Looking for help choosing new blade in off- region

says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
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If your biggest problem is pushing the ball into the net then tbh you ARE a beginner and the kind of player the Vega Intro is perfect for. It is not bouncy, it is not too soft, you can do every stroke with it and it's perfect for learning. And there's no way that something like Baracuda is better for you. It's super spin sensitive and you will have even more problems putting the ball over the net.
You seem to be too proud to admit that you have to learn a lot. There's nothing wrong with having an allround racket. I can guarantee you that, for your skills, a fast racket will lead to half-as*ed strokes which might win you a point now but don't improve you.
When you start playing in a league and get some wins (which is a lot harder than in training, especially against pips players and anti etc in lower leagues which you are not used to) then you can switch to something else.

Agree on everything said. So I am going to give a story. Sometimes stories help.

I have a friend. He was a pro tennis player. He is a decent amateur level at TT (USATT 2200). He uses a Stiga Allround Classic (fairly slow) with Yasaka Mark V (also not so fast).

He hits harder, faster and with more spin than most 2500 level semi-pro players. The reason he is only 2200 is he does not read or handle incoming spin, especially sidespin, all that well. But his attacking strokes are enough better than most 2500 players to overpower them even though he is using a very slow setup and they are using Butterfly ALC blades with Tenergy.

If your technique is good, the Butterfly Primorac with Vega Intro is MORE than fast enough. If you feel it is too slow, it is your technique that needs to improve.

Often, with those faster setups, they feel great when someone is hitting to you and you are allowed to rip the ball back. But in real match play, your opponent does not do that. If your opponent is half decent, he will limit your opportunities to play aggressive shots. And force you to give him opportunities to make aggressive shots.

So, just hitting topspin shots can make you like something that will cause you to loose more and deter your development.

Whereas, a slower setup forces you to do more of the work. Which is where mid-level players could start learning to add their body to their strokes for power. Because the slower setup forces you to improve your mechanics to get the speed, spin and power. Whereas, a faster setup does more of the work for you. So you are forced to cut down your stroke and compromise your stroke quality just to land the ball on the table.

So the faster blades end up giving you worse stroke mechanics and less potential for improvement. And the slower setups, by making you need to have better mechanics to get the power, actually encourage you to improve your technique much more.

If those 2500 level players had loop mechanics as good as my 2200 level tennis pro friend, they would be 2700 instead of 2500. And my tennis friend still can hit faster and get more spin with a Stiga Allround Classic and Mark V than they can with a Viscaria and T05. Let it sink in for a moment.

Perhaps you should get a Donic Appelgren Allplay with Mark V or Vega Intro!

Think about it. That actually would help you get better even more than the Primorac. And it has the same wood plies as the Primorac. [emoji2]. But yes, it is slower than the Primorac.


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Is there such thing as a European / Japan version of primorac to?... :/

Asking because i have seen light brown and darker grey on pictures. Which one is the real /better?

https://www.ttex.se/sv/stommar/375-butterfly-stomme-z-primorac-off-.html
http://www.paddlepalace.com/mobile/Primorac/productinfo/SBPRM/
http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/butterfly-primorac


light brown is EURO
and darker grey is JAP (+has serial numbers)

Both are real. Please go page 3 (I think) of this thread, You'll have some info.
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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I was just curious why he recommended it when reviewers say stuff like 'its for total beginners', etc.

I watch a lot of mid-level guys play. 95+% of them use equipment that is too fast for them. They are using T05 and Viscarias. And I watch them push balls into the net that should be easy. I watch them try to loop and loop long because their setup is too fast for them. I watch and 80-90% percent of the points they lose, they lose because of the setup. Not their technique. Not their point construction. But because they are using equipment they cannot handle.

These guys are decent. They are 1400-1900 level players. And the biggest difference between the 1900 level players and the 1600 level players is the number of mistakes is just less.

Now, players in that same skill level (1400-1900) are often the people who are making those comments like: “that rubber is for a total beginner.” And those same players would increase their level by realizing that rubber they said was for a beginner would actually HELP THEM IMPROVE!!!

So the thing I was not wanting to say and was implying with my simpler posts about how you are wasting your time and driving yourself crazy is that, those kind of reviews, here is the problem with them:

1) you don’t really know the level of the player making the review.
2) you don’t really know if that reviewer will have good enough technique to give a review that is worth paying attention to.
3) a lot of the time, online reviews, especially from a site like ttdb will really just be some random player saying they have a product and like it.
4) in those online reviews you will read, about the same product, it sucks, it’s too fast, it’s too slow. The random and contradictory content should tell you that it doesn’t help you understand much that is real about the product being reviewed.
5) most people are pretty bad at assessing their own equipment needs.

Add all this together and reading those kinds of comments IS YOU WASTING YOUR TIME.

You would be better trying the products for yourself. However, there is still that issue that most people are pretty bad at assessing what they actually need. And that something that feels great when the ball is being fed to you will often cause your level to drop when you are playing matches.


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says Spin and more spin.
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And yes, most Stiga blades are delicate, easy to break and have poor finishing quality.

Exceptions are blades like the Rosewood and the Ebenholz. Those are fairly durable. But they still have odd finishing quality issues.


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says Spin and more spin.
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Can’t think of why Karis M would be bad for you, but I’m nowhere near as experienced as other people here, so please wait for more input. For someone who likes the feel and hardness (around 43 esn, I think?), the main negatives seem to be: it’s not exciting or spectacular, and requires a lot of work to get high spin.

Karis M would be fine. It is just, it would be hard for him to find it from the same location he will get the blade. 2 shipping and handling charges and not being able to have the place assemble the blade, for some that is a deal breaker. May as well make things simple.


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Nevertheless, my Nittaku Latika handle is thinner than anything I've ever tried, but I love it! Possibly the most comfortable handle for me. I feel that Timo Boll ALC fl is too thick for me. I am 5'7'' tall, which is something like 171 cm. I don't think I have smaller hands than average people of my height, but if you like large handles or have large hands you should probably stick to Butterfly or European brands.
Thanks, so probably not for me then :)
Perhaps you should get a Donic Appelgren Allplay with Mark V or Vega Intro!

Think about it. That actually would help you get better even more than the Primorac. And it has the same wood plies as the Primorac. [emoji2]. But yes, it is slower than the Primorac.
Well, know I am a little confused ;) I will just try the Primoarc the next days.

Karis M would be fine. It is just, it would be hard for him to find it from the same location he will get the blade. 2 shipping and handling charges and not being able to have the place assemble the blade, for some that is a deal breaker. May as well make things simple.
It is not necessarily a deal breaker, because I think the shop I would buy the blade from doesn't have some rubber, maybe the Intro neither. Also I want to seal the blade first with some kind of wipe-on-poly, maybe Xiom i-Sure and I want to glue the rubbers myself, so I won't buy the bat preassembled anyway.
Assuming the shop doesn't have the Intro, is it really that different when I would get Vega Pro and/or Vega Euro instead?


Does anyone know where I can get the Karis M for the 'best' price in Europe?
Also I need a WBG, can you guys recommend one? It seems the Free Chack 2/Pro is good, but also 50% more expensive than other glues..
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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By sealing, you'll loose some of the feeling ... Primorac does not have splinters.

If you know what you are doing and use a thin layer of sealant, this statement is nonsense.

Since belugma is planning to use something that resembles Minwax Wipe-On Poly, he will get a nice thin layer.

Someone in the thread has already given instructions on how to mix poly sealant with mineral spirits to get the right thickness of sealant.


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If you know what you are doing and use a thin layer of sealant, this statement is nonsense.

Since belugma is planning to use something that resembles Minwax Wipe-On Poly, he will get a nice thin layer.

Someone in the thread has already given instructions on how to mix poly sealant with mineral spirits to get the right thickness of sealant.


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You sure it is necessary for Primorac ... ?
 
says Spin and more spin.
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You sure it is necessary for Primorac ... ?

Come on. What drugs are you on. Whether it is necessary is totally different than whether it will mess up the feeling of the blade.

No it’s not necessary. I’ve already said that. Some people like sealing their blades. Some people don’t.

Will it protect the blade? YES.

Will it make the blade last longer and play better for longer if you glue 6-12 times a year with Water Based Glue? MOST DEFINITELY.

But no, you don’t need it. But whether you need it or not has nothing to do with whether it will mess up the feeling of your blade.

If he adds a thin layer of sealant the blade will be fine, play well and last longer.

If he watched my video on how I seal my blades, he has a better idea than most about how to seal.


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Come on. What drugs are you on. Whether it is necessary is totally different than whether it will mess up the feeling of the blade. [...]

Ok ok ... I didn't read your previous posts. For some blades maybe it is a good idea.
Anyway don't want to argue (or mess with B's head), I just don't do it generally. You may.
 
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Thanks, so probably not for me then :)
Well, know I am a little confused ;) I will just try the Primoarc the next days.

It is not necessarily a deal breaker, because I think the shop I would buy the blade from doesn't have some rubber, maybe the Intro neither. Also I want to seal the blade first with some kind of wipe-on-poly, maybe Xiom i-Sure and I want to glue the rubbers myself, so I won't buy the bat preassembled anyway.
Assuming the shop doesn't have the Intro, is it really that different when I would get Vega Pro and/or Vega Euro instead?


Does anyone know where I can get the Karis M for the 'best' price in Europe?
Also I need a WBG, can you guys recommend one? It seems the Free Chack 2/Pro is good, but also 50% more expensive than other glues..
You seem already settled, so do not want to make your head spin by throwing more material names into the ring. Just those two cents:
1) Contra or Schölermicke offer "Testkoffer" where you can choose like 2 blades and 4 sponges and test them for 2 weeks (7,90 Euro or nothing if you buy afterwards)
2) Regarding the equal rubber question: Do you maybe have special style or technique? - for instance the guy who chose the first tensor rubbers for me put a softer Vega Euro on bh and harder faster rubber on fh. Turned out I like it just the opposite, really spinny, soft control on fh, fast smashes on bh. Just try out, what suites you.

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Come on. What drugs are you on. Whether it is necessary is totally different than whether it will mess up the feeling of the blade.

No it’s not necessary. I’ve already said that. Some people like sealing their blades. Some people don’t.

Will it protect the blade? YES.

Will it make the blade last longer and play better for longer if you glue 6-12 times a year with Water Based Glue? MOST DEFINITELY.

But no, you don’t need it. But whether you need it or not has nothing to do with whether it will mess up the feeling of your blade.

If he adds a thin layer of sealant the blade will be fine, play well and last longer.

If he watched my video on how I seal my blades, he has a better idea than most about how to seal.


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You got him angry now. ;)

@OP, and to answer one of your earlier questions, I think what is wrong with Vega Intro for you is the name. And, as it has been suggested, pride. As an (affordable) alternative, you can try Cornilleau Drive Spin. It's one the softer side, none too fancy and not even a tensor but, by the time you reach its extreme limits, you'll beat a fair half of all active players.
Heck, I don't even know why I am not playing with it, unless the answer is in my own post.
 
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Agree on everything said. So I am going to give a story. Sometimes stories help.

I have a friend. He was a pro tennis player. He is a decent amateur level at TT (USATT 2200). He uses a Stiga Allround Classic (fairly slow) with Yasaka Mark V (also not so fast).

He hits harder, faster and with more spin than most 2500 level semi-pro players. The reason he is only 2200 is he does not read or handle incoming spin, especially sidespin, all that well. But his attacking strokes are enough better than most 2500 players to overpower them even though he is using a very slow setup and they are using Butterfly ALC blades with Tenergy.

If your technique is good, the Butterfly Primorac with Vega Intro is MORE than fast enough. If you feel it is too slow, it is your technique that needs to improve.

Often, with those faster setups, they feel great when someone is hitting to you and you are allowed to rip the ball back. But in real match play, your opponent does not do that. If your opponent is half decent, he will limit your opportunities to play aggressive shots. And force you to give him opportunities to make aggressive shots.

So, just hitting topspin shots can make you like something that will cause you to loose more and deter your development.

Whereas, a slower setup forces you to do more of the work. Which is where mid-level players could start learning to add their body to their strokes for power. Because the slower setup forces you to improve your mechanics to get the speed, spin and power. Whereas, a faster setup does more of the work for you. So you are forced to cut down your stroke and compromise your stroke quality just to land the ball on the table.

So the faster blades end up giving you worse stroke mechanics and less potential for improvement. And the slower setups, by making you need to have better mechanics to get the power, actually encourage you to improve your technique much more.

If those 2500 level players had loop mechanics as good as my 2200 level tennis pro friend, they would be 2700 instead of 2500. And my tennis friend still can hit faster and get more spin with a Stiga Allround Classic and Mark V than they can with a Viscaria and T05. Let it sink in for a moment.

I am legit going to take a picture of this comment because this has so much truth and reality to it that I think I need to be reminded of this every now and then to stay grounded. Great post and great story
 
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By sealing, you'll loose some of the feeling ... Primorac does not have splinters.
I know I will probably loose a little feeling with sealing, but I have seen the Primoarc and for me the surface looks exactly like my Boll All+ which got splinters.

Since belugma is planning to use something that resembles Minwax Wipe-On Poly, he will get a nice thin layer.

Someone in the thread has already given instructions on how to mix poly sealant with mineral spirits to get the right thickness of sealant.
About that. I haven't exactly found something similiar to the wipe-on-poly. I only found this something named Clou wood sealant in glittering and satin finish and those things don't contain polyurethane. Other than that I found some Polyurethan-Alcyd-based varnish.
Does mineral spirits mean some kind of thinner? I need to look in the garage, maybe I find something.
Otherwise I would be at 12-15€ for self made wipe-on-poly, where as I am paying 8€ for the Xiom i-Sure. But I am a little unsure about the i-Sure because some people say it tempers more with the blades characteristics.


If Vega Intro isn't available, Vega Euro (DF?) and Vega Pro are fine, right?
Is Nittaku Finezip a good choice or rather Revolution No.3?
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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Ok ok ... I didn't read your previous posts. For some blades maybe it is a good idea.
Anyway don't want to argue (or mess with B's head), I just don't do it generally. You may.

I was letting it go. But it is really, sometimes, more like you didn't read the post you were responding to.
 
says Spin and more spin.
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belugma, for sealant you go to a hardware store. You buy a can of polyurethane sealant. You buy mineral spirits which is a solvent. YOU BUY THEM. You mix them in a 1 to 1 ratio. Mineral Spirits is a SOLVENT. So buy mixing the two, it makes the sealant thin enough to wipe on. once mixed, you seal your blade.

If not, BUY a sealant from a TT brand.

If you read my post, if you seal the blade with a thin layer, you will not lose feeling.

Also, don't buy Karis M from some site that looks fishy. Buy it from a reputable seller.
 
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