Backhand blocking finally clicked for me

songdavid98 · Nov 10, 2017

Just want to talk about my experience:

A while back, I wanted to try out backhand lobbing a little. I've never really lobbed much, since I'm usually attacking, and so I figured that a lob is probably like a long-distance block (I wasn't going for high lobs). And it worked out. The motion was a little bigger than I'd expected, but it wasn't too difficult to control.

A week ago, I thought about the reverse idea: what if I made my backhand blocks into close-table lobs? Now, I was always super bad at blocking (I'm a lefty penhold looper with RPB

). It was never something I could rely on in a match, and so I never did it. I would always mess up my block somehow: whether it be the timing, the spin. Most of the time, my paddle didn't even touch the ball at all. If I did, it would sometimes hit my finger, or hit the net, or go out. It wasn't consistent at all.

So I decided to go about blocking by treating with as a close-table lob. And it worked for me! I've practiced about a week like this and I feel way better about staying in the rally. I was finally able to do practice drills without apologizing for my shitty blocks. I guess my initial blocking stroke was too small and I was probably too close to the table, making it hard for me to make micro-adjustments. I found that my new blocking stoke goes upward much more than before. I was under the impression that blocking was just a forward movement (i guess it can be, but that's a different kind of block I guess).

This isn't the first time I've done something like this (spinny smash = counter-loop). Either way, I'm happy!

EDIT: I'm an RPB player. And not really asking for advice; I just wanted to share my experience

Nuke Skywalker · Nov 10, 2017

Nice diary of the growth you are experiencing. Question, are you a Traditional Backhand or Reverse Penhold Backhand (aka TBH or RPB)?

I used to play Jpen before converting to a SH chopper, and the TBH was the hardest part of the game to improve on..very hard to loop and most people fish or block on that side. There is a Jpen player at my club (Der_Echte knows him) who is very good at all of it, and can generate topspin when he fishes...it's very odd. His style is very nice and aesthetically pleasing, but there is an element of desception on his BH...people always underestimate the spin thinking it's less or more.

His close to the table topspin "fish" is more like a loop because of the subtle motion he makes at contact...and sometimes more spinny than some people's BH loops.

sanavasaraja · Nov 10, 2017

Right on! Awesome! Happy for you!

shinshiro · Nov 11, 2017

I couldn't block very well with TBH. Compared to SH, I wasn't able to close the racket enough, so my blocks were very high and I used to miss the table or give very easy balls for the oponent. That is the main reason I came back to SH.

Nuke Skywalker said:
Nice diary of the growth you are experiencing. Question, are you a Traditional Backhand or Reverse Penhold Backhand (aka TBH or RPB)?

I used to play Jpen before converting to a SH chopper, and the TBH was the hardest part of the game to improve on..very hard to loop and most people fish or block on that side. There is a Jpen player at my club (Der_Echte knows him) who is very good at all of it, and can generate topspin when he fishes...it's very odd. His style is very nice and aesthetically pleasing, but there is an element of desception on his BH...people always underestimate the spin thinking it's less or more.

His close to the table topspin "fish" is more like a loop because of the subtle motion he makes at contact...and sometimes more spinny than some people's BH loops.

I have seen only one guy that could attack with TBH very confortable with spin. This is the video:

He can do some crazy TBH topspins...If I new something like that was possible, maybe I would have insisted a little more on playing jpen style.

Edit: another video that may be useful for TBH attackers. It is in japanese though...It is about "back drive". From what I could understand, he says to not twist your wrist/forearm to attack, and just move the racket upwards on the same direction that points the handle.

NextLevel · Nov 11, 2017

Wish I could congratulate you but while it is okay for matches, blocking with topspin during most drills causes people to miss. You need to learn to block flat or without arc.

songdavid98 · Nov 11, 2017

Nuke Skywalker said:
Nice diary of the growth you are experiencing. Question, are you a Traditional Backhand or Reverse Penhold Backhand (aka TBH or RPB)?

I used to play Jpen before converting to a SH chopper, and the TBH was the hardest part of the game to improve on..very hard to loop and most people fish or block on that side. There is a Jpen player at my club (Der_Echte knows him) who is very good at all of it, and can generate topspin when he fishes...it's very odd. His style is very nice and aesthetically pleasing, but there is an element of desception on his BH...people always underestimate the spin thinking it's less or more.

His close to the table topspin "fish" is more like a loop because of the subtle motion he makes at contact...and sometimes more spinny than some people's BH loops.

I have always used the Reverse Penhold Backhand. I have never practiced the TPB, but extremely rarely, it happens by accident (once in my 5 years of play).

I am a very aggressive player, so I'm looping both forehand and backhand. So I don't block much at all. When the ball goes to my backhand, I am ready to topspin it with RPB. And so, my TPB never gets used. It's like I'm a shakehand player

songdavid98 · Nov 11, 2017

NextLevel said:
Wish I could congratulate you but while it is okay for matches, blocking with topspin during most drills causes people to miss. You need to learn to block flat or without arc.

FOR ALL WHO SEE THIS: DO THIS!

Trust me, I know

I definitely know how annoying it is when the block comes back with a lot of topspin. It's downright evil when your opponent does this in the warmup in the tournament

I remember reading a post (maybe it was by you or Carl or something) about how the proper way to block in practice is to block flat.

Thanks for the warning anyways. I do know how much spin is appropriate in practice (it's not like I'm deliberately trying to give my practice partner a hard time). And I'm sure that the amount I'm giving is appropriate (similar to a medium-weak lob). And my practice partner (albeit ~1900) definitely doesn't have much trouble with my blocks in practice. If anything, I feel that my initial blocking stroke was too flat

*****************

On the side note: I would advise players to learn to do both. Knowing that there is a difference is the first step of the way. Some players don't know any better and do one or the other.

There's a time and place for everything! Sometimes a flat block doesn't work (against loops that are low, fast, not spin focused). Somtimes the spinnier one doesn't work (high and lots of spin).

TTHopeful · Nov 11, 2017

Keep bat angle open i say

Baal · Nov 11, 2017

The most important thing about BH blocking (or any other BH shot, but especially blocking) is you can't be reaching for the ball. You have to move to the ball. You have to take the ball in front of you. Otherwise you have no fine control and you will miss (or at the very least, you will have no control on where the ball goes). Nothing is more important than this. On your FH side you can get away with being a little bit out of position but on your BH side you will become erratic if you habitually stretch or reach for the ball.

If you can manage this everything else is pretty easy. It doesn't matter if you are SH or penholder, this is true. If your arm is reaching far across your body, you will lose all fine control in your muscles in forearm and wrist.

man_iii · Nov 12, 2017

Baal said:
The most important thing about BH blocking (or any other BH shot, but especially blocking) is you can't be reaching for the ball. You have to move to the ball. You have to take the ball in front of you. Otherwise you have no fine control and you will miss (or at the very least, you will have no control on where the ball goes). Nothing is more important than this. On your FH side you can get away with being a little bit out of position but on your BH side you will become erratic if you habitually stretch or reach for the ball.

If you can manage this everything else is pretty easy. It doesn't matter if you are SH or penholder, this is true. If your arm is reaching far across your body, you will lose all fine control in your muscles in forearm and wrist.

Maybe at high-level players do this. But I have been using Kreanga style BH loop/block on my RPB and it is Extremely effective. :-D I'm just a beginner player though.

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Baal · Nov 13, 2017

Jus remember that your BH is much more sensitive to positioning than your FH. Watch Kreanga closely. When he rips BHs the ball is always in the same place relative to his body.

ttmonster · Nov 13, 2017

Simple Golden truth about Backhand from Baal ! I did not want to derail the thread and because I respect song's usatt rating , I did not want to cause confusion , but some of the things he said initially might be confusing to a lot of people , because , lobbing , blocking , looping , fishing , and spinny blocking are different strokes ....

but irrespective of all that, no matter what stroke you play in backhand , you have to be in position and wait for the ball . If you are not doing that regardless of your level , BH is going to be weak and inconsistent ... it might work agianst somebody you play against you and they have a consistent stroke to your backhand , the moment you come up against different balls it will break down ... BH is very sensitive to change and footwork and timing is key

Baal said:
The most important thing about BH blocking (or any other BH shot, but especially blocking) is you can't be reaching for the ball. You have to move to the ball. You have to take the ball in front of you. Otherwise you have no fine control and you will miss (or at the very least, you will have no control on where the ball goes). Nothing is more important than this. On your FH side you can get away with being a little bit out of position but on your BH side you will become erratic if you habitually stretch or reach for the ball.

If you can manage this everything else is pretty easy. It doesn't matter if you are SH or penholder, this is true. If your arm is reaching far across your body, you will lose all fine control in your muscles in forearm and wrist.

songdavid98 · Nov 13, 2017

ttmonster said:
Simple Golden truth about Backhand from Baal ! I did not want to derail the thread and because I respect song's usatt rating , I did not want to cause confusion , but some of the things he said initially might be confusing to a lot of people , because , lobbing , blocking , looping , fishing , and spinny blocking are different strokes ....

but irrespective of all that, no matter what stroke you play in backhand , you have to be in position and wait for the ball . If you are not doing that regardless of your level , BH is going to be weak and inconsistent ... it might work agianst somebody you play against you and they have a consistent stroke to your backhand , the moment you come up against different balls it will break down ... BH is very sensitive to change and footwork and timing is key

Don't worry about my rating: say anything you want (internet freedom), as long as it's constructive

Thanks for the positioning advice from you and Baal. I'll keep it in mind. Now that I think about it, I probably didn't back off enough initially.

I guess when I get into the lobbing mindset, I am somehow able to get the timing, angle, and positioning right.

The original point of my thread was to tell people that I figured out a stroke by thinking of it in terms of another stroke. I kind of translated one stroke into another stroke, and my success with it what I wanted to share with you guys

I hope I didn't confuse anyone

ttmonster · Nov 13, 2017

Only thing to add is to keep your elbow stable and use it as the axis of rotation , atleast once you start the stroke ...

songdavid98 said:
Don't worry about my rating: say anything you want (internet freedom), as long as it's constructive

Thanks for the positioning advice from you and Baal. I'll keep it in mind. Now that I think about it, I probably didn't back off enough initially.

I guess when I get into the lobbing mindset, I am somehow able to get the timing, angle, and positioning right.

The original point of my thread was to tell people that I figured out a stroke by thinking of it in terms of another stroke. I kind of translated one stroke into another stroke, and my success with it what I wanted to share with you guys

I hope I didn't confuse anyone

Der_Echte01 · Nov 13, 2017

Somebody kick the tail of that worthless tt beach bum BH-Man from Mytt to comment.

I agree with Baal that every BH starts with being in position set, planted and ready to have stability and leverage. A slight squat to get eye level down and leverage counter topspin is good too.

I believe the BH block is the base shot from which some more aggressive bh shots emerge. Getting the basics of position leverage and loose muscles correct will be a good foundation to be able to execute a wide range of BH shots.

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Nuke Skywalker · Nov 13, 2017

I found this useful...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAGqB24skDY&t=9s

Nuke Skywalker · Nov 13, 2017

And this..

ttmonster · Nov 13, 2017

@Nuke Skywalker ... I think he is talking about RPB block

songdavid98 · Nov 13, 2017

Nuke Skywalker said:
I found this useful...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAGqB24skDY&t=9s

I guess I should have been more clear. I play the reverse penhold backhand and I'm not asking for advice (I appreciate it though).

Nuke Skywalker · Nov 13, 2017

ttmonster said:
@Nuke Skywalker ... I think he is talking about RPB block

Ah, RBP, my bad.

Backhand blocking finally clicked for me

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