Advice please - Thinking about TIBHAR DRINKHALL ALLROUND CARBON CLASSIC Blade

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Afternoon all,

(this is my first post and its only my second year of playing in a league so please go easy on me!)

I am thinking about purchasing this as a blade i can use for the next few years and to start to refine my skills and shots.
"TIBHAR DRINKHALL ALLROUND CARBON CLASSIC TABLE TENNIS BLADE" from bribartt
(I would include the link but i don't have enough posts to do so)

I have looked for reviews of this blade but I can't find anything. Can anyone advice if this is a good blade for taking it to the next level or if this brand is a good one to try out?

Thanks,
Mark
 
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It's a great brand and you're in the right direction looking at ALL/ALL+ speed-level blades. Personally though (and lots of people on this website tend to agree), I would recommand an all-wood blade at this stage of your development. I'm sure the regular version of Drinkhall All Classic (blue handle) is more than fine.

Forget about 1% margins and such, the idea is to get as much input as you can each time you play and for that, there's no beating the feeling of an all-wood blade. If you lose in terms of "sweet-spot" and consistency then great, you'll have to correct your stroke in order to get it right (as opposed to wondering what's going on).
 
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Hi loiettino, thanks for replying.

I bought - in July 16 - from Custom table tennis bats site, a premade bat called "Blutenkirsche Black Mamba" for £45 all in.
I can't find much details on it now except for a carbon edition that this definitely isn't!!
It is certainly a beginner's bat (from what I understand anyway)

Hmmm, cool, thanks for the tip. Sounds like a good idea.
Is there a go to all round blade that one would recommend over the Drinkhall all-round classic?
 
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Stiga Allround Evolution
Yasaka Sweden Extra
Donic Appelgren Allplay
Stiga Offensive Classic
Butterfly Primorac Off-

If you wanted to step up in quality and in price range a little:

OSP Virtuoso Off-

Any of those would be a decent choice.

Pair it with rubbers like:

Nexy Karis M
Xiom Vega Intro
Xiom Vega Pro or Europe
Tibhar Aurus Sound

Or, really, any number of other rubbers. Baracuda, FXS....

Probably, getting the same rubber for FH and BH makes sense unless you know specifically what your BH needs that is different than your FH.

A setup like one of those rubbers with one of those blades will feel like a nice step up.
 
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Stiga Allround Evolution
Yasaka Sweden Extra
Donic Appelgren Allplay
Stiga Offensive Classic
Butterfly Primorac Off-

If you wanted to step up in quality and in price range a little:

OSP Virtuoso Off-

Any of those would be a decent choice.

Pair it with rubbers like:

Nexy Karis M
Xiom Vega Intro
Xiom Vega Pro or Europe
Tibhar Aurus Sound

Or, really, any number of other rubbers. Baracuda, FXS....

Probably, getting the same rubber for FH and BH makes sense unless you know specifically what your BH needs that is different than your FH.

A setup like one of those rubbers with one of those blades will feel like a nice step up.

There should be a link to this kind of post on the front page or something, I can only imagine the number of times you and the usual suspects have posted this (no offense @beefy, I know you're new!).
 
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There should be a link to this kind of post on the front page or something, I can only imagine the number of times you and the usual suspects have posted this (no offense @beefy, I know you're new!).

@Ioiettino I've thought the exact same thing! And it's nice to see the equipment experts and others on the forums dish out the same valuable advice time and time again as if it were the first time! Patience and dedication in helping out others.

@beefy Follow any of Carl's blade/rubbers recommendations and you'll have yourself a great blade that will feel good, help you progress and develop the right strokes and can last you a really long time (some of the blades he recommended are not only recommended to beginners but are also used by professionals who favor control, touch & feel). And definitely use the same rubber on both sides, 1.9 or 2mm thickness to start.
 
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No, why would you limit yourself that way? If you feel your FH is stronger, sure... but there’s no reason to choose a thinner Bh rubber form the start. Maybe BH is your strong side?
 
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No, why would you limit yourself that way? If you feel your FH is stronger, sure... but there’s no reason to choose a thinner Bh rubber form the start. Maybe BH is your strong side?

Exactly what I´m thinking.

Any "let´s make the backhand rubber slower/more controlled/thinner" recommendation may just as well end as a self-fulfilling prophecy, as the backhand doesn´t get an equal chance from the start.
Yes, most players are forehand-dominant (because their coaches are), and eventually such decision may make sense. But for the learning phase, pick identical rubbers in identical thickness (not too thin).

As for the Drinkhall Allround Classic, it´s a very well manufactured blade with good feeling, but I am not entirely sure it is worth the extra money compared to the ones mentioned by Carl.
 
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By the way, I know a lot of people recommend thinner rubbers fairly regularly. I know lots of people say things like, "for more control, use 2.0 or 1.9...." etc.

I have never liked rubber that was less than max. There was one time when someone got me a gift and got a 1.9 rubber. I totally hated it. I swapped it for max fairly quickly.

Now, when I really didn't know much about equipment, I thought it was just a quirk for me. But I am, at this point comfortable saying that many people who get themselves thinner rubbers are doing themselves a disservice. Not all. But many.

When I heard Werner Schlager say that a developing player should always and only use Max thickness rubber and that thinner rubber would cause the player to change their stroke and it would be something they would have to unlearn later, I realized there was something that a lot of people are missing.

I will say it differently. In the context of what Werner Schlager said his statement is complete. But most of you hearing the statement are not getting the context within which Schlager said that. So I will provide some of the context. He was talking about someone who wants to learn the technique for getting heavy, heavy topspin on their loops. And I am not sure they had rubbers like MXP or MXS back when he said that.

So, here is what I would say:

If you want to develop a modern looping game, where the main factor in developing technique is developing the ability to generate massive topspin, you don't really want thinner than Max or 2.0. Most of the time Max is preferable. But it depends on a few factors like the hardness of the sponge and the weight of the rubber. :)

If your game is really not based on learning to increase your level of topspin on loops, or your game involves chopping or flat hitting, then thinner sponge will probably make sense.

But if what you want is to develop the ability to get the ball to sink into the sponge, have the topsheet wrap and grab the ball, and have the sponge catapult the ball out with a lot of spin from the distortion of the sponge and topsheet and their subsequent rebound--if you want to learn how to do that well on your topspin shots--then you do not really want a thinner rubber. Even if you are not good enough to do what I just said at this point. :)

Everyone has a right to their own opinions. I am okay that people like Yogi are certainly going to disagree with what I have just said. But it is worth thinking about what Werner Schlager said and why he may have said it. And I think he knows more about this stuff than most of us. :) Yeah, I do think he was talking to youth who were training on a national team. Perhaps we are not at that level. :) But there are enough of us where the fundamentals of what Schlager was talking about still apply.

For some people those thinner rubbers get the player used to and relying on flatter strokes with more drive and less spin. They still work. They still have decent spin. But not the same as they would have if you really learned to use mechanical spin.

Also, most people think that thinner sponge is slower. That is actually not true. Thicker sponge allows you to spin more because there is more sponge for the ball to sink into. But the sponge actually cushions/dampens the impact. The thicker sponge allows you to swing faster while swinging tangentially because there is more depth of sponge before the ball impacts the wood.

But on flatter strokes, the thinner sponge is faster. There have been many tests that show this. On a flatter stroke a thinner sponge is faster. Not slower. So the thinner sponge allows you to flat hit better. I would say that is part of why someone wanting to develop more spin would not want it.
 
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Here. If you want to bore yourself with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pY_iHtycaA

The 2.0 sponge, on direct impact, is clearly faster and clearly travels farther. :)

When the rubber is placed at a 60-degree angle (so, tangential impact) the 2.2mm sponge creates more arc and the 2.0mm creates a lower, flatter trajectory. Therefore, harder to land on the table. :) Read: less control if you are trying to spin the ball. :)
 
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Carl,

This is where I disagree with you.

1.9(-2.0mm) is not a thin sponge. Some people hate feeling the wood on their shots, some people do not. But there are many players who if you gave them 1.9mm sponge without telling them it is 1.9mm sponge, they would play the same or even better and not give a damn about it. But when they know it, they make all kinds of excuses.

The two biggest things about thinner sponge are feeling and weight, so it is especially important if you use extremely hard sponge and want to control the weight. In softer sponges, if you hate the woody feeling, max makes more sense, but if you are brush looper, max makes less sense. In the end, it is something people think too hard about. Just play your game.

NL
 
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Carl,

This is where I disagree with you.

1.9(-2.0mm) is not a thin sponge. Some people hate feeling the wood on their shots, some people do not. But there are many players who if you gave them 1.9mm sponge without telling them it is 1.9mm sponge, they would play the same or even better and not give a damn about it. But when they know it, they make all kinds of excuses.

The two biggest things about thinner sponge are feeling and weight, so it is especially important if you use extremely hard sponge and want to control the weight. In softer sponges, if you hate the woody feeling, max makes more sense, but if you are brush looper, max makes less sense. In the end, it is something people think too hard about. Just play your game.

NL

I actually get your point. And I would say it is valuable. But it is worth noting that you are talking about recommending thinner sponge to a player who is decently high level who already knows how to spin the ball fairly well.

So, I am not entirely sure we disagree. Which is why, in my post I made this statement.

But it depends on a few factors like the hardness of the sponge and the weight of the rubber. :)

I definitely think, that with rubbers like MXP and MXS, 2.0 is more than thick enough. Especially for a player with decent technique.

But I guess, here is a question NextLevel:

Would you recommend someone who wants to learn to spin the ball to get T05fx in 1.7 or 1.9 for more control? How about Vega Europe? Aurus Sound?


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
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I actually get your point. And I would say it is valuable. But it is worth noting that you are talking about recommending thinner sponge to a player who is decently high level who already knows how to spin the ball fairly well.

So, I am not entirely sure we disagree. Which is why, in my post I made this statement.



I definitely think, that with rubbers like MXP and MXS, 2.0 is more than thick enough. Especially for a player with decent technique.

But I guess, here is a question NextLevel:

Would you recommend someone who wants to learn to spin the ball to get T05fx in 1.7 or 1.9 for more control? How about Vega Europe? Aurus Sound?


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Not necessarily. But again remember that many people play with stuff that is not ideal for them. I read Schlager's response and his point was not to start players on equipment unsuitable for the looping game if the point was to make them loopers. It's hard to imagine that many people can't loop reasonably well with 1.8mm sponge or 2.0mm sponge, even with the plastic ball issues. When I first broke 1900, I played with 1.8mm sponge of some Juic Nanospin rubber that someone was pimping around at the time. On both sides. Of course I can't stay with that setup if I want to become a world class player or I want to pretend to be a world class player. But can I execute some shots better with it? Sure.

I remember that Danny Seemiller played with 1.9mm T05 for a long time and may do so today though I can not be sure with the plastic ball. Anyone who has played Danny knows he has one of the spinniest forehands you will ever see. The ball will almost never fly past you but the ball will often go by you just because you can't believe where it lands and you don't want to see what happens when you touch it wrong. I also know an older guy who was England top 100 and is probably still a top get of some sort. He said by accident he downgraded to 1.9mm T05 on forehand as well as backhand and later to 1.9 T80 on both sides and his game got better each time. I also remember Alex Polyakov of Breaking 2000 fame using 2.0mm because He, like his coach, had ball control issues with max rubbers.

My point is not that one should not use max sponge. My point is that 1.7mm and above are looping rubbers and that you need the sponge more to have more dwell against powerful shots from better players or to hit with power. But most of the basics of looping for players below 2300 can be learned with a medium or hard 1.7mm+ sponge, with the thicker sponges more important for counterlooping or topspin blocking very powerful shots. And the extra control from thinner sponge helps some players with things in their game that can be important (pushing).

Bobrow was comparing Ma Long and Fan Zhendong forehand rubbers at one of their finals last year and he made the point that Ma Long has a thinner sponged forehand rubber than Fan. Whether it was true or false given the risk of judgments which may have been made without official measurements, the fact that it was in the scope of reasonable discussion for me makes a point that should not be summarily dismissed.
 
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Not necessarily. But again remember that many people play with stuff that is not ideal for them. I read Schlager's response and his point was not to start players on equipment unsuitable for the looping game if the point was to make them loopers. It's hard to imagine that many people can't loop reasonably well with 1.8mm sponge or 2.0mm sponge, even with the plastic ball issues. When I first broke 1900, I played with 1.8mm sponge of some Juic Nanospin rubber that someone was pimping around at the time. On both sides. Of course I can't stay with that setup if I want to become a world class player or I want to pretend to be a world class player. But can I execute some shots better with it? Sure.

I remember that Danny Seemiller played with 1.9mm T05 for a long time and may do so today though I can not be sure with the plastic ball. Anyone who has played Danny knows he has one of the spinniest forehands you will ever see. The ball will almost never fly past you but the ball will often go by you just because you can't believe where it lands and you don't want to see what happens when you touch it wrong. I also know an older guy who was England top 100 and is probably still a top get of some sort. He said by accident he downgraded to 1.9mm T05 on forehand as well as backhand and later to 1.9 T80 on both sides and his game got better each time. I also remember Alex Polyakov of Breaking 2000 fame using 2.0mm because He, like his coach, had ball control issues with max rubbers.

My point is not that one should not use max sponge. My point is that 1.7mm and above are looping rubbers and that you need the sponge more to have more dwell against powerful shots from better players or to hit with power. But most of the basics of looping for players below 2300 can be learned with a medium or hard 1.7mm+ sponge, with the thicker sponges more important for counterlooping or topspin blocking very powerful shots. And the extra control from thinner sponge helps some players with things in their game that can be important (pushing).

Bobrow was comparing Ma Long and Fan Zhendong forehand rubbers at one of their finals last year and he made the point that Ma Long has a thinner sponged forehand rubber than Fan. Whether it was true or false given the risk of judgments which may have been made without official measurements, the fact that it was in the scope of reasonable discussion for me makes a point that should not be summarily dismissed.

And my point has very little to do with more advanced players.

It has to do with more beginner players asking for equipment advice and how some people who give advice on equipment are comfortable saying:

"Get T05fx". "You can't control T05fx, get it in 1.7mm sponge so it is easier to control."

Rather than simply recommending a rubber that the player could control. :)

I would go with a middle of the road rubber that the player can control in Max thickness every time. Then the choice for thickness can be based on the player. If a player can't control a rubber like Vega Pro or Vega Intro, well, maybe Mark V or Sriver, or 2008XP. :) Rather than a more expensive rubber that is too spin sensitive and trying to make the sponge thinner to control the more expensive rubber.
 
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