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In depth comparision of OSP Virtuoso- and Virtuoso+
- Thread starter anchorschmidt
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So Carl has his own currency and he can read one's mind!?! That's interesting...and freightening. Because before you posted your recommendation I was indeed thinking about a V+ with 92/ 93 gr and a medium sized head... so, hats off!
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mm Korbel, nice!!!Somebody said Korbel? Hhhmmm...
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Someone said Korbel??
And i used to think all the time this thread is about Palatinus' Virtuoso blades.... Silly me!
[Emoji12]
Guys seriously, would you mind if we get back to the topic?!?!
Tbh the OSP Martin is even more tempting, but the Virtuosos (both) sound interesting as well...
And i used to think all the time this thread is about Palatinus' Virtuoso blades.... Silly me!
[Emoji12]
Guys seriously, would you mind if we get back to the topic?!?!
Tbh the OSP Martin is even more tempting, but the Virtuosos (both) sound interesting as well...
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thank you anchor schmidt, that is a really useful post! especially the comments about handles and balance. i have two virtuoso- in flared and have always wondered about the sqst handles, because i enjoy playing with straight too; but i also play with heavy evolution rubbers, so perhaps i'll stick with flared 
once again thanks for taking the time to write the comprehensive review!
once again thanks for taking the time to write the comprehensive review!
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Then when you want to pull off your osp v- please pm I'll pay the shipping, [emoji14]You're most welcome
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because the OP did such a great job, i wanted to add a few comments. i've played this season so far firstly with a FL virtuoso off- (90 gr) with el-s 1.9/2mm both sides. then the last month with SQST virtuoso off- (88 gr) with nittaku fastarc c-1 max both sides.
the FL was 2 gr heavier than the SQST and the el-s were 3 gr each heavier than the fastarc c-1. in total 8 gr difference which is lots and i really notice my reset time and my over the table play improve.
the heavier FL was amazing for fh topspins from 1-2m back. it was very stable in the block, but the el-s were just too heavy. i have a wristy backhand and had problems with my wrist because of this.
the lighter SQST is not quite as dynamic from a distance (i think the el-s are more dynamic than the fastarc) - but the weight allows me to accelerate faster, so i don't actually notice much difference. my backhand is better - i feel more confident attacking longer servers because of the way i can accelerate the blade.
the SQST handle is just so comfy. i think i must change grips slightly and this facilitates it - i am caught out less. it also gives me more leverage over the table (although the chinese would disagree
the fastarc c-1 are amazing rubbers. super spinny (just as spinny as el-s imho), but much lighter and more linear. the control of the virtuoso and the rubbers give me a lot of confidence.
i played all last year with a primorac off-. imho the virtuoso off- is a bit faster, feels nicer in the hand and blocks a bit better. of course i might just be a bit better as well
this probably just sounds like a plug for osp - it is!
the FL was 2 gr heavier than the SQST and the el-s were 3 gr each heavier than the fastarc c-1. in total 8 gr difference which is lots and i really notice my reset time and my over the table play improve.
the heavier FL was amazing for fh topspins from 1-2m back. it was very stable in the block, but the el-s were just too heavy. i have a wristy backhand and had problems with my wrist because of this.
the lighter SQST is not quite as dynamic from a distance (i think the el-s are more dynamic than the fastarc) - but the weight allows me to accelerate faster, so i don't actually notice much difference. my backhand is better - i feel more confident attacking longer servers because of the way i can accelerate the blade.
the SQST handle is just so comfy. i think i must change grips slightly and this facilitates it - i am caught out less. it also gives me more leverage over the table (although the chinese would disagree
the fastarc c-1 are amazing rubbers. super spinny (just as spinny as el-s imho), but much lighter and more linear. the control of the virtuoso and the rubbers give me a lot of confidence.
i played all last year with a primorac off-. imho the virtuoso off- is a bit faster, feels nicer in the hand and blocks a bit better. of course i might just be a bit better as well
this probably just sounds like a plug for osp - it is!
Can you guys comment on what kind of rubbers are suitable for the V and V+? I'm a big fan of Hurricane rubbers for forehand and some FX version of Tenergy (I like 05FX the most), do they fit well on the Virtuoso/Virtuoso+? Thanks!
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I would love to try the Hurricane series, but I've been too nervous since I feel I would want to buy an entire new setup just for testing tacky "Chinese" rubbers (as opposed to just putting them on a blade I already own). Okay, it's not nervousness, it's merely that I want to prevent myself from spending even more money on something I don't "need".
I can say that Tenergy 05 works great on my Virtuoso +, as do all of the "tensor" rubbers I've tried on it (Rakza 7, Xiom Vega Euro/Pro).
just ordered an OSP Virtuoso - flared handle & Medium head, cant wait to get it, thanks to UpSideDownCarl for all of his knowledge or blades & such!!!
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My Virtuoso + arrived today. First knock tonight, amazed at the touch and feel and control on first go. This is coming from an Infinity.
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Got my Virtuoso- at 89g with FL and medium head a week ago; EL-S on FH; Vega Europe on BH.
Exceptional craftsmanship and I feel so good with it on my hand.
The only thing is that my BH pushes keep going to net. Not sure if this is due to the 'medium/low' throw angle of Vega Europe or my poor BH skills? I did not experience the same when I used Rozena on Korbel's BH.
Exceptional craftsmanship and I feel so good with it on my hand.
The only thing is that my BH pushes keep going to net. Not sure if this is due to the 'medium/low' throw angle of Vega Europe or my poor BH skills? I did not experience the same when I used Rozena on Korbel's BH.
I played two months with virtuoso off- with H3 Neo commercial and it was fine, it felt natural/correct to me. I haven't tried with others blade so i don't have point of comparaison but i guess it is a good choice. In the end i stop using H3N because i didn't really like the difficulty to to a FH loop when i was out of position.
And for an overall feedback of the blade. For me it's a very all around blade that do everything pretty well. Receive are controllable, loop can be done close and far from the table with good safety. With block it absorbs a lot and sometimes even too much i find (the ball don't go deep enough if i block too passively)
So really no problem and i feel i can adjust the speed i want with the rubbers i select
Personally i play with R42 on my FH and mantra S on my BH. The blade is 159mm, and i think 81g or 87g, not sure. FL handle. The only think i don't like is that the handle is a bit slippy as the wood is very soft
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To be more specific, if I am to replace my BH rubber (Vega Europe) to have higher chance of the ball over the net, any suggestions?
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Spin and more spin.
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Sorry, info. If a rubber has "low throw" on topspin when you push it will not get pulled down as much. If a rubber has "high throw" on topspin, the ball will get pulled down MORE when you push.
The throw in part is related to the amount of grab from the top sheet. More grab on topspin vs topspin and the ball goes higher. And that also means, more grab on backspin vs backspin means the ball goes lower.
How long had you used that particular sheet of Rozena? Older rubber starts to lose some of its grip. Also, Rozena may have a little less grab on the ball and be less spin sensitive than Vega Europe. In fact, they advertise it as exactly that. Easier to use for a mid level player.
Regardless, my suggestion is, practice a little. Your technique just needs to recalibrate and get used to the new rubber. It should happen fast. If you did a 2-4 hour training session where you worked on technique and skills rather than playing matches, you would probably fully adjust to the new rubber on BH.
Why did this not happen to FH? Often one wing is more sensitive to changes than the other.
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Sorry, info. If a rubber has "low throw" on topspin when you push it will not get pulled down as much. If a rubber has "high throw" on topspin, the ball will get pulled down MORE when you push.
The throw in part is related to the amount of grab from the top sheet. More grab on topspin vs topspin and the ball goes higher. And that also means, more grab on backspin vs backspin means the ball goes lower.
How long had you used that particular sheet of Rozena? Older rubber starts to lose some of its grip. Also, Rozena may have a little less grab on the ball and be less spin sensitive than Vega Europe. In fact, they advertise it as exactly that. Easier to use for a mid level player.
Regardless, my suggestion is, practice a little. Your technique just needs to recalibrate and get used to the new rubber. It should happen fast. If you did a 2-4 hour training session where you worked on technique and skills rather than playing matches, you would probably fully adjust to the new rubber on BH.
Why did this not happen to FH? Often one wing is more sensitive to changes than the other.
Very useful info, Carl. Appreciated.
Do it mean that my Vega Europe have high throw (instead of low throw) on topspin in this context? How does it compare to Vega Pro if both are new?
BTW my Rozena on Korbel is also new.
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I guess I will give a story. I teach yoga. I used to teach at a hot yoga studio over a decade ago. People would walk into the lobby of the studio and say, "oh my, it is hot in here." They would change for yoga and go into the yoga room and they would say, "oh my, it is hot in here." After they practiced they would walk out of the yoga room into the lobby and say, "man it is cold out here!" Now the temperature in the lobby didn't change. So was it hot or cold in the lobby?
Compared to T05 Vega Europe probably has low throw. Perhaps compared to Rozena, the circumstances are different.
If you have a Korbel with new Rozena, what made you get a Virtuoso with different rubber?
Regardless of the answer, if your skill level is decent, switching from one to the other won't make too much of a difference. If it is not, switching back and forth can mess you up. It would have been easier to adjust to the new blade if it had the same rubbers. Pick one and use it. Don't use the other one. If you decide to switch, use the other one for long enough to get used to it.
The equipment is definitely not the problem. But you not being used to the equipment is at least part of the problem. If you go back and forth without committing to one of the setups, it could slow your improvement for a while. But, after a while, it won't anymore. But, I would still pick one and stick with it.
And don't worry about throw angle. If you got 10 different people to try and define that term you would probably get 10 different answers on what it means and what rubbers are high and low throw. And probably that term actually refers to the spin/speed ratio.
If I confused you, don't try and sort out what it means even though I know what I mean. Just choose one setup and use it. Ignore people who talk about throw angle. And definitely don't confuse high throw angle on topspin with the ball going higher when you push. That is like walking up the down escalator and not noticing you are going nowhere.
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I guess I will give a story. I teach yoga. I used to teach at a hot yoga studio over a decade ago. People would walk into the lobby of the studio and say, "oh my, it is hot in here." They would change for yoga and go into the yoga room and they would say, "oh my, it is hot in here." After they practiced they would walk out of the yoga room into the lobby and say, "man it is cold out here!" Now the temperature in the lobby didn't change. So was it hot or cold in the lobby?
Compared to T05 Vega Europe probably has low throw. Perhaps compared to Rozena, the circumstances are different.
If you have a Korbel with new Rozena, what made you get a Virtuoso with different rubber?
Regardless of the answer, if your skill level is decent, switching from one to the other won't make too much of a difference. If it is not, switching back and forth can mess you up. It would have been easier to adjust to the new blade if it had the same rubbers. Pick one and use it. Don't use the other one. If you decide to switch, use the other one for long enough to get used to it.
The equipment is definitely not the problem. But you not being used to the equipment is at least part of the problem. If you go back and forth without committing to one of the setups, it could slow your improvement for a while. But, after a while, it won't anymore. But, I would still pick one and stick with it.
And don't worry about throw angle. If you got 10 different people to try and define that term you would probably get 10 different answers on what it means and what rubbers are high and low throw. And probably that term actually refers to the spin/speed ratio.
Excellent insight and good story. Indeed everything is about comparisons and perspectives.
A bit of background here. I played TT during my high school time for 3 to 4 years using J-pen blade without following a coach. I was more on offensive style with looping/smashing on FH, and push/backspin on BH. I stopped playing TT for almost 30 years and resumed playing only since 3 months ago. I realised very few people use J-pen nowadays so I decided to switch to shakehand blade so its is easier for me to find a coach now. So, I'd say I am a beginner with some experiences.
I once used my friends' Clipper and found it quite ok in general but too stiff for me. I prefer a bit flexible, not too fast and with good touch of ball that could help me do better looping and improve my skills. I came down to 5-ply allwood blades either Virtuoso Off- or Korbel. I went for V- in the end after reading all the good reviews of it including the ones by you Carl.
My brother who has very similar background as mine went for Korbel recently so I borrow his and played for 20 minutes, hence my earlier observation. Besides, I found Korbel has more vibration, while V- has less. Both comes with good feel of balls though. My brother's Korbel (at 95g) is slightly faster than mine (89g) - you mentioned in another thread that weight of a blade did matter.
I think you insight is very accurate that I am not used to the new equipment yet, especially on the BH side as the skills required are quite different from my old days of using J-pen. FH is comparatively easier for me to adopt.
All in all I love my V-, big thanks to you and the reviewer of this thread Anchor. I am sure I will stick to it for quite some time.
One questions though - I am an Asian with slim figure and do not have powerful muscle. Do you believe that Vega Europe on V- won't be too soft or slow for me to practise my BH?
Thanks in advance.
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