Am I a Troll or am I fighting my craving long pips style

I haven't gone through this , though I am sure at some point I will probably end up putting pips to slow the game down .... the messing up only works till a certain level ... however in your case, just another viewpoint, it does not have to be one or the other ... you can keep doing both and having fun doing both and then one will end up choosing you or you can keep up doing the same ... I know an international referee in my area ( Kenny Tien ) who plays with regular, anti, short , long and keeps twiddingly when he has different types on his paddle ... playing from back of the table gives you more time to twiddle ... if your natural style is that ... you can easily have fun playing different combinations ...

As someone who has spent too much time switching in the past, (penholder who used TPB so put long pips on the unused side for twiddling) you will find at first and vs lower rated players, it gives them fits. And you'll get a good chuckle every now & then. But then after a while they adjust and start to get use to them. Furthermore, vs good players, you'll just feel like you're playing with one hand behind your back and if your personality is like mine, (attacker by nature) you won't like them being the hammer and you the nail.

So for some time now I've been playing duel inverted trying to ever retrain by brain (which is going well so far) into using RPB more often than the TPB.

I suggest you either continue to work with your BH or look at it fundamentally to see if there's something you're doing wrong. Keep at it and maybe in a few months, you'll really like what you're seeing progress wise.

I think part of it just depends on your personality type. If you're a patient player and willing to stand off the table and chop, chop, chop and can wait them out or wait for your FH shot, sure go for it. But if you don't particularly feel you have the mentality for that style of play, I'd stay away.

I am not sure why you are calling that a troll. I guess it doesn't matter.

In the end, only you can choose and I am not sure you have to choose. As Monster said, you can simply keep switching.

It does sound to me like part of you likes the idea of using long pips. Why don't you give it a serious shot for a few weeks and see how you like playing that way. You will get to see if it continues to be satisfying after a few weeks. During that time, you certainly can go back and forth, or you can just play pips. And when you play pips, twiddling means you can play the pips or smooth side from either wing when you want.

A few weeks of playing with pips and a serious intention to play with them would allow you to see if it is what makes you happy from playing. Or if you want to go back to smooth on both sides. Even if you go back, you still have the pips racket to mess around with any time you want.

But I would say, if you have that feeling, it is worth exploring it more fully. Only you can answer how you feel. And you may not be able to answer till you have given pips a fair shot.

suds79 said:

As someone who has spent too much time switching in the past, (penholder who used TPB so put long pips on the unused side for twiddling) you will find at first and vs lower rated players, it gives them fits. And you'll get a good chuckle every now & then. But then after a while they adjust and start to get use to them. Furthermore, vs good players, you'll just feel like you're playing with one hand behind your back and if your personality is like mine, (attacker by nature) you won't like them being the hammer and you the nail.

So for some time now I've been playing duel inverted trying to ever retrain by brain (which is going well so far) into using RPB more often than the TPB.

I suggest you either continue to work with your BH or look at it fundamentally to see if there's something you're doing wrong. Keep at it and maybe in a few months, you'll really like what you're seeing progress wise.

I think part of it just depends on your personality type. If you're a patient player and willing to stand off the table and chop, chop, chop and can wait them out or wait for your FH shot, sure go for it. But if you don't particularly feel you have the mentality for that style of play, I'd stay away.

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Sounds contradictory. But I agree with this also. It is good advice. If the issue is your BH, work on your BH.

But, nothing helps you see things like this more clearly than giving the thing you are attracted to a try. Is it an easy way out? or is it something that really works for you. Without giving it a good try, you won't really know for yourself.

By the way, here are two definition of an internet troll that I found from a simple search:

1) "Someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.”

2) “Being a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.”

I think you are really asking if there is a reason why you like the idea of using pips to mess someone else up and disrupt their normal way of playing. But, that isn't not trolling. That is just game strategy. You don't need to like it. But players at the highest levels are doing that all the time even when they play with smooth on both sides.

I definitely understand the appeal. I’m still having a lot of fun developing my two-wing topspin game, but when I get to a stage where I don’t think I can improve my ‘A’ game anymore, I may be tempted to change styles and learn to master long pimples. For me, there is an appeal of going back from the table and returning ball after ball after ball until your opponent goes bright red with exhaustion. I get to play around with this style during some of my coaching sessions (where the person I’m coaching wants to improve playing against defensive players). I can do it pretty well (up to a certain level), and it is great fun.

OP dude,

Play using what you like... myself I have a bat with OX l.p. I use once a month to first hand know so I can better cope with different l.p. players.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Well, I guess there are all kinds of trolls. But in trolling, the good kind are the guys who ask seemingly innocent questions to get people newer to the forum to get involved and answer questions. And the kind you would worry about are the kind who are saying things that are inflammatory to get people angry and to draw attention to themselves. And being a prankster, I would think of that as something different. And if you are using pips in that way, nothing really wrong with that.

But, I guess, where you are, they could use the term differently. Words are malleable.

But in the standard definition of an internet troll, the person is actually someone who demonstrates what is called the "Dark Tetrad":

1) Narcissism--persistent grandiosity, excessive need for admiration, and a disdain and lack of empathy for others.
2) Machiavelianism--the use of cunning and duplicity to manipulate people.
3) Psychopothy--persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold disinhibited egotistical traits
4) Sadism--the tendency to derive pleasure, especially sexual gratification, from inflicting pain, suffering, or humiliation on others.

My guess is that, this is not you. [emoji4]

Here is one link to an article on Internet Trolls and what they are:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...rolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists

Carl,

He means trolling the other table tennis player (his opponent) by using long pips to make them miss.

NDragon,

I really depends on whether you prefer to make people miss and be consistent or whether you prefer to hit the ball past people. I know many people who love to hit the ball past people and get messed up early in their career by someone using long pips, and then they switch to pips. Over time, they realize that they are stuck with the pips, but that their growth trajectory has changed. Instead of realizing that their struggle with the pips was going to be short lived and they should practice hitting and spinning the ball more efficiently against different kinds of incoming balls, they have gone to this material that makes it harder to do what they really enjoy doing as they aren't really into waiting out the opponent.

Long pips fit the mentality of certain kind of players, but there are even defenders who like to play with inverted on both sides of their racket - they tend to use slower inverted rubbers like Mark V or Friendship/729 FX and lob, block and slow loop more and chop less - they are basically retrievers. One I know in my club doesn't like the fact that he cannot lob with pips as he would like to and prefers to chop with inverted than to lob with pips. He got to about USATT 2000 in his prime and has tortured many loopers so he is no pushover.

Even the top attackers sometimes have defensive strokes of various kinds in their game (Ma Long, Koki Niwa, Xu Xin) and then at an extreme end, we have people like Stephen Ouiache who follows his coach Patrick Chila in being a lefty who likes to play any stroke he can come up with at any time and still loop and attack.

But the biggest mistake you can make is to think that pips are for you if your mindset isn't fundamentally designed to absorb the pressure at whatever level you aspire to play at. Because you will not be able to hit the ball consistently on your terms with pips as well as you could with inverted at any level you play at (when the ball drops below the net or you take the ball late, you can loop with inverted - when the ball drops below the net or you take the ball late, your pips just have to hope for the best).

So unless you have put serious technical work into your forehand and backhand side, don't make a premature decision to use pips unless they fit your mindset or your approach to the game for whatever level you want to play at. If you don't like to block and defend and pick hit, think carefully before committing to pips well before you have developed advanced inverted technique.

NextLevel said:

Carl,

He means trolling the other table tennis player (his opponent) by using long pips to make them miss.

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I guess I have never heard the term used that way.

Ndragon said:

Ok so basically since I came back to TT around 4 or 5 months ago I have improved very quick specifically the last 2 months. I have naturally gone back to my old style of TT of mid distance FH loop and BH drives, punches and loops (weak loops though).
Although I am happy with my progression and I have in some cases gotten better than before and in others still not there yet I am sometimes finding myself .... bored? or not excited with my BH.

Every time I see or watch someone using long pips whether it be at the table or a little further back I can't help but feel a buzz and want to stop what I'm doing and watch or do it myself. I did recently get myself a sheet of Dawei C888d OX and put it on my stiga ALL and while I really had a lot of fun playing it for a couple of sessions I did go back to my usual setup as I originally saw it as a FUN bat.

Am I a troll and I just like to see people messing with others using long pips and doing it myself or do I secretly want to play this style full time, I actually cannot answer the question if I ask myself LOL.

Does anyone else get this? or happened in the past to someone?
I want to improve quickly as I plan to join the local league in September so I am just so unsure if I should genuinely make the transition or if I am just a troll and want to have a little fun now and then.

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NextLevel said:

NDragon,

I really depends on whether you prefer to make people miss and be consistent or whether you prefer to hit the ball past people. I know many people who love to hit the ball past people and get messed up early in their career by someone using long pips, and then they switch to pips. Over time, they realize that they are stuck with the pips, but that their growth trajectory has changed. Instead of realizing that their struggle with the pips was going to be short lived and they should practice hitting and spinning the ball more efficiently against different kinds of incoming balls, they have gone to this material that makes it harder to do what they really enjoy doing as they aren't really into waiting out the opponent.

Long pips fit the mentality of certain kind of players, but there are even defenders who like to play with inverted on both sides of their racket - they tend to use slower inverted rubbers like Mark V or Friendship/729 FX and lob, block and slow loop more and chop less - they are basically retrievers. One I know in my club doesn't like the fact that he cannot lob with pips as he would like to and prefers to chop with inverted than to lob with pips. He got to about USATT 2000 in his prime and has tortured many loopers so he is no pushover.

Even the top attackers sometimes have defensive strokes of various kinds in their game (Ma Long, Koki Niwa, Xu Xin) and then at an extreme end, we have people like Stephen Ouiache who follows his coach Patrick Chila in being a lefty who likes to play any stroke he can come up with at any time and still loop and attack.

But the biggest mistake you can make is to think that pips are for you if your mindset isn't fundamentally designed to absorb the pressure at whatever level you aspire to play at. Because you will not be able to hit the ball consistently on your terms with pips as well as you could with inverted at any level you play at (when the ball drops below the net or you take the ball late, you can loop with inverted - when the ball drops below the net or you take the ball late, your pips just have to hope for the best).

So unless you have put serious technical work into your forehand and backhand side, don't make a premature decision to use pips unless they fit your mindset or your approach to the game for whatever level you want to play at. If you don't like to block and defend and pick hit, think carefully before committing to pips well before you have developed advanced inverted technique.

Click to expand...

Excellent post.

As a backhand freak, no If you get bored of BH play, then why you go for long pips? Aren't they even more boring? But maybe you are just a psychopath that loves driving others crazy

What level do you play at?

I'm going to make some assumptions based on your post - Everyone can ignore them if wrong

You've said you are looking to join a local league in September..... That would indicate the standard you play at currently isn't *that* high?

In a nutshell...... People who can successfully use long pips in the bottom divisions of local league, are always those players who people hate playing against - They have no decent attacking game to win, and it becomes very one sided, very quickly.

Long pips can work all the way through the leagues - But tend to get exposed by decent attacking players in the higher divisions.

If you simply want to have fun, and dominate some lower league matches - Go for long pips.

Hell - If you actually want to become a decent long pips player, go for it.

If you simply want to become as good as you can be...... Stick with conventional rubbers and take the sport seriously.

The only people I know who could get bored by TT are those who are too good for the local league competition - But by this point, they have put in years of practice to get themselves to that level.

I can't image getting bored of TT until I start winning 100% in the top division year after year..... I think my boredom is safe.

NextLevel said:

Carl,
there are even defenders who like to play with inverted on both sides of their racket - they tend to use slower inverted rubbers like Mark V or Friendship/729 FX and lob, block and slow loop more and chop less - they are basically retrievers. One I know in my club doesn't like the fact that he cannot lob with pips as he would like to and prefers to chop with inverted than to lob with pips. He got to about USATT 2000 in his prime and has tortured many loopers so he is no pushover.

Even the top attackers sometimes have defensive strokes of various kinds in their game (Ma Long, Koki Niwa, Xu Xin) and then at an extreme end, we have people like Stephen Ouiache who follows his coach Patrick Chila in being a lefty who likes to play any stroke he can come up with at any time and still loop and attack.

Click to expand...

Yep.

To the OP, I particularly like to watch Satoshi Aida who is chopper with duel inverted. Don't sleep on that BH because he will loop sometimes.

There are several videos of him out there. Here's just one.

While he might be on the extreme given there are so few players of this style, I like to look to him as an example that there are times it's smart to play safe and you can infact, yes, chop with inverted.

In my small amount experience of chopping in inverted in instances, I found you can chop with a ton of backspin. Or even side-spin if you go from one side to another vs down. The trick of course with chopping with inverted is just keeping it low.