The New World Ranking System Explained - January 2018!

rainneverever · Nov 13, 2017

Tony's Table Tennis said:
What interest me is world team champs
I guess Germany has done enough for a good draw, so would be top 2 seed.
Imagine if the math is against Germany and Dima/Boll lost a lot of ranking point and end up Germany facing China in a QF

I just check WTTTC on ITTF, no prospectus yet... weird, normally it is out 1 year + prior
wanted to check when is the seeding deadline/world ranking list it would use.
I guess 1 March - so the 2 yummy platinum tours in March won't contribute to wtttc points seeding

Oops, I checked Nov team ranking under current and new system. That's too different. It will be really interesting to see how ranking affects seeding in 2018 WTTTC.

Men's team	Nov-current	Nov-new
1	CHN	CHN
2	GER	JPN
3	JPN	GER
4	FRA	FRA
5	KOR	HKG
6	SWE	POR
7	TPE	TPE
8	POR	SWE

Women's team	Nov-current	Nov-new
1	CHN	CHN
2	JPN	JPN
3	TPE	HKG
4	HKG	TPE
5	KOR	KOR
6	SGP	ROU
7	ROU	HUN
8	GER	NED

rainneverever · Nov 14, 2017

Quiz:
Who is the last non-CNT player that was once ranked men's WR#1? Hint: he is not retired.
How many CNT players and non-CNT players have been ranked as men's WR#1? Hint: fewer than 10 for both.

Suga D · Nov 15, 2017

Answer to question one:

Timo Boll

rainneverever · Nov 15, 2017

Bingo, 2011 January to March, Timo Boll. Before, ML; after, WH.
Curious about who will become the new WR#1 next January, Dima or FZD. Neither has reached #1 before.

Suga D said:
Answer to question one:

Timo Boll

Tony's Table Tennis · Nov 15, 2017

rainneverever said:
Oops, I checked Nov team ranking under current and new system. That's too different. It will be really interesting to see how ranking affects seeding in 2018 WTTTC.

Men's team Nov-current Nov-new
1 CHN CHN
2 GER JPN
3 JPN GER
4 FRA FRA
5 KOR HKG
6 SWE POR
7 TPE TPE
8 POR SWE
Women's team Nov-current Nov-new
1 CHN CHN
2 JPN JPN
3 TPE HKG
4 HKG TPE
5 KOR KOR
6 SGP ROU
7 ROU HUN
8 GER NED

Rain
I didn't even bother to go check, as I don't have so much time like you
What I did check was the world tour ranking during the previous post somewhere, and so many countries this year have participated in 6 tours (meaning lots of 7 or 8 tours could get higher points than them).
Based by a quick brain calculation, it will place them very weak for next year's ranking

based on your table - Korea is out of the top 8 for mens - we all know that isn't a true reflection on playing level.
Any ways, if Germany plays China before SF, then it is disappointing

NextLevel · Nov 15, 2017

Tony's Table Tennis said:
Rain
I didn't even bother to go check, as I don't have so much time like you
What I did check was the world tour ranking during the previous post somewhere, and so many countries this year have participated in 6 tours (meaning lots of 7 or 8 tours could get higher points than them).
Based by a quick brain calculation, it will place them very weak for next year's ranking

based on your table - Korea is out of the top 8 for mens - we all know that isn't a true reflection on playing level.
Any ways, if Germany plays China before SF, then it is disappointing

Germany was seeded #2 in the last WTTTC. Look at what happened with Boll injured and Dima not playing.

In the end, no system is going to be 100% perfect.

Tony's Table Tennis · Nov 15, 2017

NextLevel said:
Germany was seeded #2 in the last WTTTC. Look at what happened with Boll injured and Dima not playing.

In the end, no system is going to be 100% perfect.

last WTTTC for Germany was unfortunate - but they were seeded correctly.

If the whole CNT team ends up injured but going in was seeded correctly, then i'm not sure what you are trying to proof

seeding/ranking is linked
Injured before or during tournament has nothing to do with seeding/ranking

If you prefer participation ranking vs level ranking, then good for you, you can get a job at ittf

NextLevel · Nov 15, 2017

Tony's Table Tennis said:
last WTTTC for Germany was unfortunate - but they were seeded correctly.

If the whole CNT team ends up injured but going in was seeded correctly, then i'm not sure what you are trying to proof

seeding/ranking is linked
Injured before or during tournament has nothing to do with seeding/ranking

If you prefer participation ranking vs level ranking, then good for you, you can get a job at ittf

No, they were not. Boll had worse results coming into the tournament and there was no way that even with Dima they would have performed well. So they should have had a lower level coming in based on recent participation. Even Korea, they are gaining the benefit of an injured Jeung being overrated in the current ranking. If his playing level returns, fine, but right now, his results in the WTTC and other events as well as his not playing do not make him an easy top 10 player like he was before. Only Lee Sang Su is performing consistently well with Sangeun performing inconsistently and Woojin bring it up slowly.

You can say what you want about being ranked but participation matters. The new ranking is not so far off the old ranking.

TT Guru · Nov 23, 2017

Dimitrij Ovtcharov is almost certain to be no.1 in January. The only possible way for Fan Zhendong to be ranked higher is if Dima loses in 1st round at WTGF and Fan wins the whole event.

Talk about pressure!

rainneverever · Nov 23, 2017

Will Dima's dream come true?

TT Guru · Nov 23, 2017

Any translation for the above?

Andy44 · Nov 23, 2017

"I dream of leading the WR even if this is almost impossible with the strength of the Chinese. A World Cup singles medal and another chance at an Olympic medal in singles are my career goals. But I'm happy about every success and saddened by all defeats... Dima"

Suga D · Nov 23, 2017

Suga D said:
Not only that!

Good results don't get rewarded like they used to.
Example: let's say Alexander Valuch faces Xu Xin in the first round of a tournament. And now let's imagine he catches XX on a bad day and manages to win against him.
Then in the next round he has to face Jakub Dyjas and gets a 4:0 beating.
But now because he didn't manage to reach semis or finals guess how many points Valuch gets for his win over XX???

Exactly: ZILCH! ZERO! NADA! Not a damn point!

Opposed to the recent ranking system, where he would get at least a few points as a little reward!

@ TT Guru:
I couldn't find any reaction to this. What are your thoughts about this? Would be interesting to know.

NextLevel · Nov 23, 2017

Suga D said:
@ TT Guru:
I couldn't find any reaction to this. What are your thoughts about this? Would be interesting to know.

This is what happens on the ATP tour currently btw. You beat Roger Federer or Rafa Nadal, lose in the next round, you get exactly the same impact on your ranking as if you beat any other two players.

TT Guru · Nov 24, 2017

Suga D said:
@ TT Guru:
I couldn't find any reaction to this. What are your thoughts about this? Would be interesting to know.

NextLevel has summed it up pretty well. It's important not to examine one system with the other system still in mind. Things are going to change drastically starting in January, they will take some time to equalise. If players want to reach the top they must have quality results regularly. It's no longer a case of looking at the draw and discovering the opponents are ranked too high or too low for a player to stand much chance of improving his/her own rank. With more players entering more events the draws will be exciting and offer a better experience to a wider audience. The players themselves will benefit based on how much effort they put in. Planning a full calendar of events and performing well should correlate to a high ranking, not attending four times in a year (Ding Ning). If a player is injured then that is a disadvantage to them. Why should they be able to retain their position by sitting at home most of the year while others are playing 12+ competitions and fighting against the tide?

We all want to see the top players play, not just their names on a list. With this new WR we can have both.

Suga D · Nov 24, 2017

Thanks a lot for your replies.

That makes sense in a way, still i think we will have to wait and see how it all works out.
A change is not necessarily always a change for the better.
I mean just look at the ball change,
At first many amateures complained of inconsistent quality, which seems to have become better. But now many top pros started complaining, because of so many varying ball types.

What a mess. I don't think that was how it was intended to be.

langel · Nov 24, 2017

Suga D said:
Thanks a lot for your replies.

That makes sense in a way, still i think we will have to wait and see how it all works out.
A change is not necessarily always a change for the better.
I mean just look at the ball change,
At first many amateures complained of inconsistent quality, which seems to have become better. But now many top pros started complaining, because of so many varying ball types.

What a mess. I don't think that was how it was intended to be.

After the first complains about ABS quality I started to look at the Kingniks' ABS balls, they still don't have a three star ABS and I think thats the fair play with customers. When Kingnik start to release a three star ABS I may decide to try it. Till then I'll stick to seamless.

Suga D · Nov 24, 2017

langel said:
After the first complains about ABS quality I started to look at the Kingniks' ABS balls, they still don't have a three star ABS and I think thats the fair play with customers. When Kingnik start to release a three star ABS I may decide to try it. Till then I'll stick to seamless.

I don´t want to get off-topic too much, so just a two-liner:
that might be fine and apply to you if play at home or just privately at your club, but if you play competitive in a league or tournaments you can NOT decide with what you play, you HAVE to use what´s there!

langel · Nov 24, 2017

Yes, that's right.
Of course in tournaments you can't play with other ball than the official one.
But it does not mean that players should not share their attitude. On the contrary - the more attitudes shared, the better reactions from all partyes involved.

Suga D · Nov 24, 2017

langel said:
Yes, that's right.
Of course in tournaments you can't play with other ball than the official one.
But it does not mean that players should not share their attitude. On the contrary - the more attitudes shared, the better reactions from all partyes involved.

Understood.

Well, maybe I´m just not smart enough to understand your kind of logic, but to me your post misses my point entirely.

I wrote that time will tell if the new ranking system will show if it´s good or not and added that so far not every change made was a good change, by giving the example of the desastrous ball change.

The way I understand your post is, you seem to say that the ball change wasn´t so bad after all, if everybody would use the seamless ball. Hence the new ranking system just must be lovely as well...

Well, welcome to the forum, Mr. Shararah
[Emoji2]
I´m quite glad we´re not forced to use his sh*tty balls...

Back to the ranking system:

Let´s talk about this in a year or two again.

The New World Ranking System Explained - January 2018!

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