Stiga Infinity VPS V or Emerald VPS V

hanslenon · Dec 29, 2017

Please help me decide whether i should choose the infinity vps v or the emerald vps v
im currently using a stiga allround nct with yinhe venus 2 FH and mark v BH
the allround nct is what ive been using since i started playing table tennis and now the vibration feels too much for me
but im scared that if i choose the emerald it will be too stiff and not have any vibration or feel at all, can you give me
advise?

Floris · Dec 29, 2017

Infinity is a great blade. I own two. They are cheaper and easier to control than Emerald.

yogi_bear · Dec 30, 2017

Infinity vibrates more than emerald

TTHopeful · Dec 30, 2017

Which one is faster?

G_ZHANG · Dec 30, 2017

infinity vps v is better than emerald vps v.
emerald blade has a weird feeling that most people don't like.

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 30, 2017

hanslenon said:
Please help me decide whether i should choose the infinity vps v or the emerald vps v
im currently using a stiga allround nct with yinhe venus 2 FH and mark v BH
the allround nct is what ive been using since i started playing table tennis and now the vibration feels too much for me
but im scared that if i choose the emerald it will be too stiff and not have any vibration or feel at all, can you give me
advise?

What is your level? How long have you been playing?

Emerald has a pretty hard top ply which makes it much harder to spin the ball unless your technique is pretty high level.

Infinity is a decent blade and will feel more like it is in the same spectrum as your Allround NCT. The top ply of both blades is the same. Infinity is just faster.

You could also think about the Stiga Offensive Classic, Butterfly Primorac Off-, or many other blades that are 1+ steps up in speed. The blades I just mentioned would be faster than the Allround NCT and a tiny bit slower than the Infinity so, more control and more of an ability to spin the ball.

But the Infinity may be fine. It is a good blade that is decently fast but not toooooo fast.

hanslenon · Dec 30, 2017

UpSideDownCarl said:
What is your level? How long have you been playing?

Emerald has a pretty hard top ply which makes it much harder to spin the ball unless your technique is pretty high level.

Infinity is a decent blade and will feel more like it is in the same spectrum as your Allround NCT. The top ply of both blades is the same. Infinity is just faster.

You could also think about the Stiga Offensive Classic, Butterfly Primorac Off-, or many other blades that are 1+ steps up in speed. The blades I just mentioned would be faster than the Allround NCT and a tiny bit slower than the Infinity so, more control and more of an ability to spin the ball.

But the Infinity may be fine. It is a good blade that is decently fast but not toooooo fast.

I've been playing for 3 and 1/2 years now, i've played at my colleges inter course competition and i've been in the inter college team. now im a varsity player in my university.

would my current rubbers suit the infinity?

also have you tried both of them? if so what rubbers were you using?

i appreciate the help

mwu2120 · Dec 31, 2017

I've had an infinity, i dont know why but i absolutely hated the it. felt like i was using a dead cat.

yogi_bear · Dec 31, 2017

Emerald is faster. Think of it as an ebenholz with no nct coating and less harder. Yes, it feels weird for some people but it is a good blade. I prefer the eb v over the emerald.

Jimbob MacInbred · Dec 31, 2017

@OP

You have watched Dan's reviews on both the Emerald an the Infinity, haven't you? You don't find it any useful?

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/equipment/blades/8860-emerald-vps-v
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/equipment/blades/7620-infinity-vps-v

Slightly off-topic (since Stiga's NCT stuff was mentioned again): I don't believe that NCT is a coating or sealing of some sort. What I read, leads me to believe that it has something to do with the glue that is being used for these blades. A coating would have an influence on the hardness of a blade, whereas a composite glue would have a significant influence on the stiffness of a blade, no?

hanslenon · Dec 31, 2017

Jimbob MacInbred said:
@OP

You have watched Dan's reviews on both the Emerald an the Infinity, haven't you? You don't find it any useful?

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/equipment/blades/8860-emerald-vps-v
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/equipment/blades/7620-infinity-vps-v

Slightly off-topic (since Stiga's NCT stuff was mentioned again): I don't believe that NCT is a coating or sealing of some sort. What I read, leads me to believe that it has something to do with the glue that is being used for these blades. A coating would have an influence on the hardness of a blade, whereas a composite glue would have a significant influence on the stiffness of a blade, no?

yeah ive watched both of the reviews multiple times, i just wanted to get a more broad opinion on what blade should i get because dan's opinion is one thing and you guys are another sooo thats that.

have you used the two? (infinity and emerald)?

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 31, 2017

Jimbob MacInbred said:
Slightly off-topic (since Stiga's NCT stuff was mentioned again): I don't believe that NCT is a coating or sealing of some sort. What I read, leads me to believe that it has something to do with the glue that is being used for these blades. A coating would have an influence on the hardness of a blade, whereas a composite glue would have a significant influence on the stiffness of a blade, no?

Jimbob, you may be confusing NCT and VPS with Diamond Touch.

NCT is an actual physical layer of coating on the surface of the blade. Stiga is frustratingly vague about what it actually is. But any blade with the label NCT will have a coating over the blade face that is thick, clear, and quite visible. However, it is possible that, on these NCT blades, they use the same crystalline substance in the glue that bonds the plies. I have seen Stiga fill out the NCT abbreviation as "Nano Crystalline Technology". And now, more recently Stiga seems to be calling it Nano Composite Technology.

You can see the NCT coating. And if you search, there are threads on different forums (and TTDaily) about how to get rubbers to stick to the NCT coating. Rubbers used to come off it quite easily until Stiga Changed it a little.

Here is one quote:

"rosewood xo
high quality, good control, easy to play with, only problem rubber wont stick to the blade, anyone know how to solve this problem, please let me know.

John lee"

VPS with Diamond Touch: Here is Stiga's promotional info on VPS and Diamond Touch:

"Veneer Precision System (VPS) technology is built with two hand-selected middle veneers that are treated with a unique and exact heating and cooling process with precisely measured time and temperature. The Diamond Touch technology gives the outer veneers extra hardness and the surface an incredibly smooth finish; combined with the VPS technology the result is an offensive lightweight blade with outstanding solid touch and feeling."

Anyway, I am not sure any of this matters. Stiga is just notoriously vague about things they say make their blades special.

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 31, 2017

@hanslenon: The blade you have been using has a soft outer ply with the NCT coating that makes it crisper, but, still, not hard. Whereas, the Emerald, the outer ply is REALLY, hard.

Honestly, if you wanted to step up your blade, I would choose:

1) Butterfly Primorac Off-
2) Butterfly Korbel
3) Tibhar Stratus Power Wood
4) Nitakku Acoustic
5) OSP Virtuoso or V+

The Infinity would be okay, but, personally, I like all the blades I mentioned above better than the Infinity.

And, unless you were pretty high level and really liked blades with a HARD top ply that were unforgiving and demanded fairly high level technique to get spin from the blade, I would not go with the Emerald. And most high level players who use a blade with as hard a top ply as the Emerald, are using something underneath that ply, like ALC, that gives more dwell time for spinning the ball.

If your aim is to spin the ball on loops, I doubt you want the Emerald. Sorry. That is just my opinion. But I have a feeling the Emerald will lead you to flat hitting and cause your technique to plateau, because that is what it does best.

hanslenon · Dec 31, 2017

UpSideDownCarl said:
@hanslenon: The blade you have been using has a soft outer ply with the NCT coating that makes it crisper, but, still, not hard. Whereas, the Emerald, the outer ply is REALLY, hard.

Honestly, if you wanted to step up your blade, I would choose:

1) Butterfly Primorac Off-
2) Butterfly Korbel
3) Tibhar Stratus Power Wood
4) Nitakku Acoustic
5) OSP Virtuoso or V+

The Infinity would be okay, but, personally, I like all the blades I mentioned above better than the Infinity.

And, unless you were pretty high level and really liked blades with a HARD top ply that were unforgiving and demanded fairly high level technique to get spin from the blade, I would not go with the Emerald. And most high level players who use a blade with as hard a top ply as the Emerald, are using something underneath that ply, like ALC, that gives more dwell time for spinning the ball.

If your aim is to spin the ball on loops, I doubt you want the Emerald. Sorry. That is just my opinion. But I have a feeling the Emerald will lead you to flat hitting and cause your technique to plateau, because that is what it does best.

ill take a look at the primorac and the korbel when i go into the store, along with the infinity.
do you happen to know if the quality issues on the infinity are still present (splitting of the ply's)

Jimbob MacInbred · Dec 31, 2017

hanslenon said:
yeah ive watched both of the reviews multiple times, i just wanted to get a more broad opinion on what blade should i get because dan's opinion is one thing and you guys are another sooo thats that.

have you used the two? (infinity and emerald)?

I only own an Infinity, which I play on and off with different rubbers. The Infinity vibrates quite a bit and has a strange hollow feel to it (no matter what rubbber I've used). I've not touched the Emerald as of yet.

Jimbob MacInbred · Dec 31, 2017

UpSideDownCarl said:
Jimbob, you may be confusing NCT and VPS with Diamond Touch.

NCT is an actual physical layer of coating on the surface of the blade. Stiga is frustratingly vague about what it actually is. But any blade with the label NCT will have a coating over the blade face that is thick, clear, and quite visible. However, it is possible that, on these NCT blades, they use the same crystalline substance in the glue that bonds the plies. I have seen Stiga fill out the NCT abbreviation as "Nano Crystalline Technology". And now, more recently Stiga seems to be calling it Nano Composite Technology.

...
Anyway, I am not sure any of this matters. Stiga is just notoriously vague about things they say make their blades special.

I freely admit that I'm far from being an equipment expert. However I'm fully aware what VPS and Diamond Touch stands for and that it differs from the NCT stuff. NCT indeed is, as you mentioned, the acronym for Nano Composite Technology and it is certainly annoying that Stiga is so silent about it nowadays.
Before I returned to tt about 1,5 years ago I did quite some research on blades and rubbers. One of the blades I was briefly interested in was the Stiga Hybrid Wood NCT. Of course I didn't know what NCT meant back then and tried to get some information on it. I'm almost sure btw, that it was explained on the Stiga tt website back then (at least at some point), but for whatever reason they decided to remove the information. Anyway, to this day there are some shops that give information on Stiga`s NCT blades and they are always referring to the type of (composite) glue that is being used in these blades. A special coating is not mentioned.

Two examples:
http://www.dandoy-sports.com/stiga-hybrid-wood-nct.html
http://www.futurespin.de/tischtenni...nnisholz/stiga-hoelzer/stiga-hybrid-wood.html
(you probably need google translate for the second link, but it basically says the same)

These are basically the informations that I based my comment on.

I am aware that some shops sometimes release faulty or misleading informations, so we might have to take it with a grain of salt. If however these informations are reliable, then the NCT technology actually refers to a composite glue (which makes the blades stiffer and is therefore very similar to the CC (Chrystal Carbon) technology) and not to a coating of some kind. That doesn't mean of course, that the NCT blades cannot have an additional coating...

Furthermore I wouldn't necessarily say that these informations doesn't matter to the OP. He mentioned in his first comment that he is starting to dislike the vibrations on his Allround NCT. Now, if we are indeed talking about a composite glue in regards to the NCT, it would mean, that an NCT blade is on average stiffer than a regular all wood blade and that he would need an even stiffer blade than his Allround NCT, no?

hanslenon · Dec 31, 2017

Jimbob MacInbred said:
I freely admit that I'm far from being an equipment expert. However I'm fully aware what VPS and Diamond Touch stands for and that it differs from the NCT stuff. NCT indeed is, as you mentioned, the acronym for Nano Composite Technology and it is certainly annoying that Stiga is so silent about it nowadays.
Before I returned to tt about 1,5 years ago I did quite some research on blades and rubbers. One of the blades I was briefly interested in was the Stiga Hybrid Wood NCT. Of course I didn't know what NCT meant back then and tried to get some information on it. I'm almost sure btw, that it was explained on the Stiga tt website back then (at least at some point), but for whatever reason they decided to remove the information. Anyway, to this day there are some shops that give information on Stiga`s NCT blades and they are always referring to the type of (composite) glue that is being used in these blades. A special coating is not mentioned.

Two examples:
http://www.dandoy-sports.com/stiga-hybrid-wood-nct.html
http://www.futurespin.de/tischtenni...nnisholz/stiga-hoelzer/stiga-hybrid-wood.html
(you probably need google translate for the second link, but it basically says the same)

These are basically the informations that I based my comment on.

I am aware that some shops sometimes release faulty or misleading informations, so we might have to take it with a grain of salt. If however these informations are reliable, then the NCT technology actually refers to a composite glue (which makes the blades stiffer and is therefore very similar to the CC (Chrystal Carbon) technology) and not to a coating of some kind. That doesn't mean of course, that the NCT blades cannot have an additional coating...

Furthermore I wouldn't necessarily say that these informations doesn't matter to the OP. He mentioned in his first comment that he is starting to dislike the vibrations on his Allround NCT. Now, if we are indeed talking about a composite glue in regards to the NCT, it would mean, that an NCT blade is on average stiffer than a regular all wood blade and that he would need an even stiffer blade than his Allround NCT, no?

Yeah i would like a step up from my blade, one that would be faster but not too fast that i wouldn't be able to have control, i just want an upgrade from my beginner allround nct

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 31, 2017

hanslenon said:
Yeah i would like a step up from my blade, one that would be faster but not too fast that i wouldn't be able to have control, i just want an upgrade from my beginner allround nct

The blades I listed are all a decent step up from the Stiga Allround NCT. And, in my opinion they are all, in some way, better than the Infinity. The Infinity is also more delicate than any of them.

The least expensive one, the Stratus Power Wood, still has a more solid build quality than the Infinity. But the other blades are all way more solid than the SPW. They all will be faster, have good feeling, and not be too much of a jump from the Allround NCT.

The Primorac Off- and the Virtuoso Off- are a medium step up. The Korbel, SPW, V+ and Acoustic are a large step up. But they are still a step that a lower level intermediate player should be able to make gracefully. Those blades are about the speed of the Infinity.

Just on the subject of certain assumptions: Allround NCT is not a very stiff blade and I see no reason why, in selecting a faster blade you would also need a stiffer one.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 31, 2017

Jimbob MacInbred said:
NCT indeed is, as you mentioned, the acronym for Nano Composite Technology and it is certainly annoying that Stiga is so silent about it nowadays.

At some point, maybe 5-6 years ago, Stiga referred to NCT as the coating. Originally they said NCT stood for Nano Crystalline Technology. But now they changed "Crystalline" to "Composite". Not sure it matters.

The link you provided, it is interesting that it never specifically says it is referring to NCT but it does sound like Stiga's typical, vague, promotional material. And it does sound like it is referring to NCT since they use the term "carbon nanotubes". [emoji4] Now, it is possible that Stiga changed how they use NCT to some extent. I really am not sure. And it is possible that it refers to glue material in the glue between plies also, these days.

They did run into a lot of problems with people complaining about how you could not glue rubbers onto the NCT coating.

Have you found any blades that say NCT in the name that DO NOT have the coating that is easy to see in the photos of the Hybrid Wood blade from the Dandoy site?

It certainly is possible that Stiga abandoned the use of NCT solely for the coating. But, when NCT first came out, they specifically listed it as Nano Crystals in the lacquer. And I was surprised that I could not find it earlier because, way back, that was their standard explanation of what NCT meant: they definitely were originally calling it a coating.

Something worth looking at: This is Stiga promotion for a blade from maybe 15-20 years ago:

"On demand from players wanting a very fast blade with maintained maximum touch and feel, STIGA has launched the STIGA Carbo 7.6, a blade with completely new construction technology. The total number of layers is 13 (7 wood and 6 carbon). These microscopic carbon layers have been placed between each veneer. Thanks to the innovative construction of Carbo 7.6, the speed is increased without allowing the carbon to stop the natural movement and resilience of the veneer layers."

Now, in that Carbo 7.6, I think there was actually 2 plies of carbon. But perhaps they were playing with the same kind of microscopic carbon in the glue thing back then. It is really not possible to tell if they are just making up new ways to explain the same stuff. Or like this:

”Crystal Carbo, with a new secret - carbon powder! In this 7-ply blade we have put carbon powder between all the layers, for a total of 6 carbon powder layers. This makes this blade very powerful. The Clipper CC also has the unique Crystal surface that gives you extra zip on all your shots.”

However, I will have to confess, I have no idea if any of this is anything more then promotional nonsense. And, I do know that, at some point Stiga did refer to the coating as NCT. But perhaps they changed things. So all I can say is, if you find an NCT blade that does not have that coating, I would like to see it. [emoji4]

In any case, the Allround NCT I had was nice but was not all that stiff.

Stiga Infinity VPS V or Emerald VPS V

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