European Players & Tacky Rubbers

NextLevel · Feb 27, 2018

jawien said:
I think G_ZHANG already gave above quite complete and comprehensive reasons for the pros.

You right NextLevel, situation for pros is much different than amateurs but what is common here is for sure the lack of accessibility.

If I study Timo's game and try to imitate him I can go to the store and buy the same equipment he has (well there might be some discussion, but more or less it is true).

If I want to imitate ML, what I'm left with are rubbers that are "sort of" like his. This is just irritating.
Even more so for pros I guess, let's say very serious pros who practice to actually beat ML ... how could they do it with rubbers that are inherently not as good as ML's (Berndtjgmann and Carl ... I know I know ... it's just a thinking shortcut ; )

I'll say it one more time the, Formula 1 like situation in table tennis is irritating. Makes me think i should switch to squash or tennis ... which is of course just never going to happen ... but I tried squash on a side ... cool sport ; )

Accessibility is not the biggest reason, what the Chinese do is not magic. But if you believe it is, that is okay. It's not the kind of thing you get convinced of by just talking about it, there are many good tacky rubbers to play with if you really want to play with them and boosting rubbers is done by a known process. Its the legality of it that some question but that is partly about the competition amongst players and manufacturers at the highest level and we should not confuse the amateur levels with it. Timo's claim is more about openness and the letter of the ITTF law.

If I didn't have arthritis I could easily play tacky rubber.

berndtjgmann · Feb 27, 2018

The main choice of discriminating professionals and amateurs alike in those sweet halcyon bygone days before the Black Plague of sponge forever besotted the once idyllic happy Land of Pong was ordinary pimpled rubber (God bless it) which was used in configurations of small small pimples, medium small small pimples, and slightly larger small pimples.

The result was a sport that when played by the most skillful was as graceful and deadly as Shakespearean swordplay, a dialogue between antagonists Byronic in its beauty, and comprehensible to any intelligent child who has eyes to appreciate.

As for giving something up to gain something else, yes table tennis has indeed elected to do that. And almost every change that table tennis has made to its once majestic legacy has devolved the sport from something once Palestrinian to a Titanical iceberg of unconsonant serial solipsism.

(Damn I’m good. Obscure and boilerplatish, but good, good.). Next up, coming to a station near you: Barna vs. Reisman, finals, 1949 English Open.

UpSideDownCarl · Feb 27, 2018

berndtjgmann said:
The main choice of discriminating professionals and amateurs alike in those sweet halcyon bygone days before the Black Plague of sponge forever besotted the once idyllic happy Land of Pong was ordinary pimpled rubber (God bless it) which was used in configurations of small small pimples, medium small small pimples, and slightly larger small pimples.

The result was a sport that when played by the most skillful was as graceful and deadly as Shakespearean swordplay, a dialogue between antagonists Byronic in its beauty, and comprehensible to any intelligent child who has eyes to appreciate.

As for giving something up to gain something else, yes table tennis has indeed elected to do that. And almost every change that table tennis has made to its once majestic legacy has devolved the sport from something once Palestrinian to a Titanical iceberg of unconsonant serial solipsism.

(Damn I’m good. Obscure and boilerplatish, but good, good.). Next up, coming to a station near you: Barna vs. Reisman, finals, 1949 English Open.

This did make me laugh.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Astorix · Feb 27, 2018

UpSideDownCarl said:
This did make me laugh.

Not only you. Me too. In a very positive way. You are not alone

NextLevel · Feb 27, 2018

UpSideDownCarl said:
This did make me laugh.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Didn't make me laugh - I am not here to have people insult my sport repeatedly. They would be better off finding a hardbat forum which would support their rudeness since they would be amongst friends.

OhWell · Feb 27, 2018

berndtjgmann said:
from something once Palestrinian to a Titanical iceberg of unconsonant serial solipsism.

I'm guessing solipsism is the safest way to miss how little room there is for solipsism in modern table tennis, a sport that is all about reading one another's strokes, and weaving ever more intricate conversations about spin with each other.

Do you also long for geocentrism?

jawien · Feb 27, 2018

berndtjgmann said:
[...]
(Damn I’m good. Obscure and boilerplatish, but good, good.). Next up, coming to a station near you: Barna vs. Reisman, finals, 1949 English Open.

Heavenly as it sounds ... appeared if front of my very own eyes - majestic in it's one minute and thirty seven seconds form! Shakespearean! "Barna's famous backhand flick" ... puts the smile on my soul : )

@Australia’s pride Greg Letts still leads badly, what a man, what a run he has! LGL lost for words, accidentally started to recite Macbeth while simultaneously translating to Mandarin (first edition, pages 17 to 29).

berndtjgmann · Feb 28, 2018

OhWell said:
I'm guessing solipsism is the safest way to miss how little room there is for solipsism in modern table tennis, a sport that is all about reading one another's strokes, and weaving ever more intricate conversations about spin with each other.

Do you also long for geocentrism?

OhWell there is a bit of room for solipsism in modern table tennis. Every time young master Harimoto scores a point or his opponent screws up he CHO!s like a wounded wildebeest as if he were the only player in the joint.

Geocentrism? As obsolete as a banjo bat. I’m a hardcore heliocentrist, as were Barna, Bergmann, Reisman and the enigmatic but erudite Garrett Nash.

Baal · Feb 28, 2018

I would bet a lot that Barna and his opponents were as obsessive about their equipment as profesxsonal athletes are now, even if it was simpler than what we use now and not so many parameters.

Baal · Feb 28, 2018

Easy.

TT is safe, fast, challenging, fun, and can be played well into advanced age and by peoplevwith disabilities including wheelchsir athletes. It is not too expensive and offers a lot of dynamics not seen in other racket sports because of tne importance of spin. The different racket coverings promote a diversity of styles in amateur play not seen in other racket sports. It requires a quite wide range of physical skills to be really good. In many parts of the world it is easy to find organized clubs and competitions.

The bewildering choices of equipment pale in comparison to some other sports. In fact, once the broad outlines of a style are in place, equipment choices don't matter so much as it might seem, even though people love to talk about it at forums--just like other sports. Tenergy or Rasanter? Your level will be the same.

NextLevel · Feb 28, 2018

berndtjgmann said:
First off, Next Level, table tennis is not exclusively your sport. Since the establishment of the International Table Tennis Federation in 1926, organized national and international table tennis has been the ITTF’s sport.

Let me ask you this. What is it that you can claim or say about “your sport”, that is table tennis as presently played, that might persuade anyone unfamiliar with it to invest the time and the money to become sufficiently proficient at playing, given the bewildering myriads of choices of equipment a prospective novice might choose and have to contend with that would make “your sport” sufficiently atrtractive to take up?

Don't feed the trolls.

jawien · Feb 28, 2018

NextLevel said:
Accessibility is not the biggest reason, what the Chinese do is not magic. But if you believe it is, that is okay. It's not the kind of thing you get convinced of by just talking about it [...]

Of course the accessibility is not the biggest issue, it is one of the biggest as G_ZHANG explained.

But to show where I got the idea from, just listen to Dan's podcast with Simon Gauzy below.
GUYS this is interesting:

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/podcast/11994-tabletennisdaily-podcast-5-simon-gauzy/
15:50 - 17:10

So basically what Simon says, China provides its players with better quality rubbers. It is not my invention. And what is the clue here, they are not available for other (European) players.

Having said that, I just watched Dan's vlog from the WTC. When you watch ML or FZD practicing, you once again see how much different is their fh technique, so much athleticism involved.

@Btw, what's trolling about Berndtjgmann's last post? I think his question is quite interesting.

NextLevel · Feb 28, 2018

jawien said:
Of course the accessibility is not the biggest issue, it is one of the biggest as G_ZHANG explained.

But to show where I got the idea from, just listen to Dan's podcast with Simon Gauzy below.
GUYS this is interesting:

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/podcast/11994-tabletennisdaily-podcast-5-simon-gauzy/
15:50 - 17:10

So basically what Simon says, China provides its players with better rubbers, more spiny, special glue. It is not my invention. And they are not available for other (European) players.

Having said that, I just watched Dan's vlog from the WTC. When you watch ML or FZD practicing, you once again see how much different is their fh technique, so much athleticism involved.

@Btw, what's trolling about Berndtjgmann's last post? I think his question is quite interesting.

I know Berndtmann across a few forums. He simply believes that table tennis should have remained the way it was before sponge, gluing, fast rubbers and the Japanese revolution transformed it. If you look at the video Carl linked to, the caveman in it is actually based on him.

If you think his question is interesting go ahead and answer it. You will get a better insight into his agenda. Baal answered it perfectly. But watch what comes next.

jawien · Feb 28, 2018

NextLevel said:
I know Berndtmann across a few forums. He simply believes that table tennis should have remained the way it was before sponge, gluing, fast rubbers and the Japanese revolution transformed it. If you look at the video Carl linked to, the caveman in it is actually based on him.
If you think his question is interesting go ahead and answer it. You will get a better insight into his agenda. Baal answered it perfectly. But watch what comes next.

Well if I understand it correctly Berndtjgmann was simply asking what is so appealing of today's game as compared to the Victor Barna's epoch - quite innocent dilemma - seem to me. A matter of taste I would say ...

Sure ... maybe it is slightly off the topic ...

Badger · Feb 28, 2018

(Damn I’m good. Obscure and boilerplatish, but good, good.). Next up, coming to a station near you: Barna vs. Reisman, finals, 1949 English Open.[/QUOTE]

No. Please no.

NextLevel · Feb 28, 2018

jawien said:
Well if I understand it correctly Berndtjgmann was simply asking what is so appealing of today's game as compared to the Victor Barna's epoch - quite innocent dilemma - seem to me. A matter of taste I would say ...

Sure ... maybe it is slightly off the topic ...

The game is more diverse and has the old game as a subset. Sure it is a matter of taste. But not when you go on forums where fans of the new game dominate and start repeatedly mocking or insulting the modem game and its proponents. Like I said, he is free to find fellow company and discuss his ideals. But for some reason he is always looking for a larger audience that doesn't want to hear him.

jawien · Feb 28, 2018

NextLevel said:
The game is more diverse and has the old game as a subset. Sure it is a matter of taste. But not when you go on forums where fans of the new game dominate and start repeatedly mocking or insulting the modem game and its proponents. Like I said, he is free to find fellow company and discuss his ideals. But for some reason he is always looking for a larger audience that doesn't want to hear him.

NextLevel, I know "Mrs/Miss" Berndtjgmann only from this thread, and I rather find his comments very funny here, just as Carl and others did.

But - I'll repeat it once again - hardbat's topic is little off this thread's topic - I agree.

UpSideDownCarl · Feb 28, 2018

jawien said:
NextLevel, I know "Mrs/Miss" Berndtjgmann only from this thread, and I rather find his comments very funny here, just as Carl and others did.

But - I'll repeat it once again - hardbat's topic is little off this thread's topic - I agree.

jawien, you are actually not getting what is going on. Berndtjgmann was funny to me because of how outrageous and ridiculous he is, and because he is reveling in his silliness. But make no mistake, NextLevel is correct that he is looking for some naive modern TT player to blind side with nonsense.

I mean, think about the fact that this thread, which is about European pros, and why they don't use tacky rubbers....SO HOW did 1750s short pip pimple structure on hardbat even come up.

I just can't take berndtjgmann seriously because he is smart but so ridiculous. But if you don't realize he is trolling with that comment he made to NextLevel, then I don't know what to say to you. Question your judgment. But that is trolling and nothing else. There is no freakin' way berndtjgmann actually was asking innocently. Hahahaha.

Perhaps if English is your second language you miss some of the nuances of all of berndtjgmann's posts. But, wow....I actually can't believe that is possible. He is over the top blatant.

Again, to me, the ridiculous pomposity of it is entertaining. But not really because he means it that way.

zeio · Feb 28, 2018

Told ya. Oh, not to forget the death count, 1001st.

UpSideDownCarl · Feb 28, 2018

berndtjgmann said:
..... before the Black Plague of sponge forever besotted the once idyllic happy Land of Pong.....

Jawein, the black plague of sponge....

Do you really not get that with every word he is insulting modern TT and you for being foolish enough to like it instead of hardbat?

Now I may have been making fun of how ridiculous berndtjgmann is by saying he made me laugh. But NextLevel was correct in asserting that he was trying to make fun of all of us. And trying to get people to react to him saying, basically, modern TT sucks and you guys should all realize how much better hardbat was back in its glory days.

"....as graceful and deadly as Shakespearian swordplay...."

Did you somehow think that referred to something other than old timers playing hardbat?

European Players & Tacky Rubbers

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