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    1. Top | #1
      Rómulus Teo is offline
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      Ittf stupiiiiiiiiiid ranking

      Did you see the ranking that came out today? Ding Ning is in rank 21 Liu Shiwen in rank 24 has gone from rank 4 to 24 ... Tell me 20 female players who are better than Ding Ning. Tell me 23 female players who are better than Liu Shiwen ... How come Japanese women are ahead of Chinese women if they are always losing? How can Hugo Calderano, Filus, Assar Omar and Aruna quadri be better than Fang Bo? And finally as that Ma Long is ranked 7 and the Niwa Koki rank 6 being that Niwa lost against Ma Long in the WC ...


      Do you agree with this ranking or am I the only one to disagree with all this?Click image for larger version. 

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    3. Top | #2
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      Simple. A ranking has nothing to do with being better or worse. It just ranks the points accumulated in ranking events during a given period. The Chinese players you mentioned have played only a few ranking events, so they go down the ranking. For instance Ding Ning only played in 6 ranking events, Kasumi Ishikawa in 15.
      Same thing happens in tennis, Serena Williams is ranked 22nd, Novak Djokovic 12th, Andy Murray 16th. All because they didn't play lately.

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    5. Top | #3
      Loopadoop is offline
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      It is based on ITTF World tour participation, so if you don't play enough, lowered ranking.

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    7. Top | #4
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      I just don't think this matters. Sorry. When the better players are active these things will change. And if they are not active, it makes sense that they don't accumulate points.

      Whether Ma Long is number 1 or not, when he plays at his actual level and wins everything, his world ranking won't matter. And if he does that consistently, he should end up as number 1.
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    9. Top | #5
      tropical is offline
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      Actually I was a bit upset with the new ranking until I've learned other sports have similar system. However, ITTF new system should be as close as tennis' as possible since this has been tested for a long time.

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    11. Top | #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      I just don't think this matters. Sorry. When the better players are active these things will change. And if they are not active, it makes sense that they don't accumulate points.

      Whether Ma Long is number 1 or not, when he plays at his actual level and wins everything, his world ranking won't matter. And if he does that consistently, he should end up as number 1.
      I think it does matter, especially if tournament directors have to seed players according to the rankings. Not great for the tournament if Ma Long knocks out FZD in the quarters or Ding Ning knocks out the top seed in the first round. I wonder if they'll allow some flexibility to avoid this happening. Wimbledon occasionally shifts seeded players up or down based on grass court performance, although I think the other tennis majors seed strictly according to the rankings.

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    13. Top | #7
      Tinykin is offline
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      More tournaments played equal better chance of higher ranking

      Quote Originally Posted by Andy44 View Post
      I think it does matter, especially if tournament directors have to seed players according to the rankings. Not great for the tournament if Ma Long knocks out FZD in the quarters or Ding Ning knocks out the top seed in the first round. I wonder if they'll allow some flexibility to avoid this happening. Wimbledon occasionally shifts seeded players up or down based on grass court performance, although I think the other tennis majors seed strictly according to the rankings.
      As Tropical said, the ITTF is bringing our sport's ranking system up to date to sort of reflect what other similar sports are doing. That is, to reward participation. I'm sure that there will be 'adjustments' over time including your suggestion.
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    15. Top | #8
      TTHopeful is offline
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      Ma Long vs Fan Zhendong in round 1 of the World championships

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    17. Top | #9
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Andy44 View Post
      I think it does matter, especially if tournament directors have to seed players according to the rankings. Not great for the tournament if Ma Long knocks out FZD in the quarters or Ding Ning knocks out the top seed in the first round. I wonder if they'll allow some flexibility to avoid this happening. Wimbledon occasionally shifts seeded players up or down based on grass court performance, although I think the other tennis majors seed strictly according to the rankings.
      This is not true. All Wimbledon does, and they publicised it later, was take the last three years of playing at Wimbledon or in grass and use it to adjust the current ranking and they have actually toyed with not doing it anymore as grass has now played more similarly to other surfaces. In any case, there is no reason to believe such a thing applies to table tennis. It is perfectly fine if Ma Long has to face FZD early as this is part of the reward and punishment for playing or not playing enough under the current ranking system. Like I have said at other times, anyone who wants to measure the pure strength of the players can do so in their bedrooms using their own ELO system.

      The incentive to not play on the tour under the old system was pretty large/high. Look at 2016 where Ding Ning and Liu Shiwen pulled out of the World Cup In the USA with no effect on their rankings. I know how good they are but I don't care about that I want to see them play.

      It's best to let this experiment play out rather than complain that because it doesn't measure strength that it is imperfect. In fact, tennis is looking at introducing more randomness by seeding fewer players in its main draws. It currently seeds 32, it wants to go back to seeding 16 and causing more upsets in early rounds.
      Last edited by NextLevel; 01-02-2018 at 04:32 PM.
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    19. Top | #10
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      give it a few months, ma long or FZd will be number one
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    21. Top | #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear View Post
      give it a few months, ma long or FZd will be number one
      Yes. "Wait and see", it's a time-tested, yet severly underrated, approach towards complex issues.

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    23. Top | #12
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      It's also unfair for some junior players who go to school. One of my friends won a junior tournament in Europe last year and as a result, he had about 1200 ranking points. Now he's back where he was 2 years ago with 900 points. Also, players from quasi-communist countries (China and North Korea) will be at a loss because their governments limit their travel.
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    25. Top | #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tinykin View Post
      As Tropical said, the ITTF is bringing our sport's ranking system up to date to sort of reflect what other similar sports are doing. That is, to reward participation. I'm sure that there will be 'adjustments' over time including your suggestion.
      ITTF surely need to relook at the high loser point accumulation ratio to the winner
      90%/80%/70% etc is way too high for loosing
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    27. Top | #14
      strangeloop is offline
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      Also, how will players from lesser privileged countries travel? Apart from unintended beneficiaries like Kreanga, they were the real beneficiaries.
      Will be great if there is an equal number of ITTF pro tours for every continent. Because ranking (and thus sponsorship) is now a function of how frequently one participates. Having said that, it is really difficult to be fair to all with 200+ member associations.

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    29. Top | #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by strangeloop View Post
      Will be great if there is an equal number of ITTF pro tours for every continent. Because ranking (and thus sponsorship) is now a function of how frequently one participates. Having said that, it is really difficult to be fair to all with 200+ member associations.
      There is no restriction, any national team (or even individual - if national team approves) can go to ITTF tour and ragister to the tournament. So it's just about the money. And yes, I do agree that when it comes to money not all national teams or individuals are equal. But that's life, you can hardly anticipate ITTF to pay the trip for players form all countries around the world. So the decision that tournaments are "open" if national team player at least shows up (on his expense) and pays the registration fee is OK to me.

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      I really don't care who's first and who's second. But if as a result of this new system more top players come to Bulgaria Open(everybody here wants to see the Chinese) this year then I'll love this new system even if Thomas Weikert becomes №1

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    32. Top | #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by Andy44 View Post
      I think it does matter, especially if tournament directors have to seed players according to the rankings. Not great for the tournament if Ma Long knocks out FZD in the quarters or Ding Ning knocks out the top seed in the first round. I wonder if they'll allow some flexibility to avoid this happening. Wimbledon occasionally shifts seeded players up or down based on grass court performance, although I think the other tennis majors seed strictly according to the rankings.
      For seeding you are only as good as your ranking. If you play a lot and gather a lof of ranking points you deserve a better seeding than someone that is the same level but plays less tournaments, I think. But there is something to say for both opinions

    33. Top | #18
      strangeloop is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by JST View Post
      There is no restriction, any national team (or even individual - if national team approves) can go to ITTF tour and ragister to the tournament. So it's just about the money. And yes, I do agree that when it comes to money not all national teams or individuals are equal. But that's life, you can hardly anticipate ITTF to pay the trip for players form all countries around the world. So the decision that tournaments are "open" if national team player at least shows up (on his expense) and pays the registration fee is OK to me.
      Of course.. but ITTF can (hopefully) evenly distribute the tournaments across the globe to give equal opportunity to participate.

    34. Top | #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by strangeloop View Post
      Of course.. but ITTF can (hopefully) evenly distribute the tournaments across the globe to give equal opportunity to participate.
      Unfortunately that's not the primary objective and I can understand that. There are only few countries which are willing and able to organize such event (see Swedish Open with almost empty hall, so few spectators that average German Bundesliga match has much better atmosphere then final in Stockholm - where do you think the event would have better price money and spectators?) and there are only some regions where is potential to growth which can be boosted by subsidized event boosted with ITTF money (that's ITTF's language, I personally don't agree that doing ITTF Tour Grand Final in country like Kazakhstan will help anyone except ITTF staff who got sponsorship from somewhere). As far as I understand ITTF isn't really rich organization, no comparison to UEFA/FIFA/ATP or any professional sport league in big country... Maybe I'm wrong but I'm definitely shaking when hearing that all should be equalized by quotas and who doesn't have money (and sometimes even interest) will just get them from bottomless pot

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    36. Top | #20
      rainneverever is offline
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      It is not about money alone.
      Take an eye at Hungarian Open this January 16-21. CNT planned to send out 13 male players to play senior singles event (CNT does not have money issue), but very likely 2 (FZD and Xue Fei) can attend because the upper limit of the event is 290 players (male + female). A player ranked 300+ (like Wang Chuqin, Yu Ziyang) has very little chance to enter the event.

      Quote Originally Posted by JST View Post
      There is no restriction, any national team (or even individual - if national team approves) can go to ITTF tour and ragister to the tournament. So it's just about the money. And yes, I do agree that when it comes to money not all national teams or individuals are equal. But that's life, you can hardly anticipate ITTF to pay the trip for players form all countries around the world. So the decision that tournaments are "open" if national team player at least shows up (on his expense) and pays the registration fee is OK to me.

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