It's Official | Dimitrij Ovtcharov is the New World Number 1!

An interesting consequence of the new ranking system is how some medium-level players have improved a looooot their ranking position because of having good regional results. Some of them have almost 300 positions less than in December 2017!!

Check the list of the most improved players that have reached the top 200:

Just in case you are curious, the stats come from our WR page.

zoomtt said:

An interesting consequence of the new ranking system is how some medium-level players have improved a looooot their ranking position because of having good regional results. Some of them have almost 300 positions less than in December 2017!!

Check the list of the most improved players that have reached the top 200:

View attachment 15106
View attachment 15107
Just in case you are curious, the stats come from our WR page.

Click to expand...

Yes, I Was wondering when this would come up.


The ITTF tour has to undergo major changes to support this new ranking system and the ranking system may need to be tweaked with time as well.

zoomtt said:

An interesting consequence of the new ranking system is how some medium-level players have improved a looooot their ranking position because of having good regional results. Some of them have almost 300 positions less than in December 2017!!

Check the list of the most improved players that have reached the top 200:

View attachment 15106
View attachment 15107
Just in case you are curious, the stats come from our WR page.

Click to expand...

Yep
few of my friends all have record breaking world rankings
funny thing is, a player inside top 20 never ever beaten a player inside the top 20 in the world
another one who made it to top 100 has never beaten a top 100 player before

I guess now, a top 20, top 100 doesn't mean much about players skills

Hi ZoomTT, did you notice some biiiiig drop of WR? Could you do a similar gragh?

I've used Sweden's Truls Moregard as an example in previous discussion. He was #166 in Dec 2017 and #944 in Jan 2018. Almost 780 position lower. Another case is Niu Guankai, #99 in Dec 2017 and #1048 in Jan 2018. Almost 950 position lower. I wonder who has actually dropped more than them.

zoomtt said:

An interesting consequence of the new ranking system is how some medium-level players have improved a looooot their ranking position because of having good regional results. Some of them have almost 300 positions less than in December 2017!!

Check the list of the most improved players that have reached the top 200:

Just in case you are curious, the stats come from our WR page.

Click to expand...

UpSideDownCarl said:

Yep. The fact that Timo Boll managed to beat Ma Long and Lin Gaoyan in the World Cup--regardless of whether ML was injured or not playing well--the fact that the finals of the World Cup was Dima vs Timo, was interesting, and an enjoyable change of pace.

The circumstances that led to that happening, the turmoil for the CNT, is not as enjoyable. It would have meant much more if everyone was in top form when that happened. But still, I cannot think of a tournament where there were two CNT players and neither of them got to the finals, in a very long time.

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indeed the sacking of LGL had some drawbacks but fzd vs ovtcharov on german open was brutal nonetheless and I dont think fzd would have won for sure if he had LGL on his side. dima was phenomenal and even in the grand finals that 4-0 on fzd's favor is extremely misleading. I seriously believe that the world has many chances against LGY and FZD right now as the first one still chokes and the 2nd one is not a versatile player and still monotonous

I was very excited to see a feroscious dima because I thought he would never make it on the big stage against the chinese but now it seemed like everything was were it needed to be. creativity,confidence and never backing down

A new vid

https://www.ittf.com/2018/01/22/battle-top-spot-fan-zhendong-closes-gap-dimitrij-ovtcharov/
It is funny to see this ITTF news. ITTF tries to calculate
the ranking points of Dima and FZD and expect Dima to remain WR #1 in Mar (he will be #1 in Feb). What makes me laugh is that ITTF made a wrong calculation. In March, Dima will have 12945+Euro Top 16 Cup(1800 winner/1620 runnerup) + 300*each win at Team World Cup or 720 whichever is higher. FZD will have 14295 +300*each win at Team World Cup or 1350 whichever is higher (say FZD has 4 wins, then 14295+1350=15645; if he has 5 wins, then 14295+1500=15795). While ITTF says FZD has 14295 in March and Dima only needs 3 wins in Team World Cup and a victory in Euro Cup to get 15648 (the sum is actually 15645) to keep WR #1.

Isn't the new WR system fool proof? Sum up 8 best results and how can ITTF itself make such stupid mistake?

ITTF is completely messed up. After reading Tony's post in another thread about breaking even financially in world tour events, I can only say this whole ranking thing is a big joke unless prize money is increased. Else you are making majority of players poorer.

To analyze the prize money issue, firstly we need to find out how much the ittf makes annually and what percentage of it actually goes to players prize money.

Have you read the ranking point article in the ITTF news?

https://www.ittf.com/2018/01/22/battle-top-spot-fan-zhendong-closes-gap-dimitrij-ovtcharov/

It sure is stupid and arbitrary.

drunix80 said:

[...] I can only say this whole ranking thing is a big joke unless prize money is increased. Else you are making majority of players poorer.
[...]

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I'm watching the Australian Open (actually listening to the radio) and guess what is the prize for the looser of the round of 128 (64 pairs)? Yes ... about 60k AUD (about 45k USD) ... I think more than the prize money of the World Cup winner.

I know, one have to consider the scale of both tournaments, tv coverage etc ... but just the pure thought of the gap between the two. How those tt players can make a living ...

J.

jawien said:

I'm watching the Australian Open (actually listening to the radio) and guess what is the prize for the looser of the round of 128 (64 pairs)? Yes ... about 60k AUD (about 45k USD) ... I think more than the prize money of the World Cup winner.

I know, one have to consider the scale of both tournaments, tv coverage etc ... but just the pure thought of the gap between the two. How those tt players can make a living ...

J.

Click to expand...

Throughout amateur table tennis, we all know if a local table tennis tournament will have good prize money, it will draw better players who is willing to travel to the tournament

Money attracts top players.
Some how ITTF and some forum members thinks, Top players attract sponsors.....

I guess we all hope in business you first have top players then you have money
But i'm afraid in real life, money (capital) comes first, then come your top players.

Its like saying, I want to hire top employees for free and once we have money (business coming in), I will pay the employees
Sorry, real life is pay first, else they go else where to seek employment

Again, the ones fighting for number 1 slot are financially secured from table tennis - so I'm not worried about them
the others - sad.....

Wierd to see Koki Niwa above Ma Long in the ranking. Even Dima never won against ML..

I understand the logic behind that system, the ranking must be more flexible and forces player to attend more events etc.
But to me it doesn't reflect who is actually the best.

DattJesicht said:

Here it is, Dima's statement from rains post:
[...]

Of course, many people think that Ma Long deserves this position [#1 WR] a lot more than I do, because he is better. No doubt, Ma Long is the best player in the World and I am in no position to compare myself to him.
[...]

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Thanks for translating it!
Dima is such an humble guy.This is the right attitude for a true champion.
I think he deserves to be WR 1 for a bit, but I'm afraid soon he will loose his position

brodolio said:

Thanks for translating it!
Dima is such an humble guy.This is the right attitude for a true champion.
I think he deserves to be WR 1 for a bit, but I'm afraid soon he will loose his position

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I don't think so
he is at a level where he is able to beat Ma Long or FZD
And even if he looses in the final against one of them, he still has 90% of the point - which is really high
So based on this, as long As Dima makes the finals, and wins or comes number 2, it will take a long time for ML to catch up
FZD is obviously quicker to catch up.

rainneverever said:

https://www.ittf.com/2018/01/22/battle-top-spot-fan-zhendong-closes-gap-dimitrij-ovtcharov/
It is funny to see this ITTF news. ITTF tries to calculate
the ranking points of Dima and FZD and expect Dima to remain WR #1 in Mar (he will be #1 in Feb). What makes me laugh is that ITTF made a wrong calculation. In March, Dima will have 12945+Euro Top 16 Cup(1800 winner/1620 runnerup) + 300*each win at Team World Cup or 720 whichever is higher. FZD will have 14295 +300*each win at Team World Cup or 1350 whichever is higher (say FZD has 4 wins, then 14295+1350=15645; if he has 5 wins, then 14295+1500=15795). While ITTF says FZD has 14295 in March and Dima only needs 3 wins in Team World Cup and a victory in Euro Cup to get 15648 (the sum is actually 15645) to keep WR #1.

Isn't the new WR system fool proof? Sum up 8 best results and how can ITTF itself make such stupid mistake?

Click to expand...

That piece was written by Simon Daish. I guess he didn't proofread it. Anyway, the 8 in 15648 could be a typo from typing on the numpad, where the key for number 8 sits just above that for 5.

In case anyone wants to follow or bash him on his twitter, or on SD Sport site, for which he is the founder and editor.

Tony's Table Tennis said:

[...]
But i'm afraid in real life, money (capital) comes first, then come your top players.
[...]

Again, the ones fighting for number 1 slot are financially secured from table tennis - so I'm not worried about them
the others - sad.....

Click to expand...

Yeah but if we take the business approach, then say we invest lots of money in the tournament, the best players will come and what is the return of investment? TT does not have as much media attention to attract bigger money/investors I'm afraid ... AO is so big and popular. I - a tt aficionado - have time to watch the AO, but would it be true otherwise ...?

TT is very technical and we love playing it, but it is not understandable to the broader audience ... so there is not much of a public interest. It's like a closed circle - don't you think?

jawien said:

Yeah but if we take the business approach, then say we invest lots of money in the tournament, the best players will come and what is the return of investment? TT does not have as much media attention to attract bigger money/investors I'm afraid ... AO is so big and popular. I - a tt aficionado - have time to watch the AO, but would it be true otherwise ...?

TT is very technical and we love playing it, but it is not understandable to the broader audience ... so there is not much of a public interest. It's like a closed circle - don't you think?

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If we don't take the business approach, then we take the charity approach??

You need to know if 5 countries can do it, then why can't the other 15?

As in all sports, you only need 20 countries to really make it work.

Soccer, Basketball there is more than 20 countries
Baseball - maybe less than 20 countries
Tennis - its more individuals but about 20 countries

I guess for someone to get money and have ROI - this needs a very good business man

Same business man would do good in any corporate

Tony's Table Tennis said:

If we don't take the business approach, then we take the charity approach??

You need to know if 5 countries can do it, then why can't the other 15?[...]
As in all sports, you only need 20 countries to really make it work.

I guess for someone to get money and have ROI - this needs a very good business man
Same business man would do good in any corporate

Click to expand...

Yeah, question was somewhat rhetorical, of course professional sport must "make money".
If I understand you correctly there would be like 5 countries that do well on the business level. I guess you mean China, Japan, Germany, Korea and ... ?
So the only problem with other countries is that they don't implement the business model well?


I like the current tt and I love playing it, but I really think, it is not understandable to the "regular" people. TT falls a little into the category of say fencing I believe. It looks nice, but sometimes the light goes on and you have no idea why. It is discouraging .. unless you have some familiarity or you practice the sport yourself.

The majority of TT viewerships of major events like Rio OG and 2017 WTTC come from China. Do all those Chinese viewers play TT regularly so that they understand TT? NO. They watch because CNT players have great results. It is also true when China women's volleyball won gold at Rio OG beating defending champion Brazil and the teams they lost in group stage like Netherlands and Serbia. All Chinese got excited and volleyball was all over the place, mainstream media, social media, offices and schools. Do people play volleyball? No. Do they know the players? No. They may only know the head coach Lang Ping. Do they watch or even know volleyball leagues in China? No. And it does not matter. The viewers don't need to understand the rules, the techniques and tactics; they see the players run, jump, shout, celebrate; they see the ball going back and forth and back; they see the scores and winners; they listen to the commentators to get to learn the basic rules and players' name and records. That's enough.
China women's volleyball team used to be heroes to Chinese in 1980s, like TT team. The situation of volleyball in China before Rio is no better than TT in terms of salary of players (for example, the captain of China women's volleyball earned an annual salary of 30000USD), coverage and sponsorships of leagues (200000USD to run a team for the whole season), popularity of star players. Chinese volleyball players are good but not the best in the world; they don't have the best financial support from government and sponsors. Coach Lang Ping is really good but she still need to inspire players to play their best. They fight, they win and they make fame. Many Chinese still don't watch volleyball leagues but watch major tournament and are happy to see volleyball players and coach in commercials.
My point is that it is not only the technical details of a sport that attracts viewers. The spirits of sportsmanship, fighting for glory, national pride, or just how fast the players respond and move...... Most watch just for fun.

jawien said:

Yeah, question was somewhat rhetorical, of course professional sport must "make money".
If I understand you correctly there would be like 5 countries that do well on the business level. I guess you mean China, Japan, Germany, Korea and ... ?
So the only problem with other countries is that they don't implement the business model well?


I like the current tt and I love playing it, but I really think, it is not understandable to the "regular" people. TT falls a little into the category of say fencing I believe. It looks nice, but sometimes the light goes on and you have no idea why. It is discouraging .. unless you have some familiarity or you practice the sport yourself.

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I think Rain just helped me save a lot of time to answer how to make TT welcome by the masses
Same with me - I watch international football/soccer some times (basically fifa world cup). I know some players, I know some rules, but I don't follow it as a true heart fan.
Same with Cricket and Rugby in South Africa
Some times I will follow tennis
Some times I will watch NBA, volleyball, badminton
Yes, i'm a sports person, my understanding of sport is better than the average, but I still don't know the details like a true fan.

Basically if one person has basic knowledge, then one can become a spectator.

now back to the 5 countries - it is more:
1) China - club
2) Taiwan - club
3) Japan - Club (and now a big portion olympic budget)
4) Korea - Club/national (here I am not too clued up)
5) Germany - club
6) France - club
7) Russia - club
8) India - not much knowledge but with the club in 2017 i'm impressed
9) Singapore - more T2, but i'm sure the national team also gets funding some how

I named 3 European countries that I know have good club TT structure which I know the players get paid.
I'm sure they are other countries that can be added on

Now where did these 9 countries get they money from (other than government), now why can't another 11 to 15 countries do the same?

I think 20 is a magic number - the moment you get 10% of the countries in the world to have it become a proper career option.
then with help of media,
Then another 10% of countries to become half a career
Then TT would be where it should be.

TT is over 100 years old, and played in most countries for over 50 years already.
heck most people has once in they life played TT (in basement, garage etc) when as a kid or at a party.
I doubt fencing is even 1% of that to TT

now back to understanding TT
this is where schools are so important - any knowledge of sports come from schools
there is where media is important - with ITTF locking up ITTV to your wider audience and national broadcasting not airing it, is it helping your average joe?

I think the focus is to first get more countries become proper TT Career orientated, and in my view, these countries must be on the list:
1) USA (all sports that is big in USA is popular in the world)
2) Brazil - I believe the club structure is strong there with lots of corporate branding on club, so maybe this is there already
3) Australia - they have a strong club coverage and membership, but I think if they can make it a players career down under, then it will increase the image further

Now, why I say this is the best
with each of the 20 countries having 50-100 players that is full time TT
that is up to 2000 players
then you have your part time TT - maybe 20000 players or more
with that, you have more job openings for coaches (school, club, personal etc) - aim for 200 coaches per country as a start - 200 schools?
with that, you will have more job openings for marketing, manager, agents, media etc

This is a business approach with money to make money and with any sport - get fans/followers/spectator to build brand power and that would give ROI

Making world tours 100 times the prize money value to me is not the criteria and making pros play too many world tours is not the criteria too (this is only ITTF method of making it big, but whats the point of ITTF being big when 99% of the players end up homeless?
They should help more countries having career structures and we need the top players to help there too