Penhold index finger placement

Andyzhao123 · Mar 23, 2018

So I'm fairly new to table tennis; I've only been playing for a couple months now, playing Chinese penhold. I've gotten used to using the traditional penhold backhand, and I'm learning to use the reverse penhold backhand. My grip is fairly similar to Ma Lin's, but with the thumb a bit higher to support my forehand, as I'm a forehand dominant player.

I then realized that since my footwork is still developing, I should use my backhand more. The problem is, the traditional backhand feels too passive. I've seen pro players like Xu Xin, Wang Hao, and Xue Fei have their index finger wrapped around the handle like this:

I tried shadow practice with this grip, and it feels more comfortable. should I switch?

zeio · Mar 23, 2018

The gap between the FH rubber and handle is too close. For TBH, a gap of roughly 1-1.25 inches is left.

Also get some sandpaper and sand down the blade wings where the thumb and index finger rest on, and if necessary, round out the wedge of the handle where the tip of the index finger touches.

songdavid98 · Mar 24, 2018

In my opinion, I don't think your tip of the index finger should be on the handle. I think it should be between the rubber and the handle.

Here are two examples of me,

Here:

And here:
https://goo.gl/9ko6Ky

Andyzhao123 · Mar 24, 2018

Thanks for putting in the time to make this for me. But do you think that putting the index on the handle would help with RPB?

Andyzhao123 · Mar 24, 2018

Wang+Hao+World+Table+Tennis+Championships+9DtSYXiQnlFl.jpg

These penholders here have their index finger on the handle, and their backhands are all incredible.

songdavid98 · Mar 24, 2018

Andyzhao123 said:
View attachment 15873 View attachment 15874 View attachment 15875
These penholders here have their index finger on the handle, and their backhands are all incredible.

Maybe I was wrong about myself

It could be 50-50, but there's definitely overlap between the handle and blade.

Here's a close up of my grip

Here's an alternate of Xu Xin,

I think both ways will probably work, but I'll have to test out the effects of forehand and backhand later today

suds79 · Mar 24, 2018

I don't think I curl it very tight around the front of the paddle. I go with whatever is comfortable.

Sometimes probably more curled. Sometimes not curled all that much depending on however I'm angling the blade.

I probably shoot for this.

stock-photo-stockholm-sweden-nov-xu-xin-china-against-jonathan-groth-denmark-at-the-table-761364.jpg

I don't think forefinger placement has much to do with the RPB but that could be just me.

I often say that sometimes I wish I could learn the game again because TPB is so engraved into my head. To the OP, if you're only a couple of months in, trust me and do yourself a favor. Forget the TPB altogether. Or at least 90% of the time if not more. Get that RPB in your head. Rep after rep. I'd probably even go as far as to pushes with it also. A la Chen Bowen who does it quite often.

James Livesey · Mar 24, 2018

I think it depends a lot on the size of your hands and the diameter of the blade. for example, on smaller handles I come close to touching thumb to index and with my current blade (MEO), there's a gap. More important than spacing between fingers imo, is pressure. Put shortly, I put pressure on index finger for TBH, FH opening close to table, most service and attacking/blocking topspin RPB. I put pressure on the thumb for opening attack RPB and attacking/blocking topspin on the FH. It changes the angle of the blade slightly but more importantly changes your mentality and confidence in the shot.

Andyzhao123 · Mar 25, 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrrIDgT6TnY&t=1184s
In Wang Hao's Instructional at 5:23, Wang Hao says that during RPB, the index finger wraps around tighter. Does this mean that having the index finger on the handle is better than not if I feel more pressure can be put on the index finger this way?

Andyzhao123 · Mar 25, 2018

Please let me know what you find on the index finger placement.

ttmonster · Mar 25, 2018

@OldSchoolPenholder : you should be on this thread ... your tribe is discussing some important stuff here

James Livesey · Mar 25, 2018

Andyzhao123 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrrIDgT6TnY&t=1184s
In Wang Hao's Instructional at 5:23, Wang Hao says that during RPB, the index finger wraps around tighter. Does this mean that having the index finger on the handle is better than not if I feel more pressure can be put on the index finger this way?

This video is super informative. WH also states hes puts pressure on index for RPB, which started my experimentation with thumb and index pressure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOp5k2QuFrc starting 10:30, this video shows WH, ML and RSM's grips and what they are good for, however, it doesn't really explain what the benefits of ML's grip is....What I find is that it's very difficult to execute TPB with such a curved index finger whilst still keeping two finger tips on the back (chinese PH), which would explain why ML keeps his more open. I'd experiment to find what you find comfortable, but if you are committed to RPB on the BH, curving the index finger will make TPB harder so you build strong RPB habits, whilst also enabling greater stability and confidence.

hillwalker · Mar 26, 2018

I found, when I had my index finger straighter and more on the blade (with the blade also deeper into the notch between my index and middle fingers) that I had trouble closing the blade angle enough on my forehand, and hitting forehand topspin was harder, and I would raise my elbow a lot to compensate. Now, I have started curling my index finger over the end of the handle, and also setting my grip to have a more closed forehand blade angle from when I pick up my bat at the start. I feel this is working better for me.

With the backhand, the trouble with RPB is often that the blade angle is *too* closed. Forcing a more closed blade angle on the forehand, has a second benefit for me that it causes the RPB blade angle to be more open.

The disadvantage is that it is very awkward for me to close the blade angle with a TPB block, and if I try my thumb has to come completely off the bat and wave in the air! However I only try to push and recieve with TPB, and occasionally a defensive chop, any ball with topspin I will try to block or attack with RPB.

Andyzhao123 · Mar 26, 2018

I found the exact same thing when I tried the index finger on the handle.

Andyzhao123 · Mar 27, 2018

I'm trying the index on the handle, and I feel like it's more controllable and more powerful than having it on the blade. I feel my backhand being more consistent, and my forehand more powerful. Anyone else found the same thing?

hillwalker · Mar 27, 2018

I think ultimately, it will depend a bit on people's own hand size, finger length etc, and of course also the blade and its handle.

pujoki · Mar 27, 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO4ZO3-6eF4&t=1s

2550 USATT rated Bo Wen Chen gives some tips on penhold grip.

Andyzhao123 · Mar 27, 2018

I've seen this video a couple weeks ago. His index finger is not on the handle, unlike Wang Hao, Xue Fei, and Xu Xin. This means that both ways can work well, but I'm wondering if one way is better than the other.

suds79 · Mar 27, 2018

Andyzhao123 said:
I've seen this video a couple weeks ago. His index finger is not on the handle, unlike Wang Hao, Xue Fei, and Xu Xin. This means that both ways can work well, but I'm wondering if one way is better than the other.

No. Just got with whichever way feels more comfortable or natural to you.

I really wouldn't spend too much time wading through the minutiae of forefinger placement here. Much more pressing penhold topics you could be tackling and/or practicing IMO.

OldschoolPenholder · Apr 3, 2018

ttmonster said:
@OldSchoolPenholder : you should be on this thread ... your tribe is discussing some important stuff here

I was busy with work

I even missed pgpg's reminder post that he was coming to nyc 4/1

Penhold index finger placement

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