Ovtcharov an FZD not shaking hands

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I think this topic should be closed, I agree that you should respect a persons beliefs, but i also think we shouldn't dive on someone who takes issue with women not being afforded the same rights and oppertunites as men in some instances such as in kazakh (although on the way out for a while now) the tradition of bride kidnapping which i personally will not celebrate.
However its a moot point and we are here to talk table tennis not international womens rights or the differences in social norms can we not talk about how well the match went?
 
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The tradition of bride kidnapping? No such thing. Source: I'm half Kazakh and frequent the country. Trust me, you'd be charged with abduction and jailed for a long time. Also lol'd at shaking hands being considered a right or an opportunity. I mean the gist of your message is right of course, but let's not get silly.
 
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I think that you should re think what you just said.


Actually I re-read and re-think most of (if not all) the things that I write before posting it. So, what exactly seems to be the problem?
Let me guess: Because I wrote "...merely a "robotic" reaction." you now think that shaking hands after the match and good sportsmanship in general is totally unimportant and superfluous to me?!? Well, guess what, it is not.

Short version: "robotic" reaction = (professional) players are usually still in playing mode while shaking hands (with the umpires)

Long version: When I write "robotic" reaction I am just pointing out to the fact that many players, in particular professional ones, are still in heavy playing mode seconds (or even minutes) after the match. I am not questioning the custom of shaking hands after a match at all, but you wanna make me look that way to a certain degree by taking this sentence out of context. It seems to me that you are artificially creating a problem at my expenses where there is actually none. Anyway, so when it's time to shake hands, sometimes some players only realize in that moment, that because of cultural/ religious circumstances it's not possible for the female muslim umpires to shake their hand. So the players slightly bow or nod their head, and that's it. No big deal for everyone involved...
Do I blame the players for still being in playing mode while shaking hands? Certainly not. Do I blame female muslim umpires for acting according to their religious beliefs? Certainly not.
So, in the end I give you the benefit of doubt, that you somehow misread my comment/ wording. Please take also in account that english is actually not my first language, so there could be nuances in my wording here and there that could be slightly "misleading"...Furthermore I would like you to not take things out of context (more or less) randomly, simply because I tend to give long explanations occasionally. Thank you.

Jimbo
 
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The tradition of bride kidnapping? No such thing. Source: I'm half Kazakh and frequent the country. Trust me, you'd be charged with abduction and jailed for a long time. Also lol'd at shaking hands being considered a right or an opportunity. I mean the gist of your message is right of course, but let's not get silly.
Officialy its 7-12 years i believe. However feel free to peruse some journal articles and theses about the state of such?
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...a_sevara.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0psYEUKP5xb4PptPm6dVbS
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/hrlc/d...n-kapyshevawomen27s-rights-full-paper-(1).pdf
http://www.academia.edu/3894408/Wom...al_Bride_Kidnapping_in_Post-Soviet_Kazakhstan
i left out the obvious inflammatory google search terms so you could have something more substantial.
 
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Obviously this user has grown up isolated from the world
Imagine one complains that the female player is wearing long pants/top or wearing a hijab
or this user bring his wife/girlfriend/daughter/sister to Saudi and wears a bikini and then wonders why his international etiquette doesn't work

International etiquette is firstly defined as showing respect to someone else
I guess we can't speak on the same tune with someone who doesn't care what Chinese, Indians, Russians and Portuguese do in they own country, as simply I believe in do as the Romans do - that to me is the basis on International Etiquette
Yes, Tony you are right
 
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In the eyes and laws of table tennis, the ITTF rules and regulations also caters for Muslim people
No table tennis manner is being destroyed
I don,t mean not shake hand would destory table tennis manner, I mean people should not argue or say anything bad to other countries , culture... etc
 
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anyway just leave it, I don,t think I should be involved , I play table tennis everywhere for a long time, I have no problem to play with anybody or any country.
 
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Can we lock this thread, please. The question has been answered and this is a TT forum, not a political or religious debate forum. Thanks.

i'm actually mix minded about locking this thread
in a way, the OP asked a valid question - but heck the subject line is a bait
I think it is good general knowledge for those who haven't engage other cultures in TT

But for ones that are taking ultimate supremacy over others - we can simply just ignore such person

I don't think there is much religious or political debate so far, but rather everyone is disgusted by such ultimate supremacy character - which means we pretty much are all united to a fair play (fan) award
 
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i'm actually mix minded about locking this thread
in a way, the OP asked a valid question - but heck the subject line is a bait
I think it is good general knowledge for those who haven't engage other cultures in TT

But for ones that are taking ultimate supremacy over others - we can simply just ignore such person

I don't think there is much religious or political debate so far, but rather everyone is disgusted by such ultimate supremacy character - which means we pretty much are all united to a fair play (fan) award

Keep the thread going, it isn't overly nasty as yet. There are enough experienced and articulate people on here (I hope) to keep the younger ones on track.
I for one did not know that muslim women do not shake the hands of men. Is it just some women or some obscure tradition, or is a general thing fully observed even by non-practising muslims?
 
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If in some countries man cannot shake hands with women, should the referee be a man on men's matches and a woman in women's matches?
But anyway, we should respect each other and the players didn't bother with not shaking hands with the referee so why do we need to bother?
 
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Keep the thread going, it isn't overly nasty as yet. There are enough experienced and articulate people on here (I hope) to keep the younger ones on track.
I for one did not know that muslim women do not shake the hands of men. Is it just some women or some obscure tradition, or is a general thing fully observed even by non-practising muslims?

Yeah. I saw that things had calmed down a bit and I feel there was some good info about what happened. So, unless things escalate, I feel the thread is fine.

If Dan or Giang decide differently, that will be fine too.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
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Keep the thread going, it isn't overly nasty as yet. There are enough experienced and articulate people on here (I hope) to keep the younger ones on track.
I for one did not know that muslim women do not shake the hands of men. Is it just some women or some obscure tradition, or is a general thing fully observed even by non-practising muslims?

From my limited experience and understanding, you get strict and not so strict (if I can call it like that).
strict would require hijab and no contact etc.
not so strict would be fine with contact

One of my former students (coached her briefly in 2012 to the national cadet title) is a Muslim girl
After 2 years later - first time I saw her in shorts, then I question her - how come she is allowed to wear shorts (she always had long pants on). She said it was only during certain period (like fasting) that she can't wear shorts
She never wore a hijab and contact (high 5s) was allowed.
Her mom would always wear a hijab, and till this date, there was no physical contact, only greeted with a smile and a gentle bow of head
 
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Keep the thread going, it isn't overly nasty as yet. There are enough experienced and articulate people on here (I hope) to keep the younger ones on track.
I for one did not know that muslim women do not shake the hands of men. Is it just some women or some obscure tradition, or is a general thing fully observed even by non-practising muslims?

Mabye what I wrote is not related to tt but its about your question . some muslim women like to have hijab and some dont . generally its like this . But if the country is ismalic women should have hijab but when they go abroad for their own or for private reasons they can remove it if they dont like . but if they want to reperesnt their islamic country as an athlete , actor , politician , umpire , ... they should obey the islamic rules . so if a women from islamic country like this umpire on the final doesnt shake hand with players its not just about being muslim its about the rule of their country which they should obey even out of their country when they represent it .
 
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