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  1. anchorschmidt is offline
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    #1

    In depth comparision of OSP Virtuoso- and Virtuoso+

    I've played with both blades with several versions of both blades (straight, concave, small, medium) for over a year and have gotten to know some of the pros and cons of owning them

    Background: Blades played for more than 3 months: Galaxy N10, Stiga allround Allround NCT, Zhang Jike ALC, Galaxy Earth 1, Virtuoso+, Virtuoso-. Good technique, lacking experience (3 years of proper play).

    Currently playing the Virtuoso- for more than 6 months.

    The both blades differ in their outer plies. The limba outer-ply is slightly treated to be a bit harder on the Virtuoso-
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    1. First impressions/handle/Gluing

    Both blades are very high quality. The workmanship is top-notch. Nothing to complain about here. You can get them in S/M/L head sizes. Weight is generally around 87-90 grams. From personal experience, straight handle + medium head size is head-heavy for most modern rubbers so keep that in mind. Straight + small head size is slightly head heavy. Concave + small is balanced at the center./handle I tried a friend's flaired+ medium and found it to be more or less balanced at the center too.

    You can choose from a variety of handles. For some reason, I found the Virtuoso+'s flaired handle to be quite a bit larger than the Virtuoso-'s flaired handle. Don't go 100% on what I'm saying because I couldn't compare them side by side (bought the Virtuoso- after I sold the Virtuoso+) but it would be good to ask OSP yourself. I had to sell the Virtuoso+ in flaired simply because it didn't feel comfortable but I found the Virtuoso- in flaired to be much more comfortable.

    I normally use Free Chack II but for the Virtuoso- I had to use the Free Chack I (stronger glue) because the rubber was simply not sticking that well to the top ply. Perhaps with time it will be easier to glue. I had a similar experience with my Stiga Allround NCT but it got better with time.

    2. Playing characteristics.

    2 a). Serving/Short game.

    Both blades give you good dwell time though the Virtuoso- offers slightly more dwell. Serving was nearly identical with both of these blades. Spin production is similar to the Allround NCT and you can keep with serve short without any problems.

    However, I did find that the Virtuoso- gave me slightly better feeling on my receives. It was easier to keep with ball short because of the softer outer ply.

    I almost always do a soft spin-flick (either backhand or forehand). If you really want to go for a flipkill, you can get more acceleration with the Virtuoso+ as the top ply is better suited for harder flicks. It was definitely easier to do a spin-flick with the Virtuoso- though.

    Wasn't too much difference in the long push but my long pushes aren't a very strong part of my game so I can't compare the performance very well in this department.

    2 b) First topspin, spinny looping, drive-looping, mid-distance

    Both blades had a relatively high throw angle but there are closer in terms of speed that I had expected. Both blades are noticeably faster than my Allround NCT, which makes the OSP Virtuoso- on the higher side of OFF-. With the Allround NCT, I was really having trouble playing tournaments or training for more than 2 hours, especially with the plastic ball, but both of the blades have enough zip for looping.

    The throw angle is still lower than the Allround NCT blade as a direct result of the speed. Perhaps the V- has a slightly higher throw than the + but it's very, very marginal.

    It was easy to open against backspin with both blades. The V- is a bit more tolerant of being in the wrong position because it takes less energy to activate the blade. Then again, my forehand rubber is also on the harder side so with a softer one both blades will forgive imperfect footwork. V+ is still much more forgiving compared to say, an ALC blade.

    The spin quality is high but it's what I expected after getting used to the blade. My forehand opening shot is my strongest shot and I didn't really see a difference in terms of spin if I compared it with the Allround NCT. However, I did have better quality in my shot compared to the Earth 1 or the ZJK ALC but that's because my timing/contact is not good enough to create that much spin with a koto outer ply. What I'm trying to say is, that you shouldn't expect these blades to magically increase the spin of your loops but it can help you improve your contact (because of the feedback that I'll talk about later), which will improve the spin of your loops.

    If you go for a harder loop or a drive-kill, you will feel the increased stiffness of the V+ giving you more zip but for regular looping and for half-distance spinny looping, both blades felt comfortable. However, as I said, the V- gives you a bit more safety.

    2 c) Blocking, Countering, Smashing

    It depends on your blocking style. If you like to punch or push the ball, or give it bit more speed, you will like the way the V+ blocks. If you like spin-blocking, you will like both of these blades. For an emergency block against a powerful shot, I think the V- gives me a touch more control, but the V+ also doesn't lack control.

    For low-spin shots such as countering and smashing, you will feel an increase in speed with the V+.


    3 Ball-feeling

    As others have pointed out, the vibration that you feel with both blades is very pleasing and you do know where you've contacted the ball and how good your contact was. This is not exclusive to the V+ or V- as other allwood blades give you good feedback as well. I do have to say that the feeling and feedback from these blades and especially the V- were better than anything I've tried and the feeling from the V- was on par with the more expensive Nittaku Acoustic. This can really help non-advanced players improve their game. In the short game, I also felt that I had better feeling with the V- compared to with the V+.

    4. Other Feedback

    Two higher lever players (TTR 1700 and TTR 1900) than me also tested these blades. The 1900TTR rated player (2200+USATT) went with the V- as he really enjoyed the feeling. The 1700 TTR rated player still plays with his Boll ALC but preferred the V- as well. His reasoning was that if he wanted a blade with great feeling, he would get the V-, if wanted to go the stiffer route, he would rather have something like his Boll ALC.

    5 Final thoughts

    I think that the V- is a standout blade. It's fast enough and gives you great feeling. Personally, my playing level/rating is at the highest it's been because of how well I've been able to train with this blade. If you want a touch more speed on straight shots, you can get the V+ but the speed difference is not that high and not always felt. If you really want a stiffer all-wood blade, you can check out the other OSP 7 ply allwood blades.

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    Last edited by anchorschmidt; 11-07-2017 at 01:45 PM.

  2. Suga D is offline
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    #2
    Hey Anchor, great expression of your impressions.

    Thanks a lot.
    If you haven't done it already you could post this also in the review section of both blades in case this thread gets burried after a while.

    Thanks again.

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    Last edited by Suga D; 11-08-2017 at 08:50 AM.

  3. anchorschmidt is offline
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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Suga D
    Hey Anchor, great expression of your impressions.

    Thanks a lot.
    If you haven't done it already you could post this also in the review section of both blades in case this thread gets burried after a while.

    Thanks again.
    Thanks Suga, I just did so

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    #4
    what a great review!
    Can anyone explain to me how the handle will be customized and engrave if I choose those options? What does it look with no customization?
    I'm planning to buy Virtuoso+ or Virtuoso CRWi UNI OFF.

    Thanks in advance
    Huy

  5. Suga D is offline
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by anchorschmidt
    Thanks Suga, I just did so
    Good job



    Quote Originally Posted by quanghuysk
    what a great review!
    Can anyone explain to me how the handle will be customized and engrave if I choose those options? What does it look with no customization?
    I'm planning to buy Virtuoso+ or Virtuoso CRWi UNI OFF.

    Thanks in advance
    Huy
    Sounds like a job for.....

    upsidedowncarl calling upsidedowncarl!!
    We have a new mission for you, Sir.

  6. brodolio is offline
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    #6
    Great review! Lots of details..

    But, what about flexibility?
    I'm really interested in the Virtuoso, that's why I'm asking.

    My TB ALC is too stiff. It means it is predictable because it doesn't bend if I hit hard. But I'm not a big fun of stiffness, because it lacks in that kick-effect due to the flexibility of the wood. That "sling-effect" which I really like

    My old Donic blade, on the other hand, is a bit too unpredictable, since it flexes quite a bit. So I'm looking for an all wood blade which flexes not too much, but not too less.

    Could the Virtuoso be a nice choice in that sense?

  7. anchorschmidt is offline
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by brodolio
    Great review! Lots of details..

    But, what about flexibility?
    I'm really interested in the Virtuoso, that's why I'm asking.

    My TB ALC is too stiff. It means it is predictable because it doesn't bend if I hit hard. But I'm not a big fun of stiffness, because it lacks in that kick-effect due to the flexibility of the wood. That "sling-effect" which I really like

    My old Donic blade, on the other hand, is a bit too unpredictable, since it flexes quite a bit. So I'm looking for an all wood blade which flexes not too much, but not too less.

    Could the Virtuoso be a nice choice in that sense?
    Having also played an ALC blade, you will find both of these blades quite flexible in comparison. None of them have a too much flex (if I compare them to my old Persson Powerallround) so both of them are quite predictable.

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    #8
    Thanks Suga D,
    I had a notification that upsidedowncarl replied on this post 6 hours ago but I'm not able to see his reply.???

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  9. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #9
    I tried to post last night but the updates to the site caused my posts to come up blank.

    Let’s see:

    The OSP flared handle is my personal favorite handle. There is no handle I like as much.

    So if the customization had to do with the shape of the handle, I wouldn’t change anything. If it had to do with the kind of wood in the handle, I also would not change anything.

    If the customization is that you want it to say something specific, then go for it.

    I want a V+ that says UpSideDownCarl V+



    For what a flared OSP handle looks like, you could see Anchor’s photo.


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    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  10. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #10

    In depth comparision of OSP Virtuoso- and Virtuoso+

    If you want to see some photos of a well worn V+:









    Extra charge for battle scars.


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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 11-09-2017 at 01:02 PM.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  11. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #11
    As far as the “In Depth” comparison....

    [I am editing this because, I am seeing this on the full site and on tapatalk it was not showing me the whole post and not telling me that it was only showing me part of the post. I am going to have to ask Dan why Tapatalk is shortening longer posts.]
    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 11-10-2017 at 07:03 AM.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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    #12
    Very nice review. Blades by OSP simply look beautiful and sooner or later I'm gonna get myself a V+. However I'm curious (even though it is probably not that important): Do the core plies of OSP blades consist of one single piece or are the core plies glued together out of several pieces?
    I'm just asking because over at mytt someone recently complained that many high quality/ high priced blades have core plies that are not made out of one single piece and that a "construction" like that would negatively influence the playing characteristics (although, if I remember correctly, even Neyx's blade designer denied that a core ply made out of several pieces would have any significant influence on how the blade performs). I would also assume that it doesn't matter much, but it would still be interesting to know how Palatinus works in that respect...

  13. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #13

    In depth comparision of OSP Virtuoso- and Virtuoso+

    Jimbo, the thing that you have to understand is that you are not actually comparing apples to apples.

    I believe most of the blades you are talking about, the blades in question, that have plies that are jointed are mass produced blades where the individual blades were cut from giant pieces of plywood.

    OSP blades are hand made. The blades are not actually made until you order them.

    Personally, I hear of people wanting to buy second hand OSP blades and to me, this defeats at least 50% of the purpose of a company like OSP. When you order, you can specify head size, weight, and any number of details and they build the blade for you AFTER YOU ORDER. So this is really not connected with blades that were mass produced from a giant piece of plywood that would have to have seams where different pieces of the wood were joined for each separate ply.

    If I remember correctly, the size of the wood for the OSP blades is large enough to produce 2 blades so that you could order two blades made from the same exact piece of wood. If you took this option, it would be like having the twin of your main blade as your backup blade.

    Whereas, in the mass produced blades you are talking about, one giant piece of plywood could be cut into 20 or more blades which is why more than one piece of wood is used. You cannot get a single piece of wood for the plies that are as big as the full board the mass produced blades are cut from.

    I have 4 OSP blades. All of them are made with one piece of wood for each separate ply and no joining within plies.

    Again, these are handmade blades. Not mass produced blades. But it does make you wonder why Butterfly charges so much more for mass produced blades that don’t have the same kind of highly skilled, individual man hours of labor per blade: and why OSP charges such a reasonable amount for hand made craftsmanship.

    And at OSP, Robert Palatanus supposedly hand selects the wood. And has some understanding of the difference between different grades of wood. Whereas, in a mass produced blade, I am not fairly sure each separate blade cannot receive that kind of individual inspection of the wood for each specific blade.


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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 11-09-2017 at 04:54 PM.
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    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  14. Jimbob MacInbred is offline
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Jimbo, the thing that you have to understand is that you are not actually comparing apples to apples.

    I believe most of the blades you are talking about, the blades in question, that have plies that are jointed are mass produced blades where the individual blades were cut from giant pieces of wood.

    OSP blades are hand made. The blades are not actually made until you order them. Personally, I hear of people wanting to buy second hand OSP blades and to me, this defeats at least 50% of the purpose of a company like OSP. When you order, you can specify head size, weight, and any number of details and they build the blade for you AFTER YOU ORDER. So this is really not connected with blades that were mass produced from a giant piece of plywood that would have to have seams where different pieces of the wood were joined for each separate ply.

    If I remember correctly, the size of the wood is large enough to produce 2 blades so that you could order two blades made from the same exact piece of wood. Whereas, in the mass produced blades you are talking about, they could be cut into 20 or more blades which is why more than one piece of wood is used.

    I have 4 OSP blades. All of them are made with one piece of wood for each separate ply and no joining within plies.

    Again, these are handmade blades. Not mass produced blades. But it does make you wonder why Butterfly charges so much more for mass produced blades that don’t cost as much to produce and why OSP charges such a reasonable amount for hand made craftsmanship.

    And at OSP, Robert Palatanus supposedly hand selects the wood. And has some understanding of the difference between different grades of wood. Whereas, in a mass produced blade, I am not so sure there is that kind of inspection of the wood for each specific blade.


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    I see. Thanks a lot for the clarification. I guess that is one more reason to get yourself an OSP ...

  15. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #15

    In depth comparision of OSP Virtuoso- and Virtuoso+

    There are many excellent blades out there that are mass produced.

    OSP is a specialty thing. Almost a novelty. If you wanted to be able to really customize the details of the blade you got, they would be able to do that for you.

    With each of my blades from OSP I was very specific about what I wanted. Head size, weight, balance.

    I have a Virtuoso Off-, a Virtuoso Plus, a V’King and one totally customized blade with these plies:

    Limba-Spruce-Ayous-Spruce-Limba

    If I get a chance I will take photos of the handle from that blade.

    They all are great. They all are exactly what they were designed to be. I had 4 different Clippers. They were all very different. And some were good and some where not so good.

    If I got 4 different V+s or any of the other models, I would still be confident that, even though wood is wood and they would all be different, they would all be excellent and play really well.

    OSP, in my mind is more for someone who wants a blade custom made to his/her specifications.

    If you just wanted something similar that is not as expensive, a Korbel or a Stratus Power Wood are close enough to a V+ and a Primorac Off- is close enough to a V-. But you cannot customize those. But if that is what you want, they are pretty darn good and notably less expensive.

    For half the price, a core or top ply that is more than one piece of wood will not really be such a big deal. But if you want to customize and value the craftsmanship, then OSP gives you a more flexible option for a little extra cash.

    Want even cheaper: Yinhe Galaxy 896 is pretty darn good for $16.00 USD (yep, that is right, UpSideDownCarl has his own currency).


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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 11-09-2017 at 05:12 PM.
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    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    There are many excellent blades out there that are mass produced.

    OSP is a specialty thing. Almost a novelty. If you wanted to be able to really customize the details of the blade you got, they would be able to do that for you.

    With each of my blades from OSP I was very specific about what I wanted. Head size, weight, balance.

    I have a Virtuoso Off-, a Virtuoso Plus, a V’King and one totally customized blade with these plies:

    Limba-Spruce-Ayous-Spruce-Limba

    If I get a chance I will take photos of the handle from that blade.

    They all are great. They all are exactly what they were designed to be. I had 4 different Clippers. They were all very different. And some were good and some where not so good.

    If I got 4 different V+s or any of the other models, I would still be confident that, even though wood is wood and they would all be different, they would all be excellent and play really well.

    OSP, in my mind is more for someone who wants a blade custom made to his/her specifications.

    If you just wanted something similar that is not as expensive, a Korbel or a Stratus Power Wood are close enough to a V+ and a Primorac Off- is close enough to a V-. But you cannot customize those. But if that is what you want, they are pretty darn good and notably less expensive.

    For half the price, a core or top ply that is more than one piece of wood will not really be such a big deal. But if you want to customize and value the craftsmanship, then OSP gives you a more flexible option for a little extra cash.

    Want even cheaper: Yinhe Galaxy 896 is pretty darn good for $16.00 USD (yep, that is right, UpSideDownCarl has his own currency).


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    USD = UpSidedown Dollar???
    Actually I already own an allwood blade (Stiga Infinity) which I occasionally play. Qualitywise it is quite good, even though some people still complain about Stiga's craftsmanship. The one thing I dislike the most about it though, is the strange "hollow" sound. I would like to think that the V+ provides a more solid feeling and a "non-hollow" sound, if you know what i mean. Back then I thought about the TSPW, too, but opted to go for the Infinity instead...
    I guess I have to see where I stand financially at the end of the year, and then go for the V+ and maybe some other blades (TSPW, Hurricane Hao 2, H301) in order to test a little bit...

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  17. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #17

    In depth comparision of OSP Virtuoso- and Virtuoso+

    I would actually put the Korbel at the top of your list. Not too expensive. Excellent build quality. Particularly if you are talking about a mass produced blade.

    But if you want to save a little money, the Korbel is one of the most solidly built all wood blades that is mass produced.

    However, you can’t go wrong with a V+. I would get one as heavy as they will make it. 90+ grams. I would also think about the medium or large sized head. It will give you more feeling.


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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 11-09-2017 at 10:31 PM.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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    #18
    Brilliant!!!
    Thanks a lot UpSideDownCarl. I would hit like button 3 times for you but unfortunately I don't see it somehow since I'm a newcomer probably.

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    #19
    Somebody said Korbel? Hhhmmm...

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  20. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by quanghuysk
    Brilliant!!!
    Thanks a lot UpSideDownCarl. I would hit like button 3 times for you but unfortunately I don't see it somehow since I'm a newcomer probably.
    The like button does not appear until after you have five posts. So it will appear soon.

    It will be in the bottom line of posts, to the left.

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