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Dima would have gone the distance in WTTC too had it not been for the awesome Koki Niwa!!
Ittf stupiiiiiiiiiid ranking
- Thread starter Rómulus Teo
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Dima would have gone the distance in WTTC too had it not been for the awesome Koki Niwa!!
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By the way, maybe the new rating system had some positive influence for TT in Germany? Maybe there were shown more interest in the sport, a lot of publicity, better attendance of games, more people started playing?
One small mind experiment to ease the heated discussions:
how would you explain to your friend who doesn't play TT when he asks you who is No.1 in the world
-Ovtcharaov
-Ovtcharov but he is not
-MaLong is No.1, but he is also not
What do you think your friend asks when he says No.1?
My bet would go for the strongest player in the world...
One small mind experiment to ease the heated discussions:
how would you explain to your friend who doesn't play TT when he asks you who is No.1 in the world
-Ovtcharaov
-Ovtcharov but he is not
-MaLong is No.1, but he is also not
What do you think your friend asks when he says No.1?
My bet would go for the strongest player in the world...
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I am pretty sure there has not been a positive effect in Germany so far due to the new rating system (it is not even a week old). If table tennis had an increase in popularity the last months then because of the outstanding results Ovtcharov and Boll reached. Of course it is cool to have the #1 player coming from your country but I would not say that there will be any more positive effect. Table tennis is very popular in Germany alrady, it takes more than a German #1 to increase it even more and in a way that would help table tennis here (for example more often shown in TV).
If a friend of mine asked me about #1 table tennis player I would tell him it is Ovtcharov from Germany. Anything else would be a lie. If he does not ask anything else then that's it.One small mind experiment to ease the heated discussions:
how would you explain to your friend who doesn't play TT when he asks you who is No.1 in the world
-Ovtcharaov
-Ovtcharov but he is not
-MaLong is No.1, but he is also not
What do you think your friend asks when he says No.1?
My bet would go for the strongest player in the world...
I hope this discussion will stop soon. As stated 100 times before the new rating system needs time to settle down and adjust. Moreover, it is not the players' fault that the rating system now works like that, Ovtcharov bashing is plain sutpid. He had an OUTSTANDING year, no one else had a better year than him taken all together and therefore he DESERVES to be #1 for some weeks.
#1 in Tennis currently is Nadal. No one with a clue about Tennis would ever ask things like "oh, how comes Nadal is #1 and Federer only #2 while Nadal has not won any big final against Federer in 2017?" Federer beat Nadal in three big finals, does that make him the better player? Depends. What a lot of you guys have to understand that this rating system and also the new one in table tennis does NOT reflect strength above all but the AVERAGE PERFORMANCE THROUGHOUT THE LAST YEAR. That is a completely different approach. It does not matter whether you like it or not.
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Yes, that's what I meant, not be cause of the new rating system, but because of the spectacular year for Timo Ball and Dima Ovtcharov
No one (I hope I am talking not only for myself) is bashing Dima. I am actually super happy for him, I was routing for him since the beginning of time (personal reasons
). All I am saying I would also be happy if MaLong was 1 and Dima was 2 or 3, cause that's how I think the ratings should work. To be the 2 or 3 best in the world is by itself unbelievable achievement, and when you take into account that TT is dominated by Chinese players its double time tremendous. Also it's good for TT in general.Peace
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Yes, that's what I meant, not be cause of the new rating system, but because of the spectacular year for Timo Ball and Dima Ovtcharov
No one (I hope I am talking not only for myself) is bashing Dima. I am actually super happy for him, I was routing for him since the beginning of time (personal reasons
Peace
If Ma Long and Fan Zhendong had not protested at China Open and they didn't have to deal with National Games etc., this could very well have happened. But because of that and a few other things, we have the current situation. And by the rules, Dima is #1. And if you look at the top 10, it is full of good players who played well last year. If Ma Long has a good year, he will go back to #1 too.
What some people who are complaining will not tell you is that they are upset that Ma Long's streak at #1 Is over and this is driving more of their criticisms than anything else.
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The problem is that this ranking happens to be used for seeding in big tournaments so you should like the new system as long as you don't mind the two best players in the world facing off in the round of 16 :/
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In 2017 World Cup, both ML and Dima faced Timo. Timo beat ML and Dima beat Timo. Timo has beaten ML 4 times out of 17 encounters and Dima has never beaten ML out of 14 encounters. The match result between A/B and A/C has nothing to do with the result of A/C, really.
People who have in-depth analyses on the new ranking system complain because the ratio between loser/winner too high in the new system, much higher than tennis. Therefore players who have never reached SF and F can get higher ranking than players who have won all but played fewer tournaments. It also does not have the incentives for lower ranked players boosting ranking by causing upsets. As a result, DN will play qualification in the future and a lot of young promising players will not be able to play senior events.
ML will not be #1 in Jan 2018 under old ranking system, either! The old ranking points consist of rating points (never expire) and bonus points (expire in 12 months, the ratio being winner 9/runner up 8/3rd 7/SF 6/QF 5/R16 4/R32 3/R64 2/R128 1). ML has more rating points than FZD and Dima but he barely gained rating points beating other players and lost a lot when getting beaten. For example, in 2017 World Cup, ML gained 6 rating points in total by beating Omar Assar, Koki Niwa and Simon Gauzy and lost 32 rating points losing to Timo (He got 42 bonus points for being 3rd place). ML did not play as many tournaments as FZD and Dima did in 2017, that's why under old ranking system, in Jan 2018, ML would be #2 and FZD #1 and Dima #3. The old ranking system has already taken care of the attendance issue and the bonus points ratio is more reasonable than the new system (winner/QF=9/5 under old system and 10/7 under new system). It is not easy to maintain rating points for higher ranked players under old system and it is easy for the lower ranked player to gain points. Again in 2017 World Cup, Timo gained 64 rating points beating ML; he gained 48 bonus points for being runner-up. The bonus points for World Cup winner is 56, beating ML gave Timo more points than winning a World Cup, can you image that in the new system?
People who have in-depth analyses on the new ranking system complain because the ratio between loser/winner too high in the new system, much higher than tennis. Therefore players who have never reached SF and F can get higher ranking than players who have won all but played fewer tournaments. It also does not have the incentives for lower ranked players boosting ranking by causing upsets. As a result, DN will play qualification in the future and a lot of young promising players will not be able to play senior events.
ML will not be #1 in Jan 2018 under old ranking system, either! The old ranking points consist of rating points (never expire) and bonus points (expire in 12 months, the ratio being winner 9/runner up 8/3rd 7/SF 6/QF 5/R16 4/R32 3/R64 2/R128 1). ML has more rating points than FZD and Dima but he barely gained rating points beating other players and lost a lot when getting beaten. For example, in 2017 World Cup, ML gained 6 rating points in total by beating Omar Assar, Koki Niwa and Simon Gauzy and lost 32 rating points losing to Timo (He got 42 bonus points for being 3rd place). ML did not play as many tournaments as FZD and Dima did in 2017, that's why under old ranking system, in Jan 2018, ML would be #2 and FZD #1 and Dima #3. The old ranking system has already taken care of the attendance issue and the bonus points ratio is more reasonable than the new system (winner/QF=9/5 under old system and 10/7 under new system). It is not easy to maintain rating points for higher ranked players under old system and it is easy for the lower ranked player to gain points. Again in 2017 World Cup, Timo gained 64 rating points beating ML; he gained 48 bonus points for being runner-up. The bonus points for World Cup winner is 56, beating ML gave Timo more points than winning a World Cup, can you image that in the new system?
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It happens in just about every sport. It even happens in regular tournaments when the round robin stage has an upset.
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Yeah and he is unlikely to be #1 for a while now so you can be patient. Watch some old WTTC videos of the final.
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they will not tell us so you tell us instead? Lol are you some kind of a mind reader? Well here goes then, just for the sake of equality of the opposing sides: what a lot of people won't tell you is that they rejoice in finally having a foreigner as top 1 even though it was not due to performance but due to the change to the ranking system, this is driving their approval more than anything else. Good luck disproving that.
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I think this is likely true as well though I am not sure why you consider "foreigner" an appropriate word. But performance would have had Dima at least top 3. His 2017 performance was stellar. It rivals that of Xu Xin in some of his good years.
The other thing to realize is that the changes were announced well in advance. People had time to adjust. Don't think Timo suddenly playing more events was some kind of miracle.
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that's what they call anyone who's not Korean in Korean dominated e-sports. I used it automatically sinse I'm very used to that terminology. A better word would be Westerner I guess.
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sure, the correct decision, altough not terribly graceful. Not Dima's fault the new system allows that.
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Ad hominem is a part of life when understanding why people do what they do and when making value judgements about situations where values are at stake not just numbers. If I was saying people are wrong because they want Ma Long to be #1, that is one thing. But saying that people are motivated to hate the new system because they want Ma Long to be #1 Is a statement that can be evaluated on its merits. As I remind people, had Ma Long played more he would easily be #1.
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so now its not about ranking system but it is about who has better head to head? can you decide please cause you are not answering my question (as always)? You still seem not to understand what ITTF is trying to do here, yes the point allocation is PROBABLY not fair, but its too early to judge and u already made conclusions with the system not being displayed for a reasonable period of time.
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lol, what else can he say? I told him ML would not be #1 under old ranking system and he still mind-reads that I "complain" about the new ranking system because ML #1 streak is over. I also analyzed DN's ranking from hidden in Nov 2017 (#2 if not hidden) to #3 in Dec 2017 when losing to Chen Xingtong in Swedish Open. Simply put, to get more ranking points under old system one has to attend and NOT to lose to lower ranked players. Under new system, one can easily withdraw a tournament like Dima did for Hungrarian Open and someone can walk over easily because getting to next round does not give you much more points and there is no penalty for W.O.
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Entirely reasonable and graceful.
There are many events in the year, all you are required to play is 8 to have a full ranking. Only a few Japanese players play every event. At least he played the World Tour Finals, where was Ma Long?
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I did my best in trying to be objective while reading your discussion and I honestly see no bias in rainneverever's arguments. I think they bring solid points.
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