosting and since it's Ma Long it was probably made very recent to this match to compare it to my rubber. Haifu Black oil effect is a few weeks and it wears off quite a bit. My guess, because that is the only thing anyone here can do, guess, is that ML's rubbers aren't completely legal. And who cares if they are or aren't.

UpSideDownCarl said:
The only thing I can see in this photo is that:

1) it looks like the rubbers overhang the edge of the blade a little.
2) that overhang creates a shadow that makes the sponge look thicker.
3) from a telephoto lens, I definitely cannot measure the thickness of the sponge, even if the image was 100%, precisely, the actual size.
4) telephoto lenses distort images that are zoomed in to that extent from that distance.
5) the play of light, dark and shadow make it impossible to tell for sure what you are seeing.

But if the racket was here and I could measure the sponge, the topsheet and the thickness of the whole rubber, and only then would we know.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 31, 2017

Yep. Who cares. All the top pros are boosting and boosting is actually against the rules as Fabian pointed out.

They all get away with rubbers that don’t comply with the rules. Even if the measuring device doesn’t catch it. But we cannot tell how thick the topsheet+sponge is without measuring.

So, none of this really matters.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

NextLevel · Dec 31, 2017

Christian Slate said:
What do you think about zlc and alc on hurricane 3 rubber? And can you give me your opinion for viscaria, freitas alc, timoboll zlc on that hurricane rubber? What its best for and what style suits that blade well? Example like viscaria suits fzd well because his attack style near the table etc.

It's a personal thing. People use Innerforce ZLC and Boll ZLC with Chinese rubber. It all depends on what you like. Zylon is more expensive and harder to cut so less people who don't like the blade as is buy it.

NextLevel · Dec 31, 2017

Tony's Table Tennis said:
I just thought I should comment on this
have you ever saw how umpires measure rubber thickness nowadays?

I'm not sure how sanding away would help - if you sand the area where it is measured, then 4mm will become 4mm+

Unless you are claiming that Ma Long sands away the area that the rubber goes on and risking an unbalanced blade

and how did you know Ma Long sands it, you got source or you just read it somewhere?

I saw FZD's blade, his one seems fine
The only ones I see sanding is Cpens, Wang Hao's blade is sanded for reasons nothing to do with tricking rubber measurement tools

Don't forget the thickness of the glue. It counts.

NextLevel · Dec 31, 2017

RidTheKid said:
Ma Longs rubbers are definitely thicker than 4 mm, compare them to the 6 mm thick blade.

Do better. Please. Photos distort small details too often for them to conclusively prove something like this.

Tony's Table Tennis · Dec 31, 2017

NextLevel said:
Do better. Please. Photos distort small details too often for them to conclusively prove something like this.

You may have just pissed off this kid
Just say its more than 4mm

btw, one of my mates got a freebie FZD H3 rubber
a fresh one
so fresh that FZD peel it off in front of my mate
Guess what, the blade logo is still on the rubber sponge
So much for FZD sanding off his blade to give extra space (if it was sanded off, the vis logo won't appear on the sponge)

oops, it is 5mm, don't upset the kid
Now he is linking me to 9/11 too....
waiting to see what else I am linked to lol

Baal · Dec 31, 2017

Fabian said:
A rule which is not enforceable does not mean it's a grey area. It's not allowed, ITTF made it pretty clear, any physical treatment, for example boosting, is forbidden, there are also plenty of statements by ITTF and its officials where they say that.

but yes, it does not really make a difference since today's boosters are not detectable.

What about treating your rubber with water to remove dust?

Tony's Table Tennis · Dec 31, 2017

UpSideDownCarl said:
Yep. Who cares. All the top pros are boosting and boosting is actually against the rules as Fabian pointed out.

They all get away with rubbers that don’t comply with the rules. Even if the measuring device doesn’t catch it. But we cannot tell how thick the topsheet+sponge is without measuring.

So, none of this really matters.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

yep, who cares
its a fact that pros do it, and ITTF will need to come up with something to police they own rules

on a umpires note
other than measuring the thickness and voc free etc
they also measure the blade/rubber to see if it is flat - they would measure both side.
to make it legal it can't be more than -.5mm.
So it does give some leeway for unbalance gluing etc

One thing I just thought of from this thread is that I will ask my IU friends to see how they measure the thickness of rubbers on a JPEN blade
We all know that the rubber area is indent in a bit from the rest of the blade

Tony's Table Tennis · Dec 31, 2017

Baal said:
What about treating your rubber with water to remove dust?

The only part I can think of is during racket control
they also check for "gloss" of the rubber surface

VOC sprays could fail the VOC free check

other than that, interfering and changing of the colour could fail the gloss check

Obviously water is fine for both, so it can't be illegal
I guess what ever doesn't make it illegal from the racket control table, ITTF can't prove anything

Baal · Dec 31, 2017

Rules say no chemical or physical treatment. Water is a chemical. So by strict interpretation of rule as it is written, illegal. Just pointing out how bad the rule is.

Tony's Table Tennis · Dec 31, 2017

Baal said:
Rules say no chemical or physical treatment. Water is a chemical. So by strict interpretation of rule as it is written, illegal. Just pointing out how bad the rule is.

That's why I say its a grey area
Because umpires even witness players putting on water+sodium chloride+potassium (this is also known as sweat)

Rómulus Teo · Dec 31, 2017

Chen Chen said:
I am happy to help you here if you have any questions about Chinese player's equipment. I will try my best and we can share knowledge together.

Is it true that Chinese rubbers give more effect? I saw a video of Mima ITO that gave impressions that yes.

RidTheKid · Jan 1, 2018

Am I linking you to 9/11..? You clearly need someone to read for you. Seriously. Or find help to look for your screws.

Tony's Table Tennis said:
You may have just pissed off this kid
Just say its more than 4mm

btw, one of my mates got a freebie FZD H3 rubber
a fresh one
so fresh that FZD peel it off in front of my mate
Guess what, the blade logo is still on the rubber sponge
So much for FZD sanding off his blade to give extra space (if it was sanded off, the vis logo won't appear on the sponge)

oops, it is 5mm, don't upset the kid
Now he is linking me to 9/11 too....
waiting to see what else I am linked to lol

RidTheKid · Jan 1, 2018

They should just let boosting be legal - problem solved. Everyone can do as he/she pleases.

Chinese Pro Equipment - Rubbers and Blades

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