Brand New TT Club in Sacramento USA Forum Meetups?

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Not sure why t95mwp said the new club intended to crush the old one by deliberately setting it up close to it? There are many reasons why the new club's owner wanted it to be where it is now, for examples; good location, cheap rent, ease of commute, nearby (already existing) customers, etc. just purely from business point of view.
Maybe he knows info neither of us know. My attitude is to be open to other possibilities, especially when I don't know all the facts.

Regardless, close proximity is gunna have a negative effect on the Chinese lady's tt club.

Regardless or 200 meter or 20 km proximity, this club is so much bigger and better playing conditions it will have a negative effect on all local tt clubs... the market is too small for it to not affect everyone.

If the market was bigger, we could have 5 to 10 of these big clubs.

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I agree with your point here Der_Echte Mann,

The Sacramento valley did not have real clubs but always had good players. I guess none had courage to get in deep investment and opens club like in Bay Area. I am lucky that I have table at work and I play 4 days at my lunch time for 1 hour with few good playing people but I think is really bad business practice to open a club next to already existing one for no other reasons but to destroy. That is my 2 cents.
 
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I agree with your point here Der_Echte Mann,

The Sacramento valley did not have real clubs but always had good players. I guess none had courage to get in deep investment and opens club like in Bay Area. I am lucky that I have table at work and I play 4 days at my lunch time for 1 hour with few good playing people but I think is really bad business practice to open a club next to already existing one for no other reasons but to destroy. That is my 2 cent.

I am sorry I do not know you but I disagree with yours. My 2cents.
 
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I am in the sometimes uncomfortable position of being good friends with or on good terms with forumers on opposite sides of an issue. I do not have such a great background of being very socially successful or a social organizer.

I thought the very same thing as t95wmp when I heard rumors of the new club and I thought it was for slightly different reasons.

Sure, maybe the vacant huge leased building the new club owner bought was a real good deal and maybe it is coincidence the club is real close (like 200m) to the Chinese club, maybe not. I do not know all the info and I am not really dying to know.

Close to Chinese club or not, fact is this new club will affect current clubs. Fact - the current Sacramento TT market MIGHT support one large full time if there are other business lines (like the Chinese club and the new club). Fact - IF we can get more players playing in clubs, even socially, then Sacramento can support many large clubs.

Smash TT in Virginia was opened in DC area by a former top 100 English guy. He took over a failed Gold's gym leased space(first warning sign - if Gold's can't cut it, TT wont). The man invested in great tables and floors and had a decent number of players, but the rent and utilities and misc expenses of the lease were 2x than he made in membership and coaching. All of us in the club had a meeting and ALMOST made the club a co-op operation... if would have worked if we got another 50 members.

The owner folded the club at exactly one year, even though it was the venue for the Police/Fire World championships of TT in 2015. Four months later, he opened the club again sharing space with a volleyball training center. He ran a league round robin with ratings attracting mostly social players and beginning amature players. There were only 4 players around 1800 USATT, average player was 600-900 USATT, many lower. After 6 months, he averaged 24-30 players, now he averages around 40 and growing.

Sometimes the venue and getting a few "Cool" raw beginner players just to play for organized social fun is enough. He led internet "Meetup" nights for TT where people who really suck at TT would meet to play TT just to go out and do something different and liked the organization of the round robin, even if they sucked at TT.

This was an example of building a club and with some time, the players come.

It might be possible for this model to work over time in the new club too... and Sacramento could have many clubs down the road. The new owner ought to be prepared to shell out money for fixed expenses for some time, but it might come together, he has a loyal Vietnamese community and several other business models - Gameroom hangout - Sauna - Fitness center/weight room - wrestling - TT training and play, conference room, piano/guitar room - RESTAURANT.
 
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... this is called free market economy ... there is no point in complaining against a business that has a bigger and better facility and more resources to invest ... and the way you described .. it does not make sense that a bigger club would move in close to a much smaller facility because even if they get some of the business I don't think it would be enough to meet their running costs ... when somebody opens a business as big as Der Echte described they would have plenty of other things in their mind ... as simple as that ... instead of that why don't the people love the smaller club support it and work with the lady to make it unique , so that it can compete with the bigger club ... may be hire some coaches , may be organize a great league ... or get corporate involvement ... people were complaining against ICC when ICC came up with the biggest and the best facility of the bay area .. did it close down other businesses here , no it did not ... the businesses that had enthusiastic members and had good management remained open, some others closed down or changed ownership purely because there were not able to pay the rent ... did all the people move to ICC , no, they did not ... I rarely play at ICC , I play at a smaller facility even though the quality and the space there is probably 60% of that of ICC . Did I switch clubs before, yes I did . Not because I moved to a bigger and better club but because the management in that said club changed and the person who took over had ideas and ways of working that I was not a big fan of .. did he lose business .. yes he did lose a lot of loyal customers ...
 

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NDH,

To implement that the style you suggest, it is gunna require some serious culture adjustment. I am not too hopeful it will be better by the end of this month or this year.

Where you are at, people tend to be motivated by to possibility of individual or team championships or standings or promotion.

In USA, players are motivated by ratings point levels... to an irrational obsessive protective degree. If you demote a player or team, they do not come back.

The USA clubs that offer "Leagues" are basically a round robin that gives the players a chance to gain or lose points for FREE, meaning no expensive tourney fee. This is attractive to players... so much that here, players bar hop their way 3 to 4 times a week to play in the club's that run 2x a week in schools.

A few have a "season" and give awards, but the ratings point thing is central to everyone.

Players do not show up because of a league, but for points. Often, such a club is the only place to play tt locally.

Money is another thing that will attract players like flies to cow ding, but you gotta ask players to pay a proper proportionate amount up front... but players in USA do not yet like this idea to pay money this way... many want money without paying for it.

Yet... players will pay a tooth and pocket change (think $100 +) to play a tourney and gain official ratings points.

Somehow, we will find a way harness the greed and frugleness to get players to play in a real team league in our area and nation.

Not sure if Der_Echte will be the natural leader for this... but I do have opinions. However, we know the saying about having opinions...

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It is a very different culture indeed - A lot of the UK guys focus on their rating, but the local leagues add an element of competition which you don't get from an individual tournament.

But..... I guess it's very hard to change the mindset of people! Even in the UK we need a shuffle around, because the overall standard of many leagues is dropping!
 
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We missed you last night at round robin.:cool:

I am in the sometimes uncomfortable position of being good friends with or on good terms with forumers on opposite sides of an issue. I do not have such a great background of being very socially successful or a social organizer.

I thought the very same thing as t95wmp when I heard rumors of the new club and I thought it was for slightly different reasons.

Sure, maybe the vacant huge leased building the new club owner bought was a real good deal and maybe it is coincidence the club is real close (like 200m) to the Chinese club, maybe not. I do not know all the info and I am not really dying to know.

Close to Chinese club or not, fact is this new club will affect current clubs. Fact - the current Sacramento TT market MIGHT support one large full time if there are other business lines (like the Chinese club and the new club). Fact - IF we can get more players playing in clubs, even socially, then Sacramento can support many large clubs.

Smash TT in Virginia was opened in DC area by a former top 100 English guy. He took over a failed Gold's gym leased space(first warning sign - if Gold's can't cut it, TT wont). The man invested in great tables and floors and had a decent number of players, but the rent and utilities and misc expenses of the lease were 2x than he made in membership and coaching. All of us in the club had a meeting and ALMOST made the club a co-op operation... if would have worked if we got another 50 members.

The owner folded the club at exactly one year, even though it was the venue for the Police/Fire World championships of TT in 2015. Four months later, he opened the club again sharing space with a volleyball training center. He ran a league round robin with ratings attracting mostly social players and beginning amature players. There were only 4 players around 1800 USATT, average player was 600-900 USATT, many lower. After 6 months, he averaged 24-30 players, now he averages around 40 and growing.

Sometimes the venue and getting a few "Cool" raw beginner players just to play for organized social fun is enough. He led internet "Meetup" nights for TT where people who really suck at TT would meet to play TT just to go out and do something different and liked the organization of the round robin, even if they sucked at TT.

This was an example of building a club and with some time, the players come.

It might be possible for this model to work over time in the new club too... and Sacramento could have many clubs down the road. The new owner ought to be prepared to shell out money for fixed expenses for some time, but it might come together, he has a loyal Vietnamese community and several other business models - Gameroom hangout - Sauna - Fitness center/weight room - wrestling - TT training and play, conference room, piano/guitar room - RESTAURANT.
 
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The New Sacramento club is gunna kick off Spring with a Teams Tourney.

The Teams Tourney (Unsanctioned) at the new Sacramento club has THREE Divisions - U6500, U5500, U4500. 3-5 players on team. Top three players combined rating must be under 6500/5500/4500. First place $1200/$1000/$800. Entry Deadline is April 12. Tourney is April 14.

The tourney is on Omni Pong and they got the new club got their paypal account setup, so it is all ready to register for the team captain.

Here is the text from the Tourney Flyer...

2018 SITTA CUP TEAM TOURNAMENT (UNSANCTIONED)
When: April 14th 2018; DEADLINE APRIL 12TH 2018
Doors will be opens at 8:00am, play starts at 9:00am. Please check in at the front counter by 8:30am.
Where: SITTA Center. 5400 Power Inn Road Ste A, Sacramento, CA 95820
Tournament Equipment and Ball: Joola 3000 SC tables and White 40+ Nittaku 3 Stars Premium Balls

Event 1: Entry Fee: $150/Team; Team Rating: Under 4500/team; Minimum Team: 12 Max. Team allowed: 24; Maximum rating per player: 1800
1st place: $800/Team; 2nd place: $400/Team; 3rd place: $200/Team.
Each team will consist of three to five players, where the combined rating for the three players must be 4500 or less. Teams will be seeded into preliminary round robins of 4 to 5 teams. The top team from each Round Robin will advance into a single elimination championship based on how many teams entered.

Event 2: Entry Fee: $180/Team; Team Rating: Under 5500/Team, Minimum Team: 12 Max. Team allowed: 24; Maximum rating per player: 2200
1st place: $1000/Team; 2nd place: $500/Team; 3rd place: $250/Team
Each team will consist of three to five players, where the combined rating for the three players must be 5500 or less. Teams will be seeded into preliminary round robins of 4 to 5 teams. The top team from each Round Robin will advance into a single elimination championship based on how many teams entered. The gap between the highest and the lowest rating players in a team must not exceed 800.

Event 3: Entry Fee: $200/Team; Team Rating: Under 6500/Team; Minimum Team: 12 Max. Team allowed: 24
1st place: $1200/Team; 2nd place: $600/Team; 3rd place: $300/Team
Each team will consist of three to five players, where the combined rating for the three players must be 6500 or less. Teams will be seeded into preliminary round robins of 4 to 5 teams. The top team from each Round Robin will advance into a single elimination championship based on how many teams entered. The gap between the highest and the lowest rating players in a team must not exceed 800.
Rating: USATT RATING WILL BE USED; OTHERWISE CLUB RATING WILL BE USED.
Order of Play: Each Team match only allowed 3 players to play and no one can play more than two matches. When the team match is called, each team will report to the front counter where one team will be designated the A/B/C team and the other X/Y/Z. The first three matches are singles matches, in which each player from each team must play once, in any order chosen by each team. The first team to win three individual matches wins the team match.
TEAM 1 TEAM 2
A X
B Y
C Z
A Y
B X
*The organizer has the right to cancel the events if numbers of teams do not meet requirements
Visit our website at www.sittafit.com.Any questions call us at (916) 619-8900 or email us at [email protected]
 
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Tut mir leid, ich habe vergessen, dass Sie lieber einen neuen Club als den alten bevorzugen.

Sorry I forgot you prefer new club over old one. Tschüss.



Haha, Sacramento has missing me every Wednesday at RR ever since i got house and wife moved in... I play 1 to 2 times a week... 3 if real lucky.

Haven't played Wed RR since June 2017.

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I have also stayed out of the Sacramento Tourneys in Inkerdum because of lighting, if it gets better, I will go again.

I have stayed out of the Monday meetups for same reason, lighting too poor to play competitive. Now it looks like that HS is trying to get James out of there. The other meetups have similar light issues and are too far away, Auburn is even 10x worse for me, they all hate me over there, I tried it out two days in one week and tapped out.

I tried the Folsum meetup, concrete floor, lighting glaring and bouncing off everything that moves and doesn't move, loud noises, open big bay door with full sun in your face on one end... I was two and done for the same reasons there.

Wednesday is from wife, she kinda wants/needs me around the house after work more than once a week.

I got a lot of Sacramento hating on me already... and I've only been here a year. I guess it is gunna get stacked up higher by the time I leave the city.

I am a poor sort, because I try to play competitive and when the light conditions are not half right, I talk too loud and growl too much. More disciplined people have 10x better manners and restraint than I do, good on the vets here, bad on me.

Heck, even the new club owner is probably hating on me, I keep suggesting he thin out tables or do this or do this...
 
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So which day you guys are meeting at the new club and what time usually?



I have also stayed out of the Sacramento Tourneys in Inkerdum because of lighting, if it gets better, I will go again.

I have stayed out of the Monday meetups for same reason, lighting too poor to play competitive. Now it looks like that HS is trying to get James out of there. The other meetups have similar light issues and are too far away, Auburn is even 10x worse for me, they all hate me over there, I tried it out two days in one week and tapped out.

I tried the Folsum meetup, concrete floor, lighting glaring and bouncing off everything that moves and doesn't move, loud noises, open big bay door with full sun in your face on one end... I was two and done for the same reasons there.

Wednesday is from wife, she kinda wants/needs me around the house after work more than once a week.

I got a lot of Sacramento hating on me already... and I've only been here a year. I guess it is gunna get stacked up higher by the time I leave the city.

I am a poor sort, because I try to play competitive and when the light conditions are not half right, I talk too loud and growl too much. More disciplined people have 10x better manners and restraint than I do, good on the vets here, bad on me.

Heck, even the new club owner is probably hating on me, I keep suggesting he thin out tables or do this or do this...
 
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I am still OOT. I went to Swan to compete in a team event (an old friend asked me to temporarily joined his team when one of his players didn't show up) a few months ago and lost to an Indian player in 3 deuce game (possibly due to terrible lightning, too fast table, narrow space.) Still can't believe why people still want to play in such environment.

I have not played in the last 4 months due to too much traveling. But trust me, I always want to play with ttmonster and Der as you guys are great folks to hang around.
 
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t95wmp,

Most of the usual gang is mostly Thursdays and maybe some on Saturday. I am mostly Monday and Thursday.

I was lucky to play today, despite risking my marriage.

Nam Tran took a pic of him and MyTT forum member "in2spin" (a 2000ish playing level guy prolly rated lower) In2Spin came to the club at 12PM and unfortunately, I was with said wife getting commanded around in various places of shopping.

I did meet ttMonster and David M... Unfortunately, I was very off, as it is on these days where I hear it from the wife unit... ttMonster proclaimed he was a couple levels lower than his normal standard, yes, I saw some rust when he hit with me, but in doubles with me and with David M, new club owner oohed and awed at ttMonster and thought he was 2000.

Ditto for David M who flashed his pro-style game all day long with ease.

He also jumped out to a crushing 2-0 lad in our match, cry foul on Der_Echte for saying F, S, D and any other English 4-5 letter word one should not utter in public and kicking his bat from a rest on the ground to nearly take off ttMonster's head from a distance of 11 meters... I need to leave table tennis and tryout for Bayern Munich, I got the foot for it.

I DID flex the bicep and cheer for others on their fabulous FH hits for winners, especially a Vietnamese 50+ lady who got some serious FH fierce, she even flexed it a few times herself.

Korean style we did, going to several resturants that had lines backed up to Arizona, settled on a place and had a late dinner.

ttMonster drove up here fighting through a little traffic and got a taste of what Der_Echte does to play on his team in San Jose area. Hope he got back safe, I ended up doing 3-4 hours of impossible work inside the garage and have another 4-5 hours hard work Sunday.

ttMonster and Davd M got to meet Sergie and Joey, two 2000+ players for singles and doubles and got a lot of match play. Then James 2200+ and Serge (1700 California but will Biatch slap you on the table) showed up right before we left, we duly called the club to attention.
 
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tropical, the issue of Swan with light... is the tables, they reflect way too much of it and it is a problem, plus the walls are not very contrasting. Since pro-style coaching has taken over the best space in the club, the regular members are left with reduced play space and not the optimal conditions.

When Swan does do some comps, there are a LOT of players playing loudly and not so great space for all these people. It can get tough, in some tables, I play 1500 level, in some I play 2000+, it can have more odds than a box of chocolates.
 
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