European Players & Tacky Rubbers

European Players & Tacky Rubbers

berndtgmann, I see you lured an unsuspecting jawein and an unsuspecting BeGo into your trap.

Please tread carefully. [emoji2]

jawein, I think burningmann was simply hoping to reminisce about the days when the main choice was sandpaper or classic, pips out, hardbat while making the point that, no matter what changes you make, you always give something up to gain something else.

ie:

--A faster rubber usually is harder to control and likely gets less spin.

--A rubber that gets more spin will be more reactive to incoming spin.

--A rubber like anti that is less reactive to spin, makes it harder to generate your own spin.

Every change is a trade off.

But be careful not to get lured too far in. burntmann may get you to switch over to sandpaper. And so far, we are lucky that this has not resulted in long stories about Marty Reismann playing Victor Barna. But that may be just a post or two away. [emoji2]


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

This video may provide some valuable insight.

Ha ha ... I tried to save myself somehow, but it was too late already ... ; )

Victor Barna ... Deos meos ... : )

berndtjgmann said:

Why should any table tennis rubber have a significant advantage over any other table tennis rubber? Does anyone care to explain the reason or reasons for this to me?

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I would be at a marked disadvantage if somebody put Ma Long's rubber on my blade. Everything would play differently and none of my racket angles would be right. Chinese rubber is quite different in how it feels and plays. I don't think it is intrinsically better. I don't think it is the secret of Chinese success either. But if you have played your whole life with a tacky rubber that is what you will stick with it and vice versa. Chinese inverted has been like that for ages.

For those following the thread, and genuinely wondering "just why are Chinese rubbers 'this' or 'that' ", can I suggest you pick one up?

It doesn't have to be H3, although it might as well be, because it's not very expensive! Try it out, see if you like it!

I know people who have played EURO rubbers all their life, but switched to H3 and love it.

For those who simply don't want to try it..... This is my experience.

Having played with mainly Butterfly Offensive rubbers all of my life, I have tried quite a few Chinese style rubbers.

My take aways were:

1. The margin for error on passive/reaction shots is tiny. If you are out of position, and just stick an arm out hoping to get the ball back, it won't work anywhere near as well as EURO/JAP rubbers - The speed from Chinese rubbers is only there when you are being aggressive.

2. The "touch" play around the net is vastly improved - Due to the slow/tacky rubbers, you can play a very consistent short game. I liked it for this.

3. It's easier to generate spin when "pushing" - Comparing it with Tenergy for example, you can be quite aggressive on a push shot with Chinese rubbers, generating a lot of back spin, but still landing on the table. The margin for error is much lower with a quick Tensor rubber.

My conclusion was...... If you have good footwork, like to stay aggressive (and don't like to fish from the back of the table), and want an enhanced touch around the net - Chinese rubbers are a good option.

I also believe anyone can learn how to play with them - The adjustment (whilst quite big), is do-able!

NDH said:

I also believe anyone can learn how to play with them - The adjustment (whilst quite big), is do-able!

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In the context of an amateur experimenting, sure. In the context of a pro who is trying to play his very best and enhance his weapons first and foremost and limit his weaknesses, while not losing to people who are playing at a high level and at their best, not so much. Radical reinvention takes time and is not easy for someone who makes his money playing a certain way. That's why amateurs can experiment with their games more radically than pros.


I suspect in modern TT, if you don't make the switch seriously by 15 years of age, you aren't going to do it permanently unless you are an amateur.

Yep, agree NL.

i guess I was slightly off topic, as I was responding to the people who often ask the differences, and which is better etc..... rather than “why doesn’t a pro change to a Chinese rubber”.

in conclusion.... if you are a Pro...... get off the forum and go and practice! Your game will not be able to take a big equipment change.

For anyone else....... enjoy trying different rubbers!

Anyone else? Even a lot of reasonably high level amateurs aren't going to want to take the time to retool their game that this kind of switch requires. It is very far from trivial. But of course there will always be exceptions. After about five minutes with a Chinese coach's Viscatia with H3 I'd seen enough! Of course you wob't know unless you trry.

Baal said:

Anyone else? Even a lot of reasonably high level amateurs aren't going to want to take the time to retool their game that this kind of switch requires. It is very far from trivial. But of course there will always be exceptions. After about five minutes with a Chinese coach's Viscatia with H3 I'd seen enough! Of course you wob't know unless you trry.

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Yeah, the one thing I hope people get from this is to try it! H3 (Hurricane 3) is genuinely really cheap - Give it a try and see if you like it.

I personally think an amateur at a high level will be able to adapt quite quickly (weeks rather than months - Providing they are training 2/3 times per week).

Especially if you only change your forehand......

G_ZHANG said:

I think there are several reasons:
1 Sponsorship deals as Lightzy mentioned. [...]
2 accessibility. [...]
3 user friendly / boosting [...]

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I think G_ZHANG already gave above quite complete and comprehensive reasons for the pros.

NextLevel said:

In the context of an amateur experimenting, sure. In the context of a pro who is trying to play his very best and enhance his weapons first and foremost and limit his weaknesses, [...]

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You right NextLevel, situation for pros is much different than amateurs but what is common here is for sure the lack of accessibility.

If I study Timo's game and try to imitate him I can go to the store and buy the same equipment he has (well there might be some discussion, but more or less it is true).

If I want to imitate ML, what I'm left with are rubbers that are "sort of" like his. This is just irritating.
Even more so for pros I guess, let's say very serious pros who practice to actually beat ML ... how could they do it with rubbers that are inherently not as good as ML's (Berndtjgmann and Carl ... I know I know ... it's just a thinking shortcut ; )

I'll say it one more time the, Formula 1 like situation in table tennis is irritating. Makes me think i should switch to squash or tennis ... which is of course just never going to happen ... but I tried squash on a side ... cool sport ; )

Rumor has it, USDC, that the founding father of Sports Interrogation, Australia’s pride Greg Letts, has gone Back to the Future and armed himself with a hardbat and is playing quite well with it.

other then butterfly tenergy and Tibhar evolution , Victas has come on the seen coz the whole of the japanese team seems to be using it.
and battle 2 provincial is also a good rubber alternative to H3

... sqash or tennis ... or hardbat for that matter !!
ha ha this is the idea ... ; )

jawien said:

... sqash or tennis ... or hardbat for that matter !!
ha ha this is the idea ... ; )

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I agree it's frustrating people can't get the same equipment as the Chinese National Team (hell..... I don't know why DHS don't just make them all Blue sponge and then no one would know!)

But the same can be said in Tennis - You pick up any "signature" racket, and it will be a million miles from the one the pro uses.

This could be extra weight in the head/handle - Jeez, most of the time the racket is an old discontinued model.

Well it's not that there is ONE Euro technique. Compare Schlager, Kreanga or Waldner to Boll and Maze, you will see a big difference. My brother always had a Boll like technique while I have always played with big strokes. I switched to H3 a while ago and I absolutely love it. He on the other hand loves the Euro rubbers. I don't like that catapult at all, it's just too much for me and my short game improved a lot but the best thing is that I feel I got full control over my forehand strokes.

Fabian said:

[...] My brother always had a Boll like technique while I have always played with big strokes. I switched to H3 a while ago and I absolutely love it.

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I agree the linearity of H3, Skylines is just a great experience. Xiom Asia goes into this direction i think.

But .. the fact that you can't really play with the National versions does not irritate you?

jawien said:

I agree the linearity of H3, Skylines is just a great experience. Xiom Asia goes into this direction i think.

But .. the fact that you can't really play with the National versions does not irritate you?

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I play provincial which is good enough for me and costs half the price of Tenergy. If you are good enough to have the need for national you will get one by DHS for free

Fabian said:

I play provincial which is good enough for me and costs half the price of Tenergy. If you are good enough to have the need for national you will get one by DHS for free

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So you plan to get into the CNT squad ...

@NDH Tennis is great topic, but I'll try to reference it later : )

My well informed friend said, rumor has it, recent Australian's pride of hardbats, Greg Letts got involved with some members of CNT. They lured him into heavy topspins and some goofy random play. As it shows he went viral and currently FZD is down on points. ML' was nowhere near for the rescue as he went home earlier, so the only hope was to call LGL to help with the commentary.


Ground is shaking and no one knows now how far they can go with the game. We'll keep updates.

One thing is that really good por players can have a supply of hurricane BS. Dima had used, YSK is probably using right now, and another Korean player (maybe jeong sangeun a time ago). Their rubbers is probably not as good as ma long rubber, because it was designed for him.

In my personal experience I've tested H3N boosted and like it more than any rubber. Before that was a user of European rubbers but I'm not playing table tennis at that long (only 3 years) so maybe it makes easy the transition.

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