How Can We Protect Female Players From Larry Nasser Types In Table Tennis?

This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jun 2017
330
219
552
How Can We Protect Female Players From Larry Nassar Types In Table Tennis?

Any ideas on how to protect female players from the kinds of abuse from Doctors, Coaches, and Players suffered in the Olympic gymnastics circles now in the news? Hotlines? Booklets?

Safesport Hotline:
866-200-0796
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
This user has been banned.
Dec 2017
135
93
329
In USATT to be a certified coach, you have to do the SAFE SPORT screening... whatever that entails, whether it is a credit check at Experian or a full Top Secret Clearance Background Investigation... who knows?

Whoa dogies. Back in '92, when I became a Certified USATT Club Coach, all you had to do was pass a written test asking you questions like name three manufacturers of table tennis equipment, four different inverted rubbers, what's antispin and long pips and what's a loop drive?

Apparently the times sure have a-changed. Now you gotta prove you're not a prevert before USATT will let you get within three table lengths of little Jeremy or Jessica.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Xanderngzien
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jun 2017
330
219
552
I started reading about the SAFESPORT program in the US. It's quite extensive. It's run by the US Olympic Committee and applies to all the sports that are part of olympics, like USATT that governs table tennis. Here's a booklet from the Youth hockey people who are in all 50 states:

http://www.caha.com/docs/USA_Hockey_SafeSport_Program_Handbook.pdf

I imagine USATT has a SAFESPORT coordinator.


edit:
Here is the USATT statement on SAFESPORT from just three months ago:
https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0L...365A33B7/RK=2/RS=CPnvxQWnQceoHFCVfIqmJVUeA1U-
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jun 2017
330
219
552
In USATT to be a certified coach, you have to do the SAFE SPORT screening... whatever that entails, whether it is a credit check at Experian or a full Top Secret Clearance Background Investigation... who knows?
It's not a good idea to exaggerate something to ridicule it, especially when it is extremely serious. Here is the actual background check for table tennis adults involved with children:
https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis/Features/2014/July/07/SafeSport-Background-Check
 
says ok, I will go back and make sure you have access. Be...
says ok, I will go back and make sure you have access. Be...
Well-Known Member
Nov 2010
3,568
5,931
10,356
Read 8 reviews
That check as described seems pretty insufficient to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OhWell
says ok, I will go back and make sure you have access. Be...
says ok, I will go back and make sure you have access. Be...
Well-Known Member
Nov 2010
3,568
5,931
10,356
Read 8 reviews
I noticed that the background check is only done in the same county where the prospective coach currently lives, going back seven years. In some large US metro areas, in fact the ones with the most active junior TT development, players at some clubs come from multiple counties (because the city and it's suburbs spreads over several counties). It is certainly true where I live. Someone can live in Houston (where I live) and easily move around among three and maybe four counties and still be within easy commuting distance of all of the main clubs. Maybe this is not a huge threat. The thing is, though, the doctor from USA gymnastics would not have been caught. Maybe now the enormity of what he did has been revealed and people would speak out.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: OhWell
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,821
13,211
30,389
Read 27 reviews
I have no problem making fun of insufficient or inept procedures, especially if it causes more awareness or motivation to fix it.

I state for the record that sexual harassment is still to this day a serious workplace and public problem. A lot of progress and improvement have been made over the years, yet there still needs to be a LOT more to be done with individuals' attitudes and values. It is not something accomplished by legislation or physically pounding it into people... although that one method cured a lot of other issues with me in my young days.

Sexual assault is a criminal act that needs to be addressed and treated as such. Although awareness and values have improved, it is still a huge problem. Unacceptable. Criminals doing this often have a criminal desire or intent, see an opportunity to do it, and have a perception, reality, or indifference/don't care of not getting caught. Some go to huge lengths exerting power over victims to keep them quiet. This is real bad by anyone's standards.

Victims for many reasons do not immediately get a medical exam and police interview to report it. Just the obvious physical and mental tiring aspects are real tough... think, after the trauma, just getting to the medical center, the hours long interview and then followed by another long session with an investigator who will ask tough questions... just that alone is tough, not withstanding other issues like retaliation or shaming or victim blaming or ridicule or supporters of perp doing things...

If not addressed right away, an assault that occurs is difficult to prove in court... failure to collect the physical evidence in a manner that is proper for an investigation makes it darned difficult to get a conviction... and the perps know this too.

then the defence puts victim through the ringer again but more strongly... often they bring up undesireable personal details or say it was consensual or blame the victim... so these are some factors why there is only teens percentages of assaults reported and not all result in conviction... if the perp is football star, the whole school is against victim.

Then there are judges who decide sentences for convicted rapists... who give a laughable jail time... we see this too much.

No wonder why many victims are reluctant to even report it... takes a LOT of continued moral courage and physical too... just to see it through. They face constant pressures, it is real tough to take it all the way.

I am discussing situation in USA... it is worse in some other countries.

Then there are some that know they can lie and get others in trouble... that happens too, it is also wrong and tough to fix. I have seen so many military lose their position over very flimsy evidence... also seen many go free despite overwhelming evidence. It is tough.

We in our societies settle stuff in courts. We used to settle it permanently outside of court and that was a huge motivator to not do it in the first place. Make your own opinions and judgment or overall right and wrong and what is best interest of society...

We need to make an environment where it is not discouraging victim from timely reporting, yet also not have false accusations. That is a difficult balance.

Is my position clear to any and everyone?


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jun 2017
330
219
552
...
We need to make an environment where it is not discouraging victim from timely reporting, yet also not have false accusations. That is a difficult balance....


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
This is not true. There is no difficult balance between timely reporting and preventing false accusations. We as a society are lagging way behind in providing a system for timely reporting and providing adequate help for victims and adequate punishment for sexual criminals (as your long article details.) That means now is the time to charge ahead with innovative ways to protect girls in sports.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Feb 2012
2,010
1,441
4,714
Read 1 reviews
Der echte is right about the balance. There were lots of occasions where the victim was not actually a victim but instead wanted to make money after a successfull lawsuit against an alledged rapist or sexual misbehaving person. Its easy to say its easy but one can simply look at what happened after the harvey weinstein scandal, suddenly half of hollywood was sexually harassed
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,821
13,211
30,389
Read 27 reviews
Boys aren't important? They get abused too... and their abusers escape punishment too.

Are falsely accused individuals not important?

I say this as I have seen so many get a punishment or administrative action for an accusation without physical evidence based on flimsy testimony... prosecuted by an organization motivated by a desire to show the public they are committed to strongly pursuing results to address the problem...

The problem is best addressed on a few fronts...

by everyone getting high values and the right attitude... doesn't happen with a law, but progress starts with leaders and education, awareness of rights and procedures by everyone, prevention training, trading on how to help, awareness of why victims don't report or see medical for evidence collection, awareness and existence of the right people to see... sufficient training and funding of all involved responders...

The physical workplace setup... are there places and opportunity for isolation... is there light everywhere... not possible to do it all... bathrooms and offices are not open places.

The criminal elements... opportunity... reduce towards eliminating... perception they can get away with it... if conditions to improve likelihood victims report, then the criminal is less likely to do it the victim often knows the attacker.

Leadership... has a responsibility to examine conditions and improve... also attitude of leaders is huge... often they are part of problem... if they show no compassion, indifference or make innuendos, they make the organization know they cannot be trusted to support prevention or victims, which lowers the propensity to report.

Leadership has a responsibility to do risk assessment and implement controls, in the case of the coach in question, could do sudden unannounced safety checks... that alone would have caught that coach sooner.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,821
13,211
30,389
Read 27 reviews
As for how punishment should go for a convicted abuser, I would not be opposed to the use of a chainsaw to cut off their parts and hands and cauterize the open wound with a very hot iron... or something similar horrific.

Doesn't matter what I feel should happen to an abuser... the court of law it gets settled there, unless someone else administers justice.

If everyone is too aggressive in pursuing things, it gets used against them.

If the president declares all abusers will be prosecuted and WILL be sentenced, it will be used in favor of defence for abuser... no fair trial possible, guilt and sentence predeclared...

A victim should have every chance to know how to report abuse and how to go about it, be supported at every level, and should not be afraid of someone declaring they are falsely accused or shaming/blaming... like someone saying why you wear those clothes there?

It is also unacceptable for someone to falsely accuse... you address that by supporting the claim, investigating and seeing where the evidence leads... A national database for accusations should be kept, the fact that someone is watching is effective prevention to a degree.

At the same time, there are numerous procedures to follow on evidence collection and reporting. If the ones involved in performing or supervising are wrong in any way or even appear to be, the criminal case is a fail. That doesn't serve victims and it happens.

People sometimes succeed on false accusations and someone is in jail... then later accuser admits it was false... that should be punished too... but if everyone goes overboard, then it is discouraging to victims to report for fear of punishment of false accusation... that shouldn't happen... but it has where it is handled by military or university.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,821
13,211
30,389
Read 27 reviews
Der echte is right about the balance. There were lots of occasions where the victim was not actually a victim but instead wanted to make money after a successfull lawsuit against an alledged rapist or sexual misbehaving person. Its easy to say its easy but one can simply look at what happened after the harvey weinstein scandal, suddenly half of hollywood was sexually harassed
I am more inclined to believe victims in this case... that guy had one heck of a power grip over things and was supported by everyone... he used his power to shut everyone up I believe... the victims perceived they had little recourse, even though if enough reported a criminal complaint, eventually he would have been brought to light.

Like you though, I do not believe it was 50 percent of the population. One is one too many though.

We must be careful to follow legal procedure and support victims, but should not over rule constitutional rights... unless an alternate enforcer declares that someone's constitutional rights no longer apply and go for it... even so right now governments are doing exactly that in the name of terrorist prevention or whatever is convenient.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Jun 2017
330
219
552
USATT has hired a full-time person to make sure all coaches are trained in protection for children from sexual predators. This is very good in the discussions about the gymnast scandal. Children and parents will be encouraged to watch out for rapists. Table Tennis is such a great sport. It must be safe.
 
Top