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    1. Top | #1
      Wetwork_Orange is offline
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      European Players & Tacky Rubbers

      .... or lack thereof. Can anyone explain why not many Euro pros use tacky rubbers? Hell, any non Chinese for that matter. I mean im sure its common at the amateur\semi-pro level. But i've yet to see a top non-Chinese pro use tacky rubbers. Anyone care to explain that to me?

    2. Top | #2
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      Sponsorship deals

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      I guess outside of the ultra special National Hurricane 3 Neo that the top Chinese use there isn't any tacky rubber that can compete with Tenergy or Evolution or whatever rubber Non-Chinese pros are using.

      Sponsorships might also play a role but Butterfly and Tibhar (two main sponsors currently) have their own tacky rubber lines with tensor/spring sponges now.

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    5. Top | #4
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Wetwork_Orange View Post
      .... or lack thereof. Can anyone explain why not many Euro pros use tacky rubbers? Hell, any non Chinese for that matter. I mean im sure its common at the amateur\semi-pro level. But i've yet to see a top non-Chinese pro use tacky rubbers. Anyone care to explain that to me?
      You need to be coached to use them from an early age to fully adjust to their advantages and disadvantages - same with Euro rubbers but the advantages of Euro rubbers show up more naturally in rally shots at the intermediate level. Pros tune a lot of their instincts to their equipment and rubber behavior is probably the largest part of that.

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    7. Top | #5
      zeio is offline
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      You need the Chinese gene, specifically DHSH3, common among those of Han Chinese, to be able to unleash the full potential of tacky rubber.

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    9. Top | #6
      VSDG is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      You need the Chinese gene, specifically DHSH3, common among those of Han Chinese, to be able to unleash the full potential of tacky rubber.
      With the traditional herbal Chinese medicine consumed over a decade that oozes out with your sweat and boosts your rubbers when you wipe it with your hands.

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    11. Top | #7
      Wetwork_Orange is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by VSDG View Post
      I guess outside of the ultra special National Hurricane 3 Neo that the top Chinese use there isn't any tacky rubber that can compete with Tenergy or Evolution or whatever rubber Non-Chinese pros are using.

      Sponsorships might also play a role but Butterfly and Tibhar (two main sponsors currently) have their own tacky rubber lines with tensor/spring sponges now.
      OMG fellow Singaporean. I could do with a hitting kaki.

    12. Top | #8
      G_ZHANG is offline
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      I think there are several reasons:

      1 Sponsorship deals as Lightzy mentioned.
      DHS has the whole Chinese team. I think it is unlikely they will sign or sponsor any euro players.
      Not to mention about the financial support, this also leads to the second problem:

      2 accessibility.
      Blue sponge national H3 has limited supply on the open market. Without sponsorship, I am not sure how easy or difficult to order those direct from DHS for euro pro players. Not to mention the special customized version with more specified, accurate and consistent sponge hardness.
      Pro players probably use 50-100 sheets every year.. How would you choose H3 if you don't have a confident supply.

      3 user friendly / boosting
      H3 is no better than tenergy / evolution or other non-tacky rubbers without boosting. I mean constant boosting like once or twice a month.
      Lots of people don't like to reglue their racket every 2-4 weeks.
      For young players also, euro coaches probably wouldn't recommend H3, as the coaches don't play H3. Why not just recommend a non-tacky tensor rubber which is better(than non-boosting H3) and less to care about (boosting) ?
      If most young players in euro start their table tennis with non-tacky rubbers, they would probably keep using those. The technique they formed is with non-tacky rubbers.
      Most Chinese young players start with H3, even without boosting. They used to that, the technique is for the H3.


      The above discussed about why not many euro players use DHS or H3.
      What about other tacky rubbers like K1 or spinart. Are they any good?
      They are not as good as DHS. The sponge from DHS is unique, hard, supportive, especially good for tacky. Other brands tried tacky but still not as good.
      It's like each brand's secret. Just like DHS tried to make a good non-tacky rubber(tinarc etc) or a tacky rubber which does not requiting boosting (H3-60) but never succeed....


      Those are some of my thought.

      btw, at leased Dimi tried H3 before.
      https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...World-Cup-2016!
      Feel free to ask me anything about Chinese equipment... Hurricane, w968, 506, n301....

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    14. Top | #9
      Simas is offline
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      Besides all the known, that playing tacky Chinese rubbers requires different technique and you have o train for that from your young days and ect... has anyone having European style technique tried using H3?

      I haven't tried anything new for quite some time and the EJ in me is getting restless, so I thought maybe I should try a really tacky rubber (H3). Besides it doesn't cost a fortune if I don't like it

    15. Top | #10
      zeio is offline
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      Kristian Karlsson said he played with Chinese rubber early on to fix his forehand.

      More Japanese players are playing or have played with H3 in recent years, due in part to their Chinese coaches. That is a good thing as they could see the potentials that Chinese rubber offers and how that shapes up the Chinese game.

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    17. Top | #11
      Baal is offline
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      I for one have no idea how to play with it no matter how boosted it is. The stuff Chinese coaches here use feels horrible to me. If I had started out with it then I would feel differently. I suspect a lot of people who didn't learn to play with some version of it have that reaction. Still it is odd that the absence of tacky forhand rubberrs for non- Chinese professional players is so complete, even if the latest top secret version is unavailable.
      Last edited by Baal; 02-26-2018 at 11:56 AM.

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    19. Top | #12
      NextLevel is offline
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      Samsonov has used Grip S before. The highest level Euro player I know that consistently uses a tacky rubber on the forehand is this guy. He is not as high level as he used to be.

      Also, I feel that more players dabbled in tacky rubbers during the speed glue era because that was a huge leveller from what I hear. Nowadays, it is harder to get optimal performance as boosting is not as impactful.

      https://youtu.be/-b-iKpuKK1k
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    21. Top | #13
      Baal is offline
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      Actually NL's last post reminds me that at one point I used Butterfly Tackifire but I used so much speed glue in those days that birds flying overhead got dizzy. That made it a lot harder to make big distinctions between rubbers. Like he said it was a great equalizer as far as rubbers were concerned. (Boosting is a pale imitation of speed glue!). At some point I switched to Bryce (mostly, and of course heavily glued) until Tenergy came out. I think I liked Bryce better because it wasn't tacky. It was a long time ago. Actually somewhere around 2007 I also used F1 Desto because I kind of got tired of speed gluing. That was one of the first ESN Tensors. Nobody would like it now.

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    23. Top | #14
      jawien is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      That made it a lot harder to make big distinctions between rubbers. Like he said it was a great equalizer as far as rubbers were concerned. (Boosting is a pale imitation of speed glue!). [...]
      This is a great point Baal. I remember an interview with Jan Ove (or maybe Jörgen Persson), in which he was talking about the speed glue era and how they glued their rubbers "hand in hand" with their Chinese/Asian counterparts. This gave them the confidence, that each of them, plays with basically "the same quality" of the equipment.

      It is a little regretful for me, that with today's rubbers situation, tt falls almost into the Formula 1 sport category. This not true for other racket sports.

      I would very much like the equipment to be standardized somehow, but at the same time, have not a slightest idea how ...
      Last edited by jawien; 02-26-2018 at 09:29 PM.

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    25. Top | #15
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      Thomas Keinath plays National H3N BS ever since i know him.
      Not sure if he's considered as top pro but he used to be top 60 or top 50 WRL

    26. Top | #16
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      Why should any table tennis rubber have a significant advantage over any other table tennis rubber? Does anyone care to explain the reason or reasons for this to me?

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      Quote Originally Posted by berndtjgmann View Post
      Why should any table tennis rubber have a significant advantage over any other table tennis rubber? Does anyone care to explain the reason or reasons for this to me?
      The same reason why we want the most suitable combi for each own style of play.

      "As spinny as possible!"
      "Not affected by any spin!"
      "As fast as possible!"
      "As absorbing as possible!"
      "Very random return that confuse the opponent!"
      "An obnoxious rubber!"
      "A very quiet rubber!"

      And the list keep longer

      Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

    28. Top | #18
      jawien is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by berndtjgmann View Post
      Why should any table tennis rubber have a significant advantage over any other table tennis rubber? Does anyone care to explain the reason or reasons for this to me?
      There are many experts on this forum I wish would explain it professionally for you. BeGo gave you a nice idea already.

      For me the pivotal point is the relation between how fast/spiny is the rubber and yet how much control/feel it gives you (in many different aspects of the game). The best balance here is the main factor while assessing the quality of a rubber.

      Of course everybody has to find his/her balance. Asian players have found their own over decades and European/American/Japan players their own with their rubbers. Totally different traditions.

      But I have an impression, that the speed glue ban in 2008, changed the battleground a little.
      Last edited by jawien; 02-27-2018 at 12:09 AM.

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    30. Top | #19
      berndtjgmann is offline
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      Your answers to my question, BeGo and jawlen, are quite good with respect to what rubber or combination of rubbers a player might choose to suit his/her style of play du jour. They do not, however, address my question in the manner in which I posed it.

      A rubber which is as “spin{n}y as possible” will be disadvantageous to a player who cannot impart or control its spin. A rubber which is “not affected by any spin” or rather is relatively unaffected by spin will not be able to impart much spin. A rubber that is “as fast as possible” will be of no use to a player unable to control its speed. Rubbers which give confusing and random returns are difficult to use and are not used to any extent above the elite level of play. Ditto for “obnoxious rubber{s).

      I am probably the only table tennis player on this forum who began learning table tennis when Americans and possibly (I don’t know) many Europeans were still playing with hard rubber (OX short pips) covered rackets. One had three basic choices to suit one’s style of play: small closely spaced pimples for attacking players, medium sized pimples for all-round players incorporating selective attack and defense, and medium large less densely spaced pimples for defensively oriented players. Thus players did have a choice, though compared to today, a quite small choice, of rubber configurations to suit the way they wished to play, but the advantage conferred by a small closely spaced OX short pimpled rubber vis a vis a medium large densely spaced OX short pimpled rubber in say 1961 was nowhere near the advantage conveyed by a Tenergy or a Hurricane over a Buffalo or Feint Long in 2018,

    31. Top | #20
      jawien is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by berndtjgmann View Post
      Your answers to my question, BeGo and jawlen, are quite good with respect to what rubber or combination of rubbers a player might choose to suit his/her style of play du jour. They do not, however, address my question in the manner in which I posed it.[...]00
      Are you not toying with us Berndtjgmann, since your tt experience dates back to 1961 ... ? ; ) My tt life started like 2008, so I feel a little funny here ... : )

      Ultimately the rubber is always good or not, for a concrete player, representing specific style and way of playing. But ... lets take one style, i.e. say Timo's with his heavy reliance on topspins and generally spin oriented game. Lets go back to 2008 when Tenergies were introduced. Compared to other rubbers at that time, they enabled him to generate much more spin, with relative ease and control. Control meaning that with his technique, he was able to play spinnier and faster balls and still keep them on the table.

      Its harder to explain it with today's rubbers because the difference has diminished more or less I think.

      Btw, I wish the choice you wrote about was so simple nowadays (just 3 different rubbers)... I really mean it. In general I see tt as too much equipment dependent.
      Last edited by jawien; 02-27-2018 at 02:37 AM.

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