The New World Ranking System Explained - January 2018!

This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Oct 2010
221
75
381
Thanks a lot for your replies.

That makes sense in a way, still i think we will have to wait and see how it all works out.
A change is not necessarily always a change for the better.
I mean just look at the ball change,
At first many amateures complained of inconsistent quality, which seems to have become better. But now many top pros started complaining, because of so many varying ball types.

What a mess. I don't think that was how it was intended to be.

Yes, I agree changing to the plastic ball was a move that virtually no one wanted. It was due to the customs and transportation issues with the celluloid balls, as they are highly flammable. My father is the Joola & Yasaka distributor in my home country, I remember his frustration when the shipments were frequently held up at customs because of the balls. I set one on fire once, and it burned fast!

At the WTTC this year I witnessed only a single ball break in the main hall (though undoubtedly there would have been more), which is a vast improvement from the celluloid ball. It has taken a while to reach this stage of course, and some brands are still not there yet.

My point is this, sometimes change is unavoidable. The ITTF is made up of people looking to improve the sport for all parties. It's like TTX (which I'm not particularly fond of), it gets so much flak from Table Tennis players. But what they don't realise is TTX is not for them. It's for everyday people who might play once in a while with friends. The kind of people who would visit Bounce or Spin (Table Tennis bar/nightclubs in London & New York) for a business event and find the sport enjoyable but not in the way we did when we got involved. It's for people who aren't going to spend half a grand on equipment, who aren't interested in beating the pros on the next table, or attending weekly training sessions. The problem with TTX is that the only audience it's reaching currently is the one which hates it.

That was a bit of a tangent from the original topic but to bring it back to WR I'll say this:
When enough decisions are questioned and debated by the community it creates a stigma towards the organisation, in this case ITTF. If a new player started out today and asked about the ITTF he/she might be told they're a counterproductive lot who don't know what they're doing. The Youtube comments can attest to that! Not many of the people plastering negative slurs on ITTF highlights are aware of the process involved there. To have HD 1080p 60fps videos requires transferring an enormous file size to the editors who are not with the team on site, this alone would take too long and mean highlights take days longer to upload. It would cost more and viewers would complain that the event is over already. Besides this the ITTF has agreements with TV networks around the world which stream at high quality. So demanding free material at top quality is somewhat selfish. When the Olympics are on I always pay for coverage, and the same goes for any other sporting event of significance. Imagine if people had a tantrum because the McGregor vs Mayweather UFC bout wasn't free...

When we take the time to analyse and research the reasons behind certain decisions, and stop spreading hate towards the ITTF, the organisation stands a better chance at getting Table Tennis to the big screen more often. Their aim is to be in the top 5 Olympic sports. A little support wouldn't hurt. The goal of this new WR is to make things more exciting for everyone. Since it hasn't started yet let's wait and see what happens before deciding it'll be the death of Table Tennis as we know it.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2016
1,024
1,960
3,016
Correct me if I am wrong. One reason of increasing the size and weight of balls is to make table tennis sport easier to view... Isn't it much easier to improve the recording and livestreaming tech for viewers to see the details of the placements and spins than to frequently change devices and rules and make troubles to the players? Do you see such frequent changes in other racket sports? Badminton? Tennis? When ITTF tries to borrow rules from other sports, has it ever investigated why other sports get more prize money, newer tech, better coverage? For badminton tours, participation is sort of "forced" while the prize money is three times of ITTF tours (there was no difference 10 years ago). Not to mention the prize money of tennis. People play badminton for fitness and for fun and people play table tennis for fitness and for fun. I am not against things like TTX but I am just curious without BX, how can BWF manage to get more prize money for their tours within 10 years? Why cannot ITTF?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Tony's Table Tennis
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,258
6,223
15,291
Read 3 reviews
Correct me if I am wrong. One reason of increasing the size and weight of balls is to make table tennis sport easier to view... Isn't it much easier to improve the recording and livestreaming tech for viewers to see the details of the placements and spins than to frequently change devices and rules and make troubles to the players? Do you see such frequent changes in other racket sports? Badminton? Tennis? When ITTF tries to borrow rules from other sports, has it ever investigated why other sports get more prize money, newer tech, better coverage? For badminton tours, participation is sort of "forced" while the prize money is three times of ITTF tours (there was no difference 10 years ago). Not to mention the prize money of tennis. People play badminton for fitness and for fun and people play table tennis for fitness and for fun. I am not against things like TTX but I am just curious without BX, how can BWF manage to get more prize money for their tours within 10 years? Why cannot ITTF?

Spot on
everything ITTF claim to do is for the player, for the fan, for the audience
But:
For Player: player retire or loose out with all these changes, player get injured more, player need to find other avenues to make income (ITTF tournament can barely break even the costs of being an athlete or simply just getting to the tournament), lots to list
For Fan: Every time equipment rule change, pricing goes up up up. Be a good fan - pay more money?
For Audience: well technology is improving, ITTF didn't approve, it just went with technology

Yes, ITTF is doing very well to get every nation on the planet as a member.
But at the end of the day, ITTF prize money is a joke for any professional sport.

In South Africa, you generally classify Table Tennis as a game and not a sport
But I guess if the international and national bodies don't take the sport serious, it can only remain a game (now how many countries are the same here?)

You take China out of the equation, viewer ship on TT is not too great
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
May 2015
3,238
3,924
27,424
Read 5 reviews
Yes, I agree changing to the plastic ball was a move that virtually no one wanted. It was due to the customs and transportation issues with the celluloid balls, as they are highly flammable. My father is the Joola & Yasaka distributor in my home country, I remember his frustration when the shipments were frequently held up at customs because of the balls. I set one on fire once, and it burned fast!

At the WTTC this year I witnessed only a single ball break in the main hall (though undoubtedly there would have been more), which is a vast improvement from the celluloid ball. It has taken a while to reach this stage of course, and some brands are still not there yet.

My point is this, sometimes change is unavoidable. The ITTF is made up of people looking to improve the sport for all parties. It's like TTX (which I'm not particularly fond of), it gets so much flak from Table Tennis players. But what they don't realise is TTX is not for them. It's for everyday people who might play once in a while with friends. The kind of people who would visit Bounce or Spin (Table Tennis bar/nightclubs in London & New York) for a business event and find the sport enjoyable but not in the way we did when we got involved. It's for people who aren't going to spend half a grand on equipment, who aren't interested in beating the pros on the next table, or attending weekly training sessions. The problem with TTX is that the only audience it's reaching currently is the one which hates it.

That was a bit of a tangent from the original topic but to bring it back to WR I'll say this:
When enough decisions are questioned and debated by the community it creates a stigma towards the organisation, in this case ITTF. If a new player started out today and asked about the ITTF he/she might be told they're a counterproductive lot who don't know what they're doing. The Youtube comments can attest to that! Not many of the people plastering negative slurs on ITTF highlights are aware of the process involved there. To have HD 1080p 60fps videos requires transferring an enormous file size to the editors who are not with the team on site, this alone would take too long and mean highlights take days longer to upload. It would cost more and viewers would complain that the event is over already. Besides this the ITTF has agreements with TV networks around the world which stream at high quality. So demanding free material at top quality is somewhat selfish. When the Olympics are on I always pay for coverage, and the same goes for any other sporting event of significance. Imagine if people had a tantrum because the McGregor vs Mayweather UFC bout wasn't free...

When we take the time to analyse and research the reasons behind certain decisions, and stop spreading hate towards the ITTF, the organisation stands a better chance at getting Table Tennis to the big screen more often. Their aim is to be in the top 5 Olympic sports. A little support wouldn't hurt. The goal of this new WR is to make things more exciting for everyone. Since it hasn't started yet let's wait and see what happens before deciding it'll be the death of Table Tennis as we know it.

Thanks again TT Guru for your insightful answer and taking time to reply so detailed.

Your post makes a lot of sense. I've heard that ball production and transport in the c-ball era has been more than hazardous, but never met someone whose set one on fire personally. Hope nothing serious happened.

Since the days when internet forums and trolls came up spreading hate has become quite fashionable.
Maybe a bit more understanding and less excitement in discussing is more goal and result oriented and could be quite nice for a change.

My main point of critique is actually just one.

If a change didn't work out the way it was intended, it should be taken back IMHO. This applies for everything in life.

Yet i fail to see that the ITTF has ever done that. What are they afraid of?
I think admitting having made a mistake is a sign of greatness and largeness and makes them appear more 'human' and less profit oriented.

But thanks again for your post. Very appreciated. I like healthy discussions without the need of name calling.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,258
6,223
15,291
Read 3 reviews
That is the problem
some one don't agree, then they are labeled haters or troll

So one forum member's father is a distributor for two brands
I'm a distributor for 10 brands
Throughout the years, there are no problems - it just that logistical companies has since become more stricter (just like commercial airlines). It is illegal to carry celluloid balls onto airplanes - thus you also can't airfreight it.
Sea freight is still possible

I guess NZ customs law is special, but I don't really have customs issues on cellu balls

hater or troll, but I was the first person in TTD to tell this forum that celluloid did cause factory fires (i'm more than just a keyboard warrior or troll or hater, I'm very well in the sport with connections in factories, national bodies, international bodies etc etc)

I would say, from an environmental part, the cellu change is good
But ITTF was never ready for the force change.
The result - fans pocket hurting (yes I can sell more balls as a shop, but it is not right what ITTF is doing)

1) shortage of balls
2) balls was never ready for mass production (breaks easily)
3) pricing justification is not fair. Should ITTF be the good man as some hope them to be, they should of regulate 300-500% increase of pricing with rule changes. But then again, licensing cost to use the ITTF approved logo isn't cheap either.

Back to world tour
I know many that hardly breaks even by taking part - it is a huge financial strain to compete
If the seeding is off, then a lot of disappointment tier 2 or 3 of your top 100 would just be knocked out at round 1 by facing a top 10 player, whereby in the old ranking it would be only the 2nd up. This thus means they will go home with no money (not even to cover airfare)
So yeah, your China's and Japans who have endless cash for TT, can do 12 events a year. Then these two country would be 80% of the top 30 (just look at juniors ranking)
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2010
2,285
892
5,082
Read 19 reviews
What do USA TT mean on Facebook this is correct?

wr.jpg
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
May 2015
3,238
3,924
27,424
Read 5 reviews
That is the problem
some one don't agree, then they are labeled haters or troll

So one forum member's father is a distributor for two brands
I'm a distributor for 10 brands
Throughout the years, there are no problems - it just that logistical companies has since become more stricter (just like commercial airlines). It is illegal to carry celluloid balls onto airplanes - thus you also can't airfreight it.
Sea freight is still possible

I guess NZ customs law is special, but I don't really have customs issues on cellu balls

hater or troll, but I was the first person in TTD to tell this forum that celluloid did cause factory fires (i'm more than just a keyboard warrior or troll or hater, I'm very well in the sport with connections in factories, national bodies, international bodies etc etc)

I would say, from an environmental part, the cellu change is good
But ITTF was never ready for the force change.
The result - fans pocket hurting (yes I can sell more balls as a shop, but it is not right what ITTF is doing)

1) shortage of balls
2) balls was never ready for mass production (breaks easily)
3) pricing justification is not fair. Should ITTF be the good man as some hope them to be, they should of regulate 300-500% increase of pricing with rule changes. But then again, licensing cost to use the ITTF approved logo isn't cheap either.

Back to world tour
I know many that hardly breaks even by taking part - it is a huge financial strain to compete
If the seeding is off, then a lot of disappointment tier 2 or 3 of your top 100 would just be knocked out at round 1 by facing a top 10 player, whereby in the old ranking it would be only the 2nd up. This thus means they will go home with no money (not even to cover airfare)
So yeah, your China's and Japans who have endless cash for TT, can do 12 events a year. Then these two country would be 80% of the top 30 (just look at juniors ranking)

Tony, i hope you know my post wasn't addressed towards you. I don't know why you put yourself in that bracket. Your not hiding behind unknown identity opposed to many hatespreaders on the web.

I mean just look at the comments underneath ITTF YouTube vids or on FB or actually even here on TTD as well.
Many people are quite handy with namecalling, accusations, etc...
Most of the times not very productive.

As i said, nothing against a healthy and lively discussion but people should stay respectful then probably they would be heard more...

Just saying.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,258
6,223
15,291
Read 3 reviews
ITTF and USATT both made this mistake
They each had "world ranking" which is incorrect
as Rain said, it is world tour standings (of which such yearly ranking existing when it was still called Pro tour)

The world tour standing is really for grand finals
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,258
6,223
15,291
Read 3 reviews
Tony, i hope you know my post wasn't addressed towards you. I don't know why you put yourself in that bracket. Your not hiding behind unknown identity opposed to many hatespreaders on the web.

I mean just look at the comments underneath ITTF YouTube vids or on FB or actually even here on TTD as well.
Many people are quite handy with namecalling, accusations, etc...
Most of the times not very productive.

As i said, nothing against a healthy and lively discussion but people should stay respectful then probably they would be heard more...

Just saying.

all good, wasn't directed at you
directed at who ever feels that about me
I like to critise and I like to give credit, both where due

I'm also eager to see where this ranking goes, but I already know some players have headaches.
I could just become like Junior ranking with Japanese players everywhere, because they have tons of funding until 2020 to take part in internationals
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2016
45
17
64
Does anybody know what happened to Xu Xin's ranking? He seems missing but played and won the last tournament (Swedish Open).
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2016
1,024
1,960
3,016
He did not attend any tournament from Jul to Oct. Therefore his ranking was hidden in Nov due to 4-month without activity.
As he played Swedish Open, his ranking was activated and will show up in Dec issue of ranking which will be released on Dec 6.
XX's ranking points are 2994 in Nov although hidden, below Dima's points of 3011 (#3). Dima will get more bonus points from German Open than XX's bonus points from Swedish Open. Dima shall get more rating points beating FZD than XX beating FZD. Therefore, Dima will still be #3 in Dec and XX #4.
Does anybody know what happened to Xu Xin's ranking? He seems missing but played and won the last tournament (Swedish Open).
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2016
1,024
1,960
3,016
As long as Dima does not lose in the first round, he will be #1 in Jan no matter what result he and FZD have in Grand Finals. If Dima indeed loses in the first round, FZD has to win the champion to be #1; otherwise Dima will still be #1.

Will Dima be number 1 after Grand Finals?
 
Top