Comment on this Kim Jung Hoon BH Loop Vid

says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
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I am not going to provide much of a gisting of this vid right away, I would like TTD members to look at the vid NOT understanding much of what KJH is saying, but look at what he is doing and discuss some keys to success.

This vid covers how to make an opening spin loop vs an incoming underspin ball. KJH covers the more aggressive fast loop vs underspin in the next vid on his site, maybe I cover that one too... later.

For now, sound off on what is a "Take Home" nugget for you based on what we see in the vid...

Then later I will chime in on what he says and stresses... so we can compare notes.

Have at it.

 
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I think he says that rather than a full topspin motion you should explode in a quick powerful rotation around the elbow. The blade should point towards the floor rather than your body . The waist should be rotated inwards so you can use that built up tension to increase the power
 
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He talked a lot :D
I can't understand a thing. But here's what I saw from his demonstration and my experience:

Don't use too much shoulder (drag up the whole arm)
Don't let your body move too much (up and backward)
Don't start the swing from the side.
Swing upward with your forearm (from the elbow), racket points down at the start and point up at the end.
Use power from your legs and body but need to keep it short and explosive, keep your body firm and balance.

Please correct me.

My BH is pretty good, but sometimes not consistent enough because I have random unnecessary motions and sometimes my body moves too much during the shot.
 
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He talked a lot :D
I can't understand a thing. But here's what I saw from his demonstration and my experience:

Don't use too much shoulder (drag up the whole arm) He was emphasizing not to drag your elbow and upper arm to the side during the stroke. Make elbow position relatively, but not entirely stable)
Don't let your body move too much (up and backward) He was emphasizing not to rock backwards with the upper body during the stroke. Move from down to forward (really up and forward) to finish on balance ready to reset. (Also makes a better power transfer at impact)
Don't start the swing from the side. KJH was demonstrating that the more powerful versions of the BH stroke (the power drive) use that start position (often against topspin) He said that to build up to that stroke, but recommends learning the heavy slow BH loop vs underspin first
Swing upward with your forearm (from the elbow), racket points down at the start and point up at the end. He was emphasizing to immediately achieve and maintain the proper bat angle on the back swing and throughout the stroke. His point was that although possible, it is difficult to consistently achieve the right bat angle at impact - amatures do this a lot and it is one of the reasons they hit the side of their bat during the stroke
Use power from your legs and body but need to keep it short and explosive, keep your body firm and balance. KJH later in the vid expressed that to overcome the spin on the ball, you have to generate force - this is done by getting low and exploding up and forward. Just look at KJH hips relative to the table top height... both before the preparation and his lowest point before he explodes up and forward... the top of his hips are well below the table top level. When Der_Echte shows a player how to generate force on a BH loop, he always uses the top of hips getting below the table as an easy reference point to get hips low enough to create the leg bend and hip turn required to overpower the spin on the ball and make heavy spin. KJH emphasizes that although not having the proper chain of muscle explosions or not using the optimal swing plane... it is still possible to land the ball, maybe even consistently, but the result will be a weak ball - not very heavy spin.

Please correct me. I made comments in bold in your quote.

My BH is pretty good, but sometimes not consistent enough because I have random unnecessary motions and sometimes my body moves too much during the shot.

immaru, until I see you in action, I will never know, but that isn't so important, what is important is that I would have to see you in action to observe your base stroke for efficiency, power transfer and quality of resultant ball. A lot of us THINK we have a good BH (I also believe I have a many great BH shots, but match reality may differ)...) but often, in a match, we have things going on that kill our efficiency, like not being in position, not expecting the ball to come to BH, not having knees bent and ready when opponent touches ball, having poor FH to BH transition or BH to FH...

I could go on about what many coaches would consider very basic fundamental things we must do... but truth is we amatures mess them up a LOT... and it hurts the consistency and quality of our shot.

Maybe I ought to start another thread about how to keep a certain shot high quality in a match... might lead to good discussions and better insight for us amature players.
 
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says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
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I think he says that rather than a full topspin motion you should explode in a quick powerful rotation around the elbow. The blade should point towards the floor rather than your body . The waist should be rotated inwards so you can use that built up tension to increase the power

Garrison,

KJH emphasized to get the elbow in a relatively fixed proper position (to side and a little front) and the stroke uses that lever rotating on the elbow joint (instead of dragging elbow to side using shoulder or trying to pivot off the shoulder joint.

10 points for good answer while knowing little Korean.

When KJH was talking about the blade, yes he stated that vs underspin, during the down swing preparation, the blade wil go towards the floor, not the hip. Yes, true. However the big point he was trying to make was about the angle of the blade face. If you take it to the hip or make the angle of the blade face greatly different that what it will be at impact, then it will be very difficult to make the proper and consistent timing to get the blade face angle just right at impact. He said many amatures do this and it kills their consistency... or at least makes it much more difficult than it should be.

10 points for catching this and bringing it up for discussion.

When KJH talks about base position, he emphasized a semi wide stance. Why? to keep balance, wide platform still allows knees to bend and waist to turn, but it keeps balance and leverage. He says that one doesn't need crazy hip turn as indicated by knees, but there is a proper amount and the stance allowing some knee bend and leg turn is essential. He didn't really say to pre-load the hips to the max... simply get down, then explode up going forward. It is a very simple technique with not so many moving parts or inefficiencies. Maybe not the only way, but I think a very sound way.

Bonus points for creating discussion.

You get a top score despite knowing little Korean. :D

I deliberately held back gisting the vid to see what visuals the members get and also to get members to discuss what they feel is important. Discussing these things is big-time important as we learn and develop our games. TT forums like TTD really facilitate this... 20-30 years ago, we would have to hire top secret coaches and fund them with little know top secret govt black ops money... and have a personal contact list larger than that of field operatives of KGB... TT forums are great stuff.
 
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It might be a little unfair asking TTD members to watch a vid in a language that doesn't compute to them... also, to mess things up, KJH ALWAYS demonstrates EFFICIENT...and often POOR technique all in the same minute.

That can make it rough on people, but I think he gives enough body cues to have you all be able to sort that out.
 
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Thank you Der_Echte senpai! Or seonbae in korean? (tried to look that up)

Anyone may freely refer to me as Trouble Maker or Joker. My screen name of Der_Echte is a shortened version of Der Echte Joker. I was a joker before the batman joker was doing hiz thing... well at least I was decades before the internet.
 
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There is one thing he emphasized over and over again, in this vid and pretty much all his vids... is that at impact and stroke, you should feel like you are catching the ball and throwing it out (with spin, or speed or both or touch)

No one really gunna get that one unless you know Korean.

If one watches enough KJH vids and catches his key points, you really learn a lot about fundamental and advanced table tennis... KJH is so direct to the point analyzes instantly an amature's game. There are always many "Nuggets" of information in every KJH vid that one can immediately apply to one's game.
 
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Great video. It made me think of Zhang Jike saying that "technique is mostly about the direction of power." In the vid I see KJK generating power from legs and core muscles, and focusing it into rotation around the elbow. He seems to be emphasizing efficiency by avoiding poor balance, incorrect bat angle, or pulling elbow off axis.
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
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Great video. It made me think of Zhang Jike saying that "technique is mostly about the direction of power." In the vid I see KJK generating power from legs and core muscles, and focusing it into rotation around the elbow. He seems to be emphasizing efficiency by avoiding poor balance, incorrect bat angle, or pulling elbow off axis.

Those are 3-4 of the biggest things he talked about. I should make a summary of the key points that were numbered 1 through whatever...
 
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The big eight things he said that had the caption in the vid are...

1) It all starts with legs, go down and up/forward. Bend down a little more and twist a little to generate extra power (spin)

2) Keep blade face angle the SAME throughout the backswing and swing.

3) Don't drag your elbow and arm to the side during the stroke, keep elbow in same spot, it will move to side only a little as you rotate on elbow joint.

4) On backswing, bring bat straight down.

5) Don't allow yourself to rock upper body backwards. Stop the rocking or moving up right at impact.

6) Use movement of free hand to help channel force to impact.

7) Wait for the ball whenever possible, even if it is low, you can always make spin and land it. If ball is a very fast push, accelerate your timing and deal with the ball, don't wait on that one. You can use the space between how far you normally impact away from body and a few inches away form body as a buffer zone to adjust for a fast ball too.

8... Go straight down on backswing. Don't do any wavy up down movement before making backswing... it is a waste of efficiency and timing. Useless to helping you land the ball.
 
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Thanks for this! I’ve seen his videos posted on here before (pretty sure it was from you) and I’ve saved several on my YouTube from him. His backhand ones are especially good. Really appreciate the further understanding and discussion around what he’s saying!

Also I would very much like to see the ‘keep a certain shot high quality in a match’ topic as well.


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