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I was asked who was the European player that beat ML before this 2017 World Cup. And the answer is interesting and obvious. Timo Boll.
ML has lost to 4 European players so far.
Against Timo Boll, 4 losses (2005 Swedish Open semifinal 2-4, 2008 World Cup semifinal 3-4, 2010 WTTC Team final 2-3, 2017 World Cup semifinal 3-4) and 13 wins
Against Vladimir Samsonov, 5 losses (2005 German Open final 3-4, 2006 Croatia Open R16 3-4, 2007 Croatia Open final 0-4, 2008 Kuwait Open final 3-4, 2009 World Cup semifinal 3-4) and 7 wins
Against Petr Korbel, 1 loss (2006 Qatar Open R32 1-4) and 4 wins
Against Daniel Gorak, 1 loss (2006 Kuwait Open R64 2-4) and 0 win
In addition to Timo Boll and Vladimir Samsonov, only three more non-CNT players beat ML more than once, Oh Sangeun (2005 Grand Finals semifinal 4-1 and 2007 Korea Open final 4-0; ML beat him 8 times), Joo Saehyuk (2007 WTTC R16 4-2 and 2009 China vs. World Team 3-1; ML beat him15 times) and Chuang Chihyuan (2006 Singapore Open final 4-2 and 2012 World Cup group stage 4-0; ML beat him 14 times).
ML said Timo Boll is most difficult to play outside CNT. I think he meant it.
ML has lost to 4 European players so far.
Against Timo Boll, 4 losses (2005 Swedish Open semifinal 2-4, 2008 World Cup semifinal 3-4, 2010 WTTC Team final 2-3, 2017 World Cup semifinal 3-4) and 13 wins
Against Vladimir Samsonov, 5 losses (2005 German Open final 3-4, 2006 Croatia Open R16 3-4, 2007 Croatia Open final 0-4, 2008 Kuwait Open final 3-4, 2009 World Cup semifinal 3-4) and 7 wins
Against Petr Korbel, 1 loss (2006 Qatar Open R32 1-4) and 4 wins
Against Daniel Gorak, 1 loss (2006 Kuwait Open R64 2-4) and 0 win
In addition to Timo Boll and Vladimir Samsonov, only three more non-CNT players beat ML more than once, Oh Sangeun (2005 Grand Finals semifinal 4-1 and 2007 Korea Open final 4-0; ML beat him 8 times), Joo Saehyuk (2007 WTTC R16 4-2 and 2009 China vs. World Team 3-1; ML beat him15 times) and Chuang Chihyuan (2006 Singapore Open final 4-2 and 2012 World Cup group stage 4-0; ML beat him 14 times).
ML said Timo Boll is most difficult to play outside CNT. I think he meant it.
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ok, I will go back and make sure you have access.
Be...
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I can't see either Waldner or Boll throwing a match in a slam final no matter what people say on the internet. Actually Dima now and Persson back then were capable of beating anyone on a good day.
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I am not sure why people look down on Dima. He has beaten ZJK. Came close to beating FZD ( the ball crack match) . Also saw him troubling ML in a few matches. And he is still young. This could be his breakthrough year to the top actually.
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The sticky bit is stuck.
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The sticky bit is stuck.
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Timo Boll and Mizutani are also lacking a good forehand according to this standard, no?
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The sticky bit is stuck.
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The sticky bit is stuck.
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Rain, you are truly a gift to this forum. Thank you.
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Haha I have nothing to hide. I'll make sure to record next time I'm hitting a few balls.
Now show me yours.
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The sticky bit is stuck.
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The sticky bit is stuck.
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Great! And then I'll show you mine, and we can compare ours do Dima's and we'll reconsider whether or not his is any good, right?
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Mos def! And considering that Dima practices hours every day I'd say I'm not very impressed with his fh The chinese on the other hand, you can clearly see where all the hours have gone to.
The chinese on the other hand, you can clearly see where all the hours have gone to.Great! And then I'll show you mine, and we can compare ours do Dima's and we'll reconsider whether or not his is any good, right?
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Spin and more spin.
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Spin and more spin.
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Great! And then I'll show you mine, and we can compare ours do Dima's and we'll reconsider whether or not his is any good, right?
Okay. I know you are being funny. But.....Comparing a decent amateur FH to a top 10 pro FH, well, it is hard for me to imagine a scenario where the comparison should not be favorable: maybe Archo....otherwise, I am going to say, if the form looks decent, it would compare favorably. At least from my perspective.
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In any case, Dima is sometimes an enigma. He sometimes plays really well. And he sometimes gets eliminated from tournaments by people you would never expect. I have to admit, I don't want to dislike Dima. But I don't really like him. I try to like him and can't quite. It is not like the CNT players who I wish I didn't like, but I have to admit that I like FZD, I like XX. Ma Long....he is too good. I hope for him to lose all the time. But I still can't quite dislike him. I can't help it. ZJK, he used to make me angry. When he was on top, I hated his attitude. It was terrible. Still, it was kind of hard to not like him even if I also really could not stand him. Now that he has not played well for so long, I don't dislike him as much. Hahahaha.
But for some reason, I always feel that there is something about Dima and how he plays that does not really appeal to my sensibilities even if I really would like to like him.
I really would love it if Calderano, Dyjas, Aruna, Sangsu, Apolonia, Freitas....someone....could step up to Dima's level. But, inconsistent or not, Dima is ranked #4 for a reason. He and Mizutani have been better than anyone outside of the CNT more consistently for the last several years. I would have to give that to him.
And since we can't make Samsonov 24 years old again, Go Dima! He is the man.
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Most of these losses happened before 2010. So when we say there were people who could beat him multiple times we are speaking about an incomplete ML.
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Spin and more spin.
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Spin and more spin.
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I guess the issue to look for in the upcoming years is, when it starts happening that ML begins having more frequent loses.
At this point it is only fair to look at this loss as just an anomaly in the midst of years and years of excellence.
But when losses like this start becoming more commonplace, then, perhaps it will mean something more.
Ma Long’s reign of dominance and excellence really has been longer than usual.
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At this point it is only fair to look at this loss as just an anomaly in the midst of years and years of excellence.
But when losses like this start becoming more commonplace, then, perhaps it will mean something more.
Ma Long’s reign of dominance and excellence really has been longer than usual.
Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
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Are there anything in common among Timo, Samsonov and CCY who beat ML multiple times? ML played with Dima for 14 times and won all; what can Dima learn from them and can he have a chance to beat ML in the future?
It reminds me of previous discussions of "old school style", banana flip everything trend and control vs. power. IMO, Timo, Samsonov and CCY don't outpower ML and they are good at short balls and placements - they play smart. Dima outpowers ML but never outsmarts ML.
WH said ML's first three ball was affected by the new ball and bad serve receives led to a disruption of ML's tactic plan. Maybe he exaggerated but if you watched the other matches in World Cup, ML also did not receive well of Omar Assar and Simon Gauzy's serves. Controlling first three ball is still important nowadays.
It reminds me of previous discussions of "old school style", banana flip everything trend and control vs. power. IMO, Timo, Samsonov and CCY don't outpower ML and they are good at short balls and placements - they play smart. Dima outpowers ML but never outsmarts ML.
WH said ML's first three ball was affected by the new ball and bad serve receives led to a disruption of ML's tactic plan. Maybe he exaggerated but if you watched the other matches in World Cup, ML also did not receive well of Omar Assar and Simon Gauzy's serves. Controlling first three ball is still important nowadays.
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Spin and more spin.
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Spin and more spin.
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A loss that I don’t think showed up in rainneverever’s stats but was a giant loss for ML was when he got taken down by Koki Niwa in the finals of the first round of the Asian Olympic Qualification tournament in 2012.
That may have been ML’s worst international loss. Because what was on the line was his position for the Olympic TEAM spot. And it did not look good that he could not handle the pressure of that big moment.
The only loss that really looked not so good for him after that and until this loss to Timo was his loss to Wang Hao in the 2013 WTTC Semifinals. At least it is the only one I can think of right now.
Between his loss to Timo and his loss to Wang Hao ML has been simply amazing.
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That may have been ML’s worst international loss. Because what was on the line was his position for the Olympic TEAM spot. And it did not look good that he could not handle the pressure of that big moment.
The only loss that really looked not so good for him after that and until this loss to Timo was his loss to Wang Hao in the 2013 WTTC Semifinals. At least it is the only one I can think of right now.
Between his loss to Timo and his loss to Wang Hao ML has been simply amazing.
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Carl, I think I made it clear. I listed 5 non-CNT players who beat ML more than once. Yes, Koki Niwa beat ML in 2012; they played 10 times and Niwa won only once 5 years ago. I did not hide anything.
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The real issue is not just to beat ML. The hopeful champ and team must also beat the other formidable foes like XX, FZD, who even have much better records against their foreigners than ML.
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