Playing a local league defensive player using negative tactics

I don't like such play too.
Kick them aside by the corners, put a lot of side spin, change distance and even chop them too.
The attack should come instinctively.

I had exactly the same problem the first few games I played in the league. You will certainly not win a pushing battle with these old foxes, at least not until you are one yourself. The answer is to get better, which is obvious, but you can get better in different ways. You want to break their rhythm. Try to hit their middle. Make them uncomfortable with where the ball will be going and how fast when you send it back. Work on your topspin loop against pushing, as well as placement. They often don't like to move too much, so make them: bring them over the table then force them back. Often they will have a preference for one side or the other, so force a BH player onto his FH and vice versa. You may have to use a few pushes, especially if they push short, but try to develop consistent flips, which can be performed on both hands. Pure power is probably not the answer; these guys are often blocking masters too.

If they are using pips or anti-spin (including old inverted rubber that has become slick), there are many resources on the net about playing that. Search for tactics against Long Pips or anti.

But also remember that these guys may just be better than you at winning in competition, so don't under-estimate their ability. They've earned it through years of playing.

I had the same problem in my first two seasons and I know exactly the type of player you mean. I found that I still needed to attack and not get sucked into their game style otherwise I was in trouble. I ended up being tentative and playing a different game than I'd been coached or had practiced. That made absolutely no sense. I don't have that problem now and I can comfortably beat those type of players. I don't tend to go for lots of high risk shots but instead go for a controlled attacking game as I know I don't have to worry about them getting in first. You may lose several games playing this way at first, but it pays off in the end. This approach got me out of the lower leagues into the higher divisions where the games are much more attack orientated, exciting and instinctive! Hope this helps.

You simply need to learn what they are going to return to you and be ready. You do that by knowing what you put on the ball and how they are likely to impact it. The easiest way to get attackable presentable chances right away to develop an awesome service game. When they cannot get your serve, you get free points and when they manage to get it back over, it is not a quality ball and you are ready to hit.

Know when the push you are getting is no spin or light spin and be ready to drive it. You might need to learn the impact of the opponent and possible move a little more forward than your instincts tell you, but once you se what is happening, and you get long balls, they will have no chance if you are ready and have a strong loop or loop drive that is consistent.

If your pushing too much, put long pips OX on your bh. Read why, the introduction info at North Little Rock Table Tennis Group timeline page on Facebook. Then beat them at their own game.

This is very common.

They key thing is what you say here:

Silver smasher said:

On a normal club evening I enjoy fast rallies and counter attacking but in a match I can get dragged into a push-push game.

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In training most people do drills and practice of topspin against block. This is definitely good and will help you as you progress to a higher standard.

But you also need to spend a lot of time practicing topspin vs backspin. So the four shots you need to feel confident playing are:

- FH topspin vs backspin (push and chop)
- BH topspin vs backspin (push and chop)
- FH flick
- BH flick

When you have confidence playing these shots, then beating these lower league defensive players becomes much easier.

It’s then just a question of developing an attacking mindset. You approach these matches with the mindest of opening up with topspin as soon as you can and then you turn the rallies into topspin rallies (your strength – what you have been practising in training).

Here’s a couple of articles I have written which may help you…

Tactics for beating a pusher: http://www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/tactics-for-beating-a-pusher/

How to attack more during matches: http://www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/how-to-attack-more-during-matches/

the big thing that messes a lot of people up against defensive players is the spin they put on the ball coming back at them. massive topspin plus bit of sidespin loop comes back to you as massive backspin with a bit of sidespin. what do you do? try to re-loop? you are going to have to be in position early and really overpower *your own spin* ... no prizes for how that usually ends. do you play defensive? another prize for guessing how that ends?

maybe you need to combine tactics of : placement, more varied/disguised spin (include a lot of no-spin/slight topspin/slight backspin) to set up your killer loop/drive/smash. serves are a good starting point, use very short but disguised no-spin/slight top spin ... with placement you can set yourself up for 3rd/5th ball attacks.

also, when given back your own topspin as backspin : reset the rally by using a short push ... this gets you out of having to reloop your own spin and forces the opponent to move a lot more if you have been pushing them away from the table with your attacks. more movement = less time to put in a quality return and more opportunities for you to use placement to win the point vs raw power/spin/speed.

but above all else : you need to be patient and adapt don't let them or their tactics get into your head as you will effectively be playing *their game*

good luck

Why do you need to do more drives, blocks and topspins? Do you lose in the pushing game and don't even get to play your game?

It has been covered already but I will just say this.
From my own experience back when I started TT in my first year I was put in a Division 4 team and I came across playing like this at least 50% of the time. At the time my game style was modern defender (still very noob to TT though) and I just couldn't beat these guys or if I did it was very boring.
I quickly switched my game style to being an allround FH and BH spin orientated attacking game. I practised drills in my training session/s opening up against backspin and then playing to corners. Within a month I stopped losing to all of them and my game developed further. I also managed to beat the top guy with that style.

Practise a slow but very spinny opening topsin vs backspin so it becomes so consistent you never lose a point from it. This will be the very first thing that will earn you easy points, and if this doesn't the next shot probably will.

Ndragon said:

I practised drills in my training session/s opening up against backspin and then playing to corners. Within a month I stopped losing to all of them and my game developed further. I also managed to beat the top guy with that style.

Practise a slow but very spinny opening topsin vs backspin so it becomes so consistent you never lose a point from it. This will be the very first thing that will earn you easy points, and if this doesn't the next shot probably will.

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Really good advice. Once you start topspinning these lower division defenders, their game will start to crumble. As they are lower division, they probably don't really have the skills to defend against many topspin attacks. So one or two topspins well placed topspins and you'll win the point.

Exactly - slow spinny FH loop against backspin practice, over and over again.

They play this pushing game with inverted - at least on one side, often on both sides. When you learn to loop this massive backspin, they are in deep trouble already against your first loop - the ball will not get back or will be very high and you can smash it.

The opening FH loop is the most important shot in the game. A short backspin serve and an opening FH loop will work against almost everybody and if you master these two shots, you will improve rapidly in ranking.

Serve long and fast, then kill the ball

Get a defender and practice against them. Forcing yourself to topspin every chop will make you very consistent in brushing the ball against backspin. This is of course highly useful for playing against an offensive player as well as lower level players will always tend to return a backspin service with a push.

Another view is that they are currently better than you. Viewing them as “negative players” will inhibit your growth. Use the suggestions here to develop further, and view their style as a challenge to overcome.

allencorn said:

Another view is that they are currently better than you. Viewing them as “negative players” will inhibit your growth. Use the suggestions here to develop further, and view their style as a challenge to overcome.

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I second this. It is quite possible you're (without realising it) looking down on these players as if they aren't as good as you.
When you get your slow high spin opening consistent try to hype yourself up when playing these players. CHO or fist pump when you win a point from putting a lot of spin. Or could even just do it now. It will get your mind into a place where you feel these guys are a real challenge and you're trying to beat the last boss in a game.
Makes the game more exciting and you will naturally play more of your own game because you will be hyped up

Well if such a players consistently wins vs you they are better and giving you FREE trading, like training free of charge... dammit Germans are more clear on this... kostenlos...

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Ndragon said:

Practise a slow but very spinny opening topsin vs backspin so it becomes so consistent you never lose a point from it. This will be the very first thing that will earn you easy points, and if this doesn't the next shot probably will.

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Great advice.
Another thing you should try the next game is simply not to play to their anti-spin. In many case these players are overly reliant on their antispin/pips etc for blocking, and you can force through their forehand. Check if this is the case.
Even if they are good with twiddling, you're forcing them to make a decision whether or not to do so and ultimately waste time.


Also these players rely a lot on psychology. Meaning, when you execute your technique properly and you know it, but still your ball comes flying out of the table or into the net, you start doubting yourself and try to adjust your technique. This is a very very common phenomenon with beginners which is part of why they have such a hard time against pips/anti. KEEP THIS IN MIND - don't 'adjust', just spend the time learning and understanding exactly what happens to the ball.

Against these guys I like to push long and fast, with a bit of spin. So that they generally return a long one and I can loop that ball easier. If you know they don't attack much, then you can try pushing long/fast multiple times until they send one long. Provided you can stay in it long enough!