DHS vs. Tensor - long term investment

iamsan · Apr 2, 2018

Hi guys,

i'm playing TT since almost three years. Like almost any beginner i started with way too fast Equipment.

Nowadays i'm using an All+ blade with FH H3 39°, BH some 50° Tensor.
While i got used to H3, i was afraid to use BH Topspins cause of the risk going too long.
Last week i switched to H3Neo Backhand. I was astonished about the gained control. all my practice games were great.

Now my cons/hesistations:
FH: looping backspin is really hard, i need a full motion swing, right now 7/10 balls doing their job, speed is kinda low, spin right now is good enough for lower lvl players (they overshoot mostly), but i dont know if this will be enough for higher players someday. To solve this i consider a softer sponged H3 (like 3-50) or a mid-hard (47,5°) Tensor. My hesitation about last one is to lose my great services and recieves and losing the full swing motion. I just want to get more output for the current physical input. My physicals aren't bad, but they wont get top notch which is needed for the H3.

BH: i use my backhand mostly for recieves and drive shots. with the H3Neo i get alot of control. my shots are nearly spinless with low-moderate speed. i also consider to switch to a softer sponged chinese to get more speed into the shots or to a mid-hard tensor. out of question i definitely need to improve on my looping skills so my shots get more spin, while i dont think this will solve the speed problem.

to summarize my post: while the great control provided by chinese tacky rubber is great right now, i dont know this will be enough for higher level players. thinking in long term i need to decide if i continue the road with the chinese rubbers or get used to faster more risk more reward tensor rubbers.

appreciate all inputs.
iamsan

yogi_bear · Apr 2, 2018

The thing with tacky Chinese rubbers in the backhand is that when it comes to a bh to bh rally or punchblocking, the ball has a tendency to hit the net. This can be resolved by slightly brushing the ball but it is easier to just use a german or jap rubber. If you like hurricane 3 then get an alternative hard rubber in the backhand that is spinny but also gives you bounce. Mantra h 2.0mm, joola maxxx 500 2.0mm, xiom vega tour and many other rubbers.

talbon · Apr 2, 2018

What blade are you using?

Tensor rubber is not "more risk more reward". It is not faster either, it is less linear. You get decent speed without putting in the effort, so that at first glance you can get away with mistiming or approximate technique. Non-boosted Chinese tacky rubber is almost as fast once you're aiming for power, and in my experience the shots are often perceived as spinnier and equally powerful. Basically with H3N and similar rubber, what you get is what you put in (I'm talking in terms of stroke quality rather than physicality).

You can't really go wrong playing with either tacky or tensor rubbers. Both types are good with their own qualities. The only bad choice for a relative beginner is to go with an unforgiving tensor rubber, like tenergy 05 > 2mm, or most tensor rubbers in max thickness.

The way I read your post is that you're facing some obstacles towards progressing and your instinct is to turn to your equipment (like all of us). Instead, you'll want to improve your technique and your tactics even more. Identify what's having the biggest negative impact on your game and fix it.

On the topic of power: http://www.tabletenniscoaching.com/node/1927

Baal · Apr 2, 2018

Not many players thrive with tacky rubbers on the BH as Yogi said, for lots of reasons. Also, if a rubber forces body rotation on your FH, that is good. You need to develop that as a habit. Power will come in time.

Find something reasonable and stick with it. There is no equipment that will speed up your improvement. But constantly changing will slow you down.

iamsan · Apr 2, 2018

First off thanks for the replication!

yogi_bear
I already tried a 50° Tensor on my backhand. While the passive play was smooth, i had hesitation to play active in order to avoid the ball go out of the table. My main question was about getting used to it and go for a little softer Tensor Version or stick with the comfortable/safety option H3. I haven't issue with BH rallies nor blocking but the amout of speed (low-moderate) and spin (nearly no at all) while playing. I guess adding spin just require to work von it (like i said i was too hesitant for looping and always took the safety shot with my BH, thats why looping technique isnt good tho).
The main question in this regard is: can i develop a BH weapon with sticky hard (H3) or mid-hart (H3-50) chinese rubber or do i have to switch to a tensor.

talbon
thank you for the link. I agree with the linearity, thats why i love the chinese rubber, but i feel there's a power lose due to the stickiness. I get the feeling that i wont ever get the physical effort needed to play the H3 at it's optimum, i think even the chinese pro's boost it just to match it with the hardness of the other's pro's equipment. i cant believe them playing the hard version like i do. tbh i dont see that much of physical power improvement, thats why i consider a more softer chinese or european version (like H3-50, maybe H8?)

Baal
u'r right, equipment wont increase my development speed, but on the other hand i do have a imagination of my playstyle and if this doesnt match with the equipment, i will lose time to develop in the right direction.
right now i did find my basic on forehand with H3 and wants to convert into smth which is a bit easier to execut with an increase of the output given the current input.
on the backhand side i did try both philosophies and kinda need smth inbetween, already mentioned it at my replay to yogi_bear.

thanks for the input
iamsan

Lightzy · Apr 2, 2018

Well I find it very hard to understand what it is you're saying or asking and I'd suggest being more concise.

Regarding backhand tacky rubbers, not a good idea generally unless you know you can ALWAYS commit to an active attacking stroke with the backhand and being able to precisely judge the spin on the ball at all times.

Tacky of course isn't the problem, but rather that these tacky rubbers are almost always hard and very linear rubbers so without effort you get no speed. Hence, net balls.

yuri.saldon · Apr 2, 2018

I think you need a layer of seamoon in your h3 to be perfect for you.

In the backhand maybe something like skyline 3-60 will suit better.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

passifid · Apr 2, 2018

i used AK47, H3, TG3neo, H3neo, H3 39 degrees, 729 FX/Battle II/XT, H3-50 and globe 999 Blue. as well as Sriver G3neo, T05, Hiromi M and a million others
I will never use chinese rubbers again on my backhand as you loose a lot of easy shots. you must have better movement and cannot get caught out. for me an average player i like punch shots and passive blocking if i have to instead of always looping or driving everything.
Tacky rubber demander better technnique to execute a good shot (you CAN hit shots that you wont be able to with a tensor but for me not worth it)

Brs · Apr 3, 2018

You are using an all+ blade, so you shouldn't have a hard time controlling a more active rubber. Try a tenergy on your bh (2.1 sponge). I like t05, but maybe t80 is for you. Then sometimes in a practice flip it over and try it on your fh. You might like it. Most forum geniuses hate it, but it sure sounds to me like the answer to your question is tenergy.

Unless you want to boost the hurricane. That's an option too, but it's more work. Tenergy will make you give up on passive receives, but you won't need a professional athlete's physique to play. No free lunches, everything adds somewhere, takes away somewhere else.

NextLevel · Apr 3, 2018

I have used tacky rubbers on backhand (In fact I broke USATT 2000 with a tacky rubber on my backhand) and the main thing is your stroke size and the limitations that come with it. If you are like Ma Long able to get into position and play fuller strokes, tacky rubber is great because you can be positive all the time. If sometimes you want to make that shot while out of position, well that is where tacky rubber leaves you a little dissatisfied. Tacky rubber work best if you want to reloop every ball close to the table. Tenergy 05 has a dimension that is similar to this which is why some players use it for this style as well.

There is ultimately no single way. You just know your style and adapt. If I was healthy, I suspect I would use tacky rubbers on both sides of I played close to the table and something like Tenergy if I backed up a little.

langel · Apr 3, 2018

iamsan said:
Hi guys,
To solve this i consider a softer sponged H3 (like 3-50) or a mid-hard (47,5°) Tensor. My hesitation about last one is to lose my great services and recieves and losing the full swing motion. I just want to get more output for the current physical input. My physicals aren't bad, but they wont get top notch which is needed for the H3.

Give a try to Xiom Omega V Asia - its not tacky, its designed for both worlds and you'll not loose your great services and full swing, giving much more power when needed.

iamsan · Apr 3, 2018

NextLevel said:
I have used tacky rubbers on backhand (In fact I broke USATT 2000 with a tacky rubber on my backhand) and the main thing is your stroke size and the limitations that come with it. If you are like Ma Long able to get into position and play fuller strokes, tacky rubber is great because you can be positive all the time. If sometimes you want to make that shot while out of position, well that is where tacky rubber leaves you a little dissatisfied. Tacky rubber work best if you want to reloop every ball close to the table. Tenergy 05 has a dimension that is similar to this which is why some players use it for this style as well.

There is ultimately no single way. You just know your style and adapt. If I was healthy, I suspect I would use tacky rubbers on both sides of I played close to the table and something like Tenergy if I backed up a little.

thanks for that share.
on backhand i dont have any special playstyle yet. if the ball comes short i do push (while flipping was too hard with the 50° Tensor, i might give it another try with the H3Neo or H3-50) and if the ball comes long i loopdrive safetly (with low speed and spin). tbh it's already hard to get in position for FH loop, right now i can't imagine to invest this level of energy for BH loop with full motion stroke aswell. besides working on the technique to get more spin out of my shots i'm gonna try a softer version of H3 (ordered 3-50 and 3-60) and a softer Tensor to find out which is more satisfied.

what's about my forehand? right now i like the playstyle of H3, but it's hard to execute and the output is kinda unsatisfied at my level.

iamsan · Apr 6, 2018

hi guys, i wanted to give un update about my decision.

since last training session i switched to the tensor (R50) on both sides. I must say my play feels alot smoother and i really enjoy the less demanding play, in fact i got alot safer with the beginning stroke TS on US... while this was kind of random with the H3 without the feel why it was going wrong, now it's way more safer. i did even some loopkills in a row on underspin for fun, this was impossible with the chinese's ones.
my backhand is going to improve aswell. its less forgiving if ur stroke isnt properly or false unlike the H3, where u got real big control due to the sticky sheet... but if u hit right the quality of the balls are satisfying.

the biggest reason for the switch was the dust which overrides the stickyness real quick... i cant even do a full match with atleast 3 sets.

so what's my future goals... i dont think i can get to the full potential of the R50 right now.... with a lot of preperation i could loopkill balls with my fh, the occasion's in a match game will be rare for this... so on fh side i wanna improve the consistency of the opening and following loop... on backhand side i do have some good approaches, i need to get good stroke movements there first...

just a mention on the s&r side: i did some test games. my serves weren't that good as before. while i'd get ALOT of direct points just by my serves in league games with the H3, now they are just undangerous. on the recieve side i kinda feel more comfortable now... while the tackyness helped me to get the recieve real short, more often the ball was too short. my short game isnt dangerous anymore, but i kinda got some more control feeling back.

so far. thanks for all the input. really appreciate that.
iamsan

DHS vs. Tensor - long term investment

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