German Open 2017

Atas Newton · Nov 12, 2017

RidTheKid said:
Lets say no one in the world has seen Dima playing this well like in this tournament. Don't tell me you knew because that would be a lie. Dima has never showed this composure before. So this is new.

agree, this is Dima's new peak form. The WTGF will be very interesting this year.

Suga D · Nov 12, 2017

Atas Newton said:
chinese men right now (replace money with Olympic and WTTC golds):

Hahahaha
[Emoji23]
That's some sore looser talk.

I was told jealousy and hatred are one of the highest forms of acknowledgement!

Looks like someone must be very jealous if one just can't admit that Timo and Dima also have been playing exceptionally well lately!

RidTheKid · Nov 12, 2017

They sure are on fire, but since everyone is surprised that also says a lot.

Suga D said:
Hahahaha
[Emoji23]
That's some sore looser talk.

I was told jealousy and hatred are one of the highest forms of acknowledgement!

Looks like someone must be very jealous if one just can't admit that Timo and Dima also have been playing exceptionally well lately!

Atas Newton · Nov 12, 2017

Suga D said:
Hahahaha
[Emoji23]
That's some sore looser talk.

I was told jealousy and hatred are one of the highest forms of acknowledgement!

Looks like someone must be very jealous if one just can't admit that Timo and Dima also have been playing exceptionally well lately!

talk about jealousy and hatred. Wtf are you on about man? I'm taking the piss replying to an obvious CNT hater, calling him out and here you come all guns blazing trying to mock me for it? Maybe try to get rid of the hatred you're seeing in others? Calling me a sore loser, how am I a loser in this situation? Jesus. I don't acknowledge Timo and Dima? Like, try reading my other posts?

p.s.: I mean to even mention jealousy while celebrating chinese being eliminated from an arguably lesser torunament, sweet irony.

Cornel · Nov 12, 2017

I love how Lee Sangsu was smiling throughout the match and in the end at how Timo was beating him. You could also see the Korean coach was nervously shaking his legs in despair between points.

Sali · Nov 12, 2017

Atas Newton said:
talk about jealosy and hatred. Wtf are you on about man? I'm taking the piss replying to an obvious CNT hater, calling him out and here you come all guns blazing trying to mock me for it? Maybe try to get rid of the hatred you're seeing in others? Calling me a sore loser, how am I a loser in this situation? Jesus.

p.s.: I mean to even mention jealosy while celebrating chinese being eliminated from an arguably lesser torunament, sweet irony.

Who is CNT hater - definitely not me. I just wish to TT be more competitive and I do not like when someone tell stories and giving excuses aster he lost.
I admire CNT hard work and it must pay off, but on the other hand it is equipment and illegal boosting.
And esecially because it is China. Thay always used their equipment (rubbers) which is not possible to buy to have better guns. Many years ago it was claimed by Boll, Mizuitani and Freitas who used Tenergy which you can buy in a shop.
So now those who make excuses for different ball the are used to is completely stupid and unfair.

Suga D · Nov 12, 2017

Atas Newton said:
talk about jealousy and hatred. Wtf are you on about man? I'm taking the piss replying to an obvious CNT hater, calling him out and here you come all guns blazing trying to mock me for it? Maybe try to get rid of the hatred you're seeing in others? Calling me a sore loser, how am I a loser in this situation? Jesus. I don't acknowledge Timo and Dima? Like, try reading my other posts?

p.s.: I mean to even mention jealousy while celebrating chinese being eliminated from an arguably lesser torunament, sweet irony.

So now you try belittleling this tournament here?? Quite predictable!!
[Emoji23]

That's just ridiculous. Of course many are surprised!

How long hasn't something like this happened?
Maybe i got you totally wrong, but it seems to be too much for some to see that CNT aren't Gods and are still humans and can't take it when others win. Especially not us Germans!! NOT AGAINST THE TT GODS!!

If you want to be taken seriously you should just stop right there!

See, after the world cup many hateful comments were made (especially from PNut) that it just was luck and Ma Long just had a bad day. Now FZD, ZJK and XX also show signs of humanity and y'all keep blaming everything on the balls.

And definitely I'm still a fan of Ma Long and CNT. I still keep my W968 which i've bought after Ma Long winning the Grand Slam. So CNT hater doesn't really fit the describtion, don'tcha think?
But a few months ago no one would have thought this could be possible...

Is it so hard seeing others celebrating?

WorkerBee · Nov 12, 2017

The players at the German Open have all played insanely wonderful table tennis to a person. So many close games!!! So many game raising displays!!!! Table Tennis got a real shot in the arm from the players and coaches this week. I hope these games can be watched by as many as possible. The tournament coverage was some of the best ever. Adam's commentary was excellent. I would love to see a bunch of followup interviews and living room discussions with players and coaches, and with club players around the world. to make the game more accessible and understood.

Atas Newton · Nov 12, 2017

Suga D said:
So now you try belittleling this tournament here?? Quite predictable!!

Suga D said:
[Emoji23]

That's just ridiculous. Of course many are surprised!

How long hasn't something like this happened?
Maybe i got you totally wrong, but it seems to be too much for some to see that CNT aren't Gods and are still humans and can't take it when others win. Especially not us Germans!! NOT AGAINST THE TT GODS!!

If you want to be taken seriously you should just stop right there!

See, after the world cup many hateful comments were made (especially from PNut) that it just was luck and Ma Long just had a bad day. Now FZD, ZJK and XX also show signs of humanity and y'all keep blaming everything on the balls.

And definitely I'm still a fan of Ma Long and CNT. I still keep my W968 which i've bought after Ma Long winning the Grand Slam. So CNT hater doesn't really fit the describtion, don'tcha think?
But a few months ago no one would have thought this could be possible...

Is it so hard seeing others celebrating?

so let me get this straight: you don't like it when professionals blame the balls, but when a guy says "hey I'm totally not a hater, but these chinese are surely helped by illegal boosting and secret rubbers!" you like his post? Says it all really. Belittling German Open? When I say it doesn't compare with Worlds and Olympics? Get a reality check.

Sali · Nov 12, 2017

Atas Newton said:
so let me get this straight

Atas Newton said:
: you don't likeit when professionals blame the balls, but when a guy says "hey I'mtotally not a hater, but these chinese are surely helped by illegal boostingand secret rubbers!" you like his post? Says it all really. BelittlingGerman Open? When I say it doesn't compare with Worlds and Olympics? Get areality check.

Define hater.If I share with you what I am watching themost on youtube it is china matches,warming up, training sessions. I admirehard work and speed. But if someone is tryingto have extra weapon I just do notlikeit, does not matter if it is legal or not. In my opinion it does not makeme ahater.
On theother hand I just do not understand how someone canbe so blind. For about twoyears the world is chasing china and it is visible withthe scores. I rememberSamsonov saying it is hard to win a single game with MaLong. Most of MLmatches ended with the score 11:4, 11:5 etc. For about twoyears it started tochanging. XX who had the best ranking against foreignersstarted losing. ZJKwho most of the time is injured is very poor for quite longtime. And China donot have new talent like FZD, who when appeared crushed allopponents.
So it allcome to this moment when finally world catch thechina which is good for thesport. IMO the main reason is the LGL missing whowas great at the crucialmoments and players relied on him. I do not think thatWH has such power ofinspiring.

Suga D · Nov 12, 2017

Atas Newton said:
so let me get this straight: you don't like it when professionals complain about tha balls, but when a guy says "hey I'm totally not a hater, but these chinese are surely helped by illegal boosting and secret rubbers!" you like his post? Says it all really. Belittling German Open? When I say it doesn't compare with Worlds and Olympics? Get a reality check.

Ok. Here we go.

Reality check:
Of course it's not the Olympics, the WTTC or the WORLDCUP (no one said so), but it IS a Platinum world tour tournament with a line up of players that is said to be one of the hardest and toughest lately and quite important for qualification to the Grand finals!

And the chinese success isn't relying on boosting only. That was exaggeration (in fact Boll said in an interview a while ago that he estimates 80% of the pros are boosting. All pros. Not only the Chinese)

But i think Bolls victory over Ma Long at the WC has shown others that Chinese are beatable and has given the world a (very long awaited) confidence boost.

It seems many people got bored to watch all chinese finals on tournament sundays.

So all in all, being less predictable might be good for the sport itself.

IIRC LGL spoke in an interview that total chinese dominance for such a long time isn't very good for the sport.
I think he also warned that if it continues government might pull out money and investments. Maybe this is what we're seeing right now.
Of course the preparation for world tour events was always different compared to Olympics (Marvellous twelve competition)
But Liu Guoliang always had some competitive playoffs and made players bring out their best.
Now without him CNT looks a bit headless.

Enough reality?

RidTheKid · Nov 12, 2017

You should be able to see a pattern when all chinese start losing after LGL was forced out of position. Ma Longs injury has nothing to do with that but with LGL in the corner? Who knows what would've happened. I think there seem to pop up a lot of "anti-CNT" fanboys suddenly and even some hubris from yourself. People who just seem to hate the chinese, the hardest working people on this planet. But all of a sudden you seem to hail Germany as the greatest nation of TT? Get a grip

Suga D said:
So now you try belittleling this tournament here?? Quite predictable!!
[Emoji23]

That's just ridiculous. Of course many are surprised!

How long hasn't something like this happened?
Maybe i got you totally wrong, but it seems to be too much for some to see that CNT aren't Gods and are still humans and can't take it when others win. Especially not us Germans!! NOT AGAINST THE TT GODS!!

If you want to be taken seriously you should just stop right there!

See, after the world cup many hateful comments were made (especially from PNut) that it just was luck and Ma Long just had a bad day. Now FZD, ZJK and XX also show signs of humanity and y'all keep blaming everything on the balls.

And definitely I'm still a fan of Ma Long and CNT. I still keep my W968 which i've bought after Ma Long winning the Grand Slam. So CNT hater doesn't really fit the describtion, don'tcha think?
But a few months ago no one would have thought this could be possible...

Is it so hard seeing others celebrating?

RidTheKid · Nov 12, 2017

Adams commentary is/was seriously irritating and biased. He kept talking about nonsense things like the mascot in the stands instead of dissecting the game thoroughly, which IS his job. He's this "surfer type dude" who always tries to be a funny person instead of actually providing much depth, only giving shallow observations that anyone can see.

WorkerBee said:
The players at the German Open have all played insanely wonderful table tennis to a person. So many close games!!! So many game raising displays!!!! Table Tennis got a real shot in the arm from the players and coaches this week. I hope these games can be watched by as many as possible. The tournament coverage was some of the best ever. Adam's commentary was excellent. I would love to see a bunch of followup interviews and living room discussions with players and coaches, and with club players around the world. to make the game more accessible and understood.

RidTheKid · Nov 12, 2017

I agree with it being good for the sport, but also take into account WHY things have changed, and you touched on that subject a little which is good. What is NOT good for the sport is all the people airing their hate. To all the haters: If you feel those hateful opinions forming in your head, go out for a jog.

Sali said:
Define hater.If I share with you what I am watching themost on youtube it is china matches,warming up, training sessions. I admirehard work and speed. But if someone is tryingto have extra weapon I just do notlikeit, does not matter if it is legal or not. In my opinion it does not makeme ahater.
On theother hand I just do not understand how someone canbe so blind. For about twoyears the world is chasing china and it is visible withthe scores. I rememberSamsonov saying it is hard to win a single game with MaLong. Most of MLmatches ended with the score 11:4, 11:5 etc. For about twoyears it started tochanging. XX who had the best ranking against foreignersstarted losing. ZJKwho most of the time is injured is very poor for quite longtime. And China donot have new talent like FZD, who when appeared crushed allopponents.
So it allcome to this moment when finally world catch thechina which is good for thesport. IMO the main reason is the LGL missing whowas great at the crucialmoments and players relied on him. I do not think thatWH has such power ofinspiring.

RidTheKid · Nov 12, 2017

Good post. There is also speculation that China is putting much more money into football since it generates more cash worldwide, therefore maybe sacrificing some ambition in TT.

Suga D said:
Ok. Here we go.

Reality check:
Of course it's not the Olympics, the WTTC or the WORLDCUP (no one said so), but it IS a Platinum world tour tournament with a line up of players that is said to be one of the hardest and toughest lately and quite important for qualification to the Grand finals!

And the chinese success isn't relying on boosting only. That was exaggeration (in fact Boll said in an interview a while ago that he estimates 80% of the pros are boosting. All pros. Not only the Chinese)

But i think Bolls victory over Ma Long at the WC has shown others that Chinese are beatable and has given the world a (very long awaited) confidence boost.

It seems many people got bored to watch all chinese finals on tournament sundays.

So all in all, being less predictable might be good for the sport itself.

IIRC LGL spoke in an interview that total chinese dominance for such a long time isn't very good for the sport.
I think he also warned that if it continues government might pull out money and investments. Maybe this is what we're seeing right now.
Of course the preparation for world tour events was always different compared to Olympics (Marvellous twelve competition)
But Liu Guoliang always had some competitive playoffs and made players bring out their best.
Now without him CNT looks a bit headless.

Enough reality?

Atas Newton · Nov 12, 2017

Suga D said:
Ok. Here we go.

Reality check:
Of course it's not the Olympics, the WTTC or the WORLDCUP (no one said so), but it IS a Platinum world tour tournament with a line up of players that is said to be one of the hardest and toughest lately and quite important for qualification to the Grand finals!

And the chinese success isn't relying on boosting only. That was exaggeration (in fact Boll said in an interview a while ago that he estimates 80% of the pros are boosting. All pros. Not only the Chinese)

But i think Bolls victory over Ma Long at the WC has shown others that Chinese are beatable and has given the world a (very long awaited) confidence boost.

It seems many people got bored to watch all chinese finals on tournament sundays.

So all in all, being less predictable might be good for the sport itself.

IIRC LGL spoke in an interview that total chinese dominance for such a long time isn't very good for the sport.
I think he also warned that if it continues government might pull out money and investments. Maybe this is what we're seeing right now.
Of course the preparation for world tour events was always different compared to Olympics (Marvellous twelve competition)
But Liu Guoliang always had some competitive playoffs and made players bring out their best.
Now without him CNT looks a bit headless.

Enough reality?

now this is a completely reasonable post without insulting anyone so props for that. However I'm not sure if there's anything to discuss between us two. I agree with all the points more or less, I never claimed chinese dominance was healthy for the sport. Instead I suggest not to declare its end based on 2 tournaments over the span of a month. Regarding the event status, there's 6 Platinum events a year so it's nowhere near the level of prestige of the majors. Hell, ZJK had zero preparation but didn't seem to give a toss. Could you imagine him doing that in a WTTC? Me neither.

Objectively speaking the one match that matters was Dima > FZD, but it's still just a single match. Cool your boots with the regime change, we'll have to see. Dima's not young, can he keep this form? For how long? Timo's win vs LGY was impressive, but LGY appears to be in a psychological slump after XX's and Timo's miraculous comebacks against him. XX himself is in the worst shape in years so whitewashing by LSS was no surprise.

Garrison · Nov 12, 2017

Overtime in mens doubles! What a finish by Jeoung and Lee in set 4. Let's hope for a great match between Timo and Dima. I want to see Timo choing, in Liege it looked like he almost granted Dima

UpSideDownCarl · Nov 12, 2017

Now, to me, it seems that it is hard to argue with the idea that something is wrong with the whole CNT at the moment.

--Is this the fallout from their inactivity after protesting at the China Open?

--Is this the result of the changes the Chinese government made to the CNT coaching staff?

--Did those incidents affect the mental games of the top CNT players, affect their focus and/or resolve?

Sali · Nov 12, 2017

Suga D said:
Ok. Here we go.

Reality check:
Of course it's not the Olympics, the WTTC or the WORLDCUP (no one said so), but it IS a Platinum world tour tournament with a line up of players that is said to be one of the hardest and toughest lately and quite important for qualification to the Grand finals!

And the chinese success isn't relying on boosting only. That was exaggeration (in fact Boll said in an interview a while ago that he estimates 80% of the pros are boosting. All pros. Not only the Chinese)

But i think Bolls victory over Ma Long at the WC has shown others that Chinese are beatable and has given the world a (very long awaited) confidence boost.

It seems many people got bored to watch all chinese finals on tournament sundays.

So all in all, being less predictable might be good for the sport itself.

IIRC LGL spoke in an interview that total chinese dominance for such a long time isn't very good for the sport.
I think he also warned that if it continues government might pull out money and investments. Maybe this is what we're seeing right now.
Of course the preparation for world tour events was always different compared to Olympics (Marvellous twelve competition)
But Liu Guoliang always had some competitive playoffs and made players bring out their best.
Now without him CNT looks a bit headless.

Enough reality?

I have never said that thay win because of boosting. I just said that I do not like situation when somebody have better possibility od choosing equipment.

RidTheKid · Nov 12, 2017

It's good to ask these questions. People who are curious solve problems

UpSideDownCarl said:
Now, to me, it seems that it is hard to argue with the idea that something is wrong with the whole CNT at the moment.

--Is this the fallout from their inactivity after protesting at the China Open?

--Is this the result of the changes the Chinese government made to the CNT coaching staff?

--Did those incidents affect the mental games of the top CNT players, affect their focus and/or resolve?

German Open 2017

Who do you think will win the German Open 2017

Fan Zhendong

Xu Xin

Dimitrij Ovtcharov

Timo Boll

Zhang Jike

Jun Mizutani

Koki Niwa

Lin Gaoyuan

Wong ChunTing

Kenta Matsudaira

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