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    1. Top | #1
      ajtatosmano2 is offline
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      Tips driving against short pips

      Hi,
      we have a guy in the club who uses short pips on his backhand for attacking. He doesn't use it to just hit or block, but mostly like it would be an inverted with small spin. Regarding his playing level: I am not too familiar with the USATT ratings, but I estimate him around 2400 (mistyping, wanted to write 2300) points (might be wrong, but don't think he is much lower level), so he is a good player with solid technique.
      So, my problem is how to deal with his BH drives. Speaking about spin they are pretty inconsistent (intentionally), sometimes they come with spin, sometimes they're dead. I can read them, but very often I am late and I don't have much time to adjust my stroke well on the BH side. On the FH I don't have such problems, because if they appear I am already outplayed

      So, what should I practice, half step back and start more looping/loopdriving short pip balls, or stay close and adjust my drive? With time I will learn both as I will be more familiar with half-dead balls, but I rarely play with SP players outside the league (and those are using it differently) and I ask where to start?
      And any other tips against such players (I know I know...video..)? I usually lost around 6 balls per set on just slightly mistreating those SP shots...and it's pissing me off, because without such a problem we could play fairly close games.
      Last edited by ajtatosmano2; 12-13-2017 at 05:57 PM.

    2. Top | #2
      suds79 is offline
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      My experience has been when I'm playing attackers who have shorts pips is that I find I have to open the face of my blade more and hit more into the ball. Otherwise, I find it's easy to put into the net.

      But I'm thinking of a time when I played someone with short pips and they were either using a real thin sponge or OX. I can't remember. So their speed on the ball was a pinch slower than what I was used to which explains why I had to hit more into the ball to get it over the net.

      But yes try that. Try opening the face of the blade some. If you hit with him enough, you should be able to adjust.

      Having said that, if you are playing someone who is USATT 2400ish, I don't know about you, but that's getting in the realm of seriously one of the better players in the country. So just appreciate the practice and know there's probably nothing you'll be able to do to slow him down. :P

      j/k Maybe you're 2400 yourself so it's more even.

      PS - there's a funny term I once heard someone use and that's "Spin leeches". It's people who can spin it up but they need or use a lot of the spin coming form the player hitting to them. I think we all do it to some extent. That's where I try to find good practice even if I'm hitting with newer players because they don't hit with hardly any spin at all. It's good to hit with people who either by design (like the guy you mentioned) or not (because they're new) who don't hit spin so you can truly learn how to generate it on your own.
      Last edited by suds79; 12-13-2017 at 03:56 PM.

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    4. Top | #3
      songdavid98 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by ajtatosmano2 View Post
      Hi,
      we have a guy in the club who uses short pips on his backhand for attacking. He doesn't use it to just hit or block, but mostly like it would be an inverted with small spin. Regarding his playing level: I am not too familiar with the USATT ratings, but I estimate him around 2400 points (might be wrong, but don't think he is much lower level), so he is a good player with solid technique.
      So, my problem is how to deal with his BH drives. Speaking about spin they are pretty inconsistent (intentionally), sometimes they come with spin, sometimes they're dead. I can read them, but very often I am late and I don't have much time to adjust my stroke well on the BH side. On the FH I don't have such problems, because if they appear I am already outplayed

      So, what should I practice, half step back and start more looping/loopdriving short pip balls, or stay close and adjust my drive? With time I will learn both as I will be more familiar with half-dead balls, but I rarely play with SP players outside the league (and those are using it differently) and I ask where to start?
      And any other tips against such players (I know I know...video..)? I usually lost around 6 balls per set on just slightly mistreating those SP shots...and it's pissing me off, because without such a problem we could play fairly close games.
      Are you talking about Shao Yu?

      It depends on your playstyle. As a someone who likes to loop with power, I would back up a little, and start looping. I have some time to adjust to the amount of spin. In any case, I wouldn't risk doing a drive if his backhand shot comes too fast or too deep. A deep dead ball is difficult to drive back, in my opinion.

      Since you say that you are able to read the spin, just make sure that you are reacting to them better.
      Always go forward

    5. Top | #4
      ajtatosmano2 is offline
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      Wow. I mistyped, originally I wanted to wrote 2300, but again I am not too familiar with USATT ratings. He plays around second league level in Hungary which is maybe similar to Oberliga? level in Germany (I don't really know again). I've found a video about him playing a few points, better than nothing.
      Here he is lazy (just like against me ) Nowadays he is in a better physical shape and usually plays a faster game than in this video (or just against his partners in our club).

      He changed to short pips only as an adult (maybe in a few years back), so he isn't hitting all the time, but also likes to spin with it.

    6. Top | #5
      countrybread is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by ajtatosmano2 View Post
      Wow. I mistyped, originally I wanted to wrote 2300, but again I am not too familiar with USATT ratings. He plays around second league level in Hungary which is maybe similar to Oberliga? level in Germany (I don't really know again). I've found a video about him playing a few points, better than nothing.
      Here he is lazy (just like against me ) Nowadays he is in a better physical shape and usually plays a faster game than in this video (or just against his partners in our club).

      He changed to short pips only as an adult (maybe in a few years back), so he isn't hitting all the time, but also likes to spin with it.
      Is he the player in blue?

    7. Top | #6
      ajtatosmano2 is offline
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      Yes, he is .

    8. Top | #7
      tropical is offline
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      He is probably around 2400-2500, a very good player who can basically play many solid different strokes and has good foot work too. I know a player around 2200 in my club who plays SP on BH just like him. She beat many people her level and a bit higher. However she lost easily to 2400 players who have strong forehand loop.
      Then folks who lost to her practice more with her. When they got to now her spin, ball positioning they now beat her.

      So I guess my answer is you need to practice more with similar style then if you have a strong forehand you can beat him (assuming you are around 2300-2400 level.)

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    10. Top | #8
      danisius is offline
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      I`m short pips player (definitely at lower level compared with your opponent) and from my point of view and experience i can advice you several things.

      1. Increase spin at maximum and lower speed against the pip, there will be moments of regret because he will be still able to kill some of the balls.
      2. Serve long no/side spin balls , he will definitely attack that ball you must be ready to kill it. As reference look at Ovtcharov vs Tang Peng matches. The ball comes to you with little to no spin so just need to be on time to hit it.
      3. Another options is to loop with change of spin and depth against pip, it could be very difficult if he is able to maintain speed so will need to move a little bit take ball later and fast footwork. You should be able to attack/loop with forhand/backhand.
      4. Play against his forehand you will get consistent balls

      Here is video of me (in blue)
      Last edited by danisius; 12-15-2017 at 09:15 AM.

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    12. Top | #9
      Xylit is offline
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      The most important thing is to understand the basics of the mechanics of pips, no matter whether long or short. It will be much easier afterwards to find good tactics against them (which is still dependent on the specific opponent). One will also understand why you have to open the racket a bit more for a block against a short pips topspin. I guess there are plenty good videos out there which are worth a watch.

    13. Top | #10
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xylit View Post
      The most important thing is to understand the basics of the mechanics of pips, no matter whether long or short. It will be much easier afterwards to find good tactics against them (which is still dependent on the specific opponent). One will also understand why you have to open the racket a bit more for a block against a short pips topspin. I guess there are plenty good videos out there which are worth a watch.
      This is misleading. The most important thing is to practice against the pips and to get a better idea of what kinds of balls are generated in response to your incoming shots by reading your misses. The game is too fast for intellectual understanding to suffice and the level of this player is high enough that things are too quick for an intellectual approach to be the mainstay.

      Usually when playing pips, the ideal approach is to try to get your spin level high enough for the ball to slide off the pips. The balls have to be placed seep on the table to make his angle into the table more risky. But this is one approach out of many but is the one I expect to hold promise against the player above as I don't expect him to heavily attack spinny balls if the ball is deep.

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    15. Top | #11
      ajtatosmano2 is offline
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      Thanks for the responses, I will post here what happened in our next match.

    16. Top | #12
      Xylit is offline
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      It is not misleading. If you invest only 15 minutes for a good video or text that explains how short pips work the next hours after that will be easier. I have never said that you are the master of defeating pips players then, of course practice is what wins you the games. But why not take a shortcut?

      Addint theory inputs to anyones training will work wonders.

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    18. Top | #13
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      Are you planning to participate in the christmas competition that has been floated in the Daily chat thread ? Looking forward to seeing you there ...
      Quote Originally Posted by Xylit View Post
      It is not misleading. If you invest only 15 minutes for a good video or text that explains how short pips work the next hours after that will be easier. I have never said that you are the master of defeating pips players then, of course practice is what wins you the games. But why not take a shortcut?

      Addint theory inputs to anyones training will work wonders.
      Lets go Spinny Looping !

    19. Top | #14
      Takkyu_wa_inochi is online now
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      It depends on each person's style, I like to stay close to the table.

      But here are some tips that were given to my coach against short pips players:
      - serve long. if you have a good long backspin serve, it will be difficult for them to do something aggressive with it. serving long flat or with topspin won me a few matches against SP players as well.
      - if you serve short, you really must keep the ball low because its easier for them to flick the ball and attack flat.

      I think also SP players like pace. If you play a bit more slowly (70% power) but spin, keep the ball low and deep it makes things much more difficult for them. BH to BH, don't try to match their speed, favour always putting YOUR spin instead of blocking the ball fast and sacrificing spin.

      If you want to make a more aggressive shot, instead of using power, try to time the attack to get the ball more early than usual.

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