Net height experiments - analysis - discussion.

yoass · Dec 7, 2017

OhWell said:
I do declare that there really truly is from now on a ban on ITTF making changes to the game for the sake of tv/screen viewership, which will only be lifted when all the improvements that can be made to pro TT production and camerawork for that same purpose have indeed and most definitely been made.

This is all such an enactment of generals following the learnings of last century’s battles.

TV is a thing of the past. It lost its relevance a decade or so ago, and the smell of the last remnants of its bloated corpse is nigh unbearable.

We should let it go. Synchronously watching a small number of channels in droves is a distant memory at best, or not evenna memory for those under 30. Let’s al bury that strange fixation, and let it go, move on, and focus on things that still do have some relevance to date. Every amateur’s footage on any site, any stream from any event, any capture playable on demand, any zealously composed fan montage.

OhWell · Dec 7, 2017

Yoass: tv or online, ittf - and equivalent for other sports - still has an interest in video broadcast of their events. Arguably, we can now consume much more video content, for the very reason you give. So video broadcast still matters.

jawien · Dec 7, 2017

[Netting Thread Hijacktination]
I guess the term "net height experiments" will get a different meaning after last few posts. Also who can't understand the nostalgia for the orange balls ...
; )

massa said:
By the way, imho a 1 cm increase on the net would make it better.
Less kill attacks on the receive and probably longer rallies

Gosh ... as much as I start to feel funny about this thread now, I have to mention I run across the scientific paper about it.

Quote "Statistical analysis of the influence of ball size and net height on the number of successful table
tennis trajectories using computer modeling is used to quantify the effects on trajectory
distribution functions. [...]
As an alternative option an increase of the net height is possible. For this, the character of the
game will change more strongly, because the possibilities for successful trajectories are
reduced limiting technical and tactical alternatives. A small increase of the net height could be
one option, where the basic character of the game is not too strongly modified, but reducing
especially the influence of the service.
[...] The question is if a possible gain in attractivity of table tennis for TV by such changes is worth the loss of key elements of existing table tennis
"

The whole conclusions are interesting.

Computer simulation of table tennis ball trajectories for studies of the influence of ball size and net height (PDF Download Available). Stefan Kemnitz, Alexander Kalentynev, Ralf Schneider and Tatyana Ivanovska. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/public..._of_the_influence_of_ball_size_and_net_height [accessed Dec 08 2017].

Lightzy · Dec 8, 2017

Really all the ITTF needs to do to get viewership is to make sure Bernardette keeps being Bernardette (You seen her last match? I think she's working up to coming in with a g-string bikini), and get a few more like her

Der_Echte · Dec 8, 2017

ITTF could use a Tanya Harding-like scandal... problem is, the world forget who she waz.

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 8, 2017

Perhaps a Nancy Kerrigan scandal instead.

jawien · Dec 30, 2017

massa said:
By the way, imho a 1 cm increase on the net would make it better.
Less kill attacks on the receive and probably longer rallies

... I know lots of you will probably hate me for bouncing this. I was playing with my friends yesterday and increased this god ... net height again. Yes I did ; )

I usually do this with my less experienced friends who are just starting the tt journey. This kind of play is not a good reference - what we established throughout the course of this thread. I kind of promised to perform tests, but here's the problem. My team friends (the three of them) are all playing with long or middle pimps, me normal inverted on both sides. Yesterday I kind of had a chance to test it with a good guy but people want to compete rather then experiment ... So we played one set and then my friend wanted a regular match ...

Here's my bold new daring idea ...

An Open Humble Petition to DAN and TOM

I was listening to your podcasts and you sometimes raise the topic. I don't know if you guys are open for this possibility or rather conservative, but would you consider performing - sort of - this net height review? You guys have figured all the angles already and you really know how to conduct it. I'm also such a big fan of your reviews and I value them so much ...

Plus I think you are on a level most of the experienced players could adhere to.

The reason is this. Simply - a LITTLE longer rallies : ) Not like those tiny ones interrupted right after the receive ...

Would a different net height help, or possibly make this holy grail of longer rallies possible? I don't know ... For what I tried with different people the game seems funny and I think promising. I also heard from time to time an opinion that because of better rubbers now (than like 20 years ago) this change could be beneficial. Serious people at least don't laugh at me when I raise the topic.

If you guys know how to get to Dan or Tom? Unless you wish to diverse and kill the topic on the spot ...

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 30, 2017

Wait, you are saying you have not been able to get players your level willing to do a decent and thorough “net-height-increase-test”. So you want Dan and Tom to do one for you? Is that right?

One thing I will say is, someone else testing a change in net height won’t let you or me know what it feels like to play with an increased net height.

Anyway. This makes me laugh.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

jawien · Dec 30, 2017

UpSideDownCarl said:
Wait, you are saying you have not been able to get players your level willing to do a decent and thorough “net-height-increase-test”. So you want Dan and Tom to do one for you? Is that right?
One thing I will say is, someone else testing a change in net height won’t let you or me know what it feels like to play with an increased net height.
Anyway. This makes me laugh.

Ha ha ... you never let people get away easy Carl, do you ..?

Yes they all play with pips, but ... I guess I'll have to organize somebody than - sure.

Yeah the attempt was bold, but I was secretly hoping if Dan or Tom would get interested than it could start to be a real fun ...

ok, ok ....

[Edit] On the other hand the topic is just "interesting" for me but possibly controversial to other people, so probably I should not try to put Dan or Tom on the spotlight ... I guess I have to do everything myself ...

NextLevel · Dec 30, 2017

jawien said:
Ha ha ... you never let people get away easy Carl, do you ..?

Yes they all play with pips, but ... I guess I'll have to organize somebody than - sure.

Yeah the attempt was bold, but I was secretly hoping if Dan or Tom would get interested than it could start to be a real fun ...

ok, ok ....

[Edit] On the other hand the topic is just "interesting" for me but possibly controversial to other people, so probably I should not try to put Dan or Tom on the spotlight ... I guess I have to do everything myself ...

I support and approve this message (the request to Dan and Tom).

jawien · Dec 30, 2017

NextLevel said:
I support and approve this message (the request to Dan and Tom).

Thanks : )

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 30, 2017

NextLevel said:
I support and approve this message (the request to Dan and Tom).

Hahahaha. I have no problem with Dan and Tom videoing results of them trying out an increased net height.

But that is different than me wanting them to do it because I have not got it together to do it myself.

In fact, if the change was definitely in the works, and there was a date for when the change would be implemented, I have a feeling that Dan might do the test without being asked.

And if the change was imminent, I may care more about wanting Dan to do a video. But I would be sure to test it out myself and I would test it with someone good enough to limit my options and make me work for every point.

It would be interesting to see if a change in net height would lengthen rallies. I am not sure what would actually be the effect.

But, perhaps Matt Hetherington has an opinion on net height. Hahahaha. [emoji2]

jawien · Dec 30, 2017

UpSideDownCarl said:
[...] But that is different than me wanting them to do it because I have not got it together to do it myself. [...]
And if the change was imminent, I may care more about wanting Dan to do a video. But I would be sure to test it out myself and I would test it with someone good enough to limit my options and make me work for every point. [...]
[emoji2]

Carl, I have a feeling you are referring to me here ... don't you?

I think there are two things worth distinguishing and separating:

One (less important) - ok in your eyes I sort of "haven't done the homework" and in a way I'm asking Dan to do it for me - sure - valid point. As you can see I was aware of it and notice my humor and light tone when asking Tom and Dan so they would not feel offended in any way.

Second (much more important : ) - I think NextLevel was "approving" it because objectively review performed, not by them necessarily, but by anybody with appropriate level and experience, would be much more accurate and "up to the point" than mine for sure. Would be much more meaningful for the whole topic. They are probably busy with their online course and might have no time or no interest. A light tone and a pure fun of the topic should be the main theme here.

Would I feel released from performing tests myself if such a review would be created - absolutely not. All in all net height topic isn't completely off the track. Actually the podcasts I wrote about where to best source for me about it.

UpSideDownCarl said:
But, perhaps Matt Hetherington has an opinion on net height. Hahahaha. [emoji2]

May I ask what opinion?

Btw. Is there a way to "invite" somebody to the thread?

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 31, 2017

jawien said:
May I ask what opinion?
Btw. Is there a way to "invite" somebody to the thread?

I am joking around. Matt is a semi-pro player who has been vocal in the past about hating the idea that ITTF is even thinking about increasing the net height.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

jawien · Dec 31, 2017

UpSideDownCarl said:
I am joking around. Matt is a semi-pro player who has been vocal in the past about hating the idea that ITTF is even thinking about increasing the net height.

Yeah, I have an impression the more professional a player is the more irritated he gets with topics like this one. Any change must somehow resets the player and his training process.

In one of Dan/Tom's podcasts Gionis Panagiotis also didn't sound to happy about such an idea.

Ok, I need to find somebody just for the fun of it.

Net height experiments - analysis - discussion.

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