how to deal with Tomahawk service

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Folks !! I'm progressing a lot, now what is holding me from virtually winning every player from my level and probably the level just above is tomahawk service return. My service return is basically a chiuquita on short side-spin serves,spinny push for pure under spin , and I attack directly every long serve on both wings (more on forehand though). The problem with tomahawk serve is that neither the blade angle nor the ball way of mouvement give me a clue, so I tend to passively return it which results in a direct error most of the time, today I played a guy one level above me and he is using an anti-top , which is something I absolutely love playing against so I do my thing and I win most of the points, he just serves Tomahawk with under/top spin variations and win most of his points. I eventually lost 3 sets with two points difference and I won one with the same difference. I think solving this problem will just give me more wins easily. Any insights are welcome.
 
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If you know that passively returning it is a problem, then stop doing that. Looping serves (if possible) is a much better option.

You can loop it really slow and high if you want (since your opponent is playing anti, it shouldn't be that big of an issue).

However, in the end, you have to learn to how read the contact of the serve better. What direction was his racket moving in? Where is he contacting the ball?
 
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I use tomahawk serves a lot when my opponent allows me to. The worst thing g you can do is to be passive as you let the spin do its work. Generally it will be a combination of side and topsoil or occasionally bottom spin. You should be looking to drive or loop your return. Against such returns I need to be very precise with my serves and use it sparingly. Try and practise in training. In matches it may be better to lose a few points initially whilst getting the length of your returns
 
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If you know that passively returning it is a problem, then stop doing that. Looping serves (if possible) is a much better option.

You can loop it really slow and high if you want (since your opponent is playing anti, it shouldn't be that big of an issue).

However, in the end, you have to learn to how read the contact of the serve better. What direction was his racket moving in? Where is he contacting the ball?


Thanks but you know looping top spin serves will just make the ball go outside, It is just more clear for me on other serves where he is contacting the ball , blade direction etc ... not the tomahawk though
 
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You've got to practice with people who can do that kind of tomahawk serve. Or jab, reverse pendulum and BH serves. Ask them to feed you serves (make it to the point, do you struggle with short or long serves, or both?) and try everything you can think of (touch the ball at different points, or receive with your bat flat/vertical to see what spin is on the serve). Take note of what works and keep doing it for a while.

You are not going to instantly turn this return into a strength of yours, so keep practicing with an intent over several sessions.

In games you don't have to read and return it perfectly at first. You just need to get into the rally. Find a way to get the ball back on the other side. For instance, take the ball late to read the spin off the trajectory, bounce or mark on the ball. Open with a slow high loop, or roll it back, push, do the strawberry return, whatever works for you. The opponent might kill the 3rd ball, but it's good for the mind/mental to think of it as a different issue than getting past the 1st ball.

Your goal is to get into the open rally and make the opponent fight for their points. You don't need to do wonders to prevent the 3rd ball kill. Find a return that makes the opponent feel awkward and get in position to counter. It doesn't always take much to make somebody give up on a serve or to pressure them into trying too hard, making it more obvious for you.

The last resort is to slam it past them :D The margin of error is often not as ridiculous as you'd think. If it works, you might not see that serve again. If it doesn't, you might scare them off! Plus the reason for missing a return can be lack of commitment & passiveness. If you second guess your judgement call you're gonna make a half-hearted receive and the incoming spin will get you.
 
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Thanks but you know looping top spin serves will just make the ball go outside, It is just more clear for me on other serves where he is contacting the ball , blade direction etc ... not the tomahawk though

You don't know how to loop a top spin serve? Go learn. Looping topspin is how you reach higher and higher levels. Without that skill, you are limiting yourself to lower level play.

Either way, if you can't read the serve, you have two options. You can gamble and try to attack the serve (with a loop/flip).

Or you can just accept it, and just prepare to defend. Do your best to get it on the table and place it to a wide angle (which will limit where your opponent can attack you)
 
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What I do:

Tomahawk serve into backhand --> Loop / flick with backhand
Tomahawk serve into forehand --> loop with forehand if it is long. if it is half-long / short this is one of the few serves that I struggle against. Somehow I am too stupid to return it decent enough with my forehand, therefore I always try to step around and flick with my backhand. That works quite often but is still very risky for me.

With a loop / flick I don't mean a winner return, it does not have to be at full speed (and it should not be imo). Rather return with good amount of topsin and good positioning.
 
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You've got to practice with people who can do that kind of tomahawk serve. Or jab, reverse pendulum and BH serves. Ask them to feed you serves (make it to the point, do you struggle with short or long serves, or both?) and try everything you can think of (touch the ball at different points, or receive with your bat flat/vertical to see what spin is on the serve). Take note of what works and keep doing it for a while.

You are not going to instantly turn this return into a strength of yours, so keep practicing with an intent over several sessions.

In games you don't have to read and return it perfectly at first. You just need to get into the rally. Find a way to get the ball back on the other side. For instance, take the ball late to read the spin off the trajectory, bounce or mark on the ball. Open with a slow high loop, or roll it back, push, do the strawberry return, whatever works for you. The opponent might kill the 3rd ball, but it's good for the mind/mental to think of it as a different issue than getting past the 1st ball.

Your goal is to get into the open rally and make the opponent fight for their points. You don't need to do wonders to prevent the 3rd ball kill. Find a return that makes the opponent feel awkward and get in position to counter. It doesn't always take much to make somebody give up on a serve or to pressure them into trying too hard, making it more obvious for you.

The last resort is to slam it past them :D The margin of error is often not as ridiculous as you'd think. If it works, you might not see that serve again. If it doesn't, you might scare them off! Plus the reason for missing a return can be lack of commitment & passiveness. If you second guess your judgement call you're gonna make a half-hearted receive and the incoming spin will get you.

This makes sense, thanks
 
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This was just an example of today match, anti-top is not an issue for me at all.

Ok, I misunderstood your original post then. The FH tomahawk serve is not that different from the BH pendulum serve, and the resulting ball trajectories are quite similar. The topspin version will accelerate towards you and the underspin version will slow down. You don't have to loop kill the top spin version, just flick it varying placement (down the line, into the opponent's crossover point, cross court), and prepare for the return.
 
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Serving to me is one of the most useful things my coach does for me (that and yelling at me to take the ball sooner - LOL). I still don't know if I consciously read the motion of his bat but after lots of practice I seem to pick the right kind of return as he varies the spin on his serves. I say this in agreement with the poster who said get someone to practice serving to you.
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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Yep. One piece of info for a serve with the sidespin that a Tomahawk, hook, punch, reverse pendulum or BH serve have, if it is a righty serving that spin to another righty's FH, then, it makes it much easier to control that spin on the FH wing, if you contact the inside of the ball where the spin has the least effect.

Mark Croitoroo showed me how to do any number of things with those serves. But some of the returns are counterintuitive. Like how you would push a topspin tomahawk short would be to contact the inside of the ball with your racket just about vertical and gently brush down till your racket bumps into the table. For heavy backspin you would have to contact the inside of the ball with the racket quite open. With either serve, he showed me you could drop the ball nice and short if you read the spin correctly and touched the ball just so.

He also showed me ways of just punching the ball with the racket at the appropriate angle and doing these nasty flip shots that reminded me of how a penholder might return one of those serves. They were pretty evil returns.

There were swipe strokes from under the ball that did cool things to the spin.

And he also showed me how to loop all of those while contacting the inside of the ball so that you can control the spin more easily.

That being said, I am still more comfortable using my BH to return that sidespin. But practicing against someone who has a good serve like that really is helpful. Or, even better, practicing returning a lefty pendulum serve from a lefty who has good serves.

Good luck.
 
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Although yu will miss a lot at first, try practicing a step to the ball, get the bat there, and with a very LIGHT grip, go into the ball a little and very short small stab very loose. Do this if you want dead or underspin return.

You will get a habit of getting to the ball.... this enables you to SEE THE BALL BETTER, then make the unconscious adjustments. BEING LOOSE in grip and arm muscles is essential as well. Try it out for a few months and see where it goes.
 
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If the ball is long, loop it slowly to the middle. It’s the safest approach. Even if there is sidespin it should be on the table, if it’s no spin it shouldn’t go out. Try to keep it low. A good player will attack it but it’s better than a receive miss if you couldn’t read the ball

If the ball is short, then it’s better to push it long actively. If you try to receive short and it was a no spin or topspin serve the ball will pop up for an easy kill. The push should be attacked by a good player but i think it’s safer and you have time to prepare for the next shot

Anyway that’s what I try to do
 
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Your problem is that you are not focused on the contact you are focused on the follow through. The tomahawk serve is easy to read if you look at the contact. The problem is when you look at the follow through and there the racket always seems to be coming down and forward so you keep reading backspin and underestimate sidespin and topspin when present. If you look at the contact you can see whether the side or top or bottom of the ball is being contacted. I used to have this problem so I know what you are going through. Just look at the contact don't try to guess it and don't be so lazy that you only look at the follow through.
 
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There was a guy who uses tacky rubber and does tomahawk with extreme powerful top-side spin which always goes crosscourt and long.

I lost a match while trying topspin or block against this strong serve.

On the next match I tried an unorthodox technique. I tried to pull my racket backwards the same way the spin direction during contact. Basically a dropshot, but against long ball. It worked and I won 3-0.

Reading Spin;
Other than against side-topspin, I am having less issue with reading spin when I look server's wrist snap. If opponent is faking, I remind that the quick wrist snap is the serve, the rest motions are the ones that I shouldn't take serious.

Transition point;
If the serve comes to your transition point, try to practice to return them with FH or BH by small step aside.

PS: You cannot truly improve against unorthodox serves, games, technique, anti/pimple players unless you play against them.


Sent from Tapatalk
 
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Guys, I'm looking for unified axe to deal with wood with minimal weight. I found some interesting review (link deleted), could someone confirm any models from here represented, who uses any? Also your tips and advices about "easiest to hold" axe would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance!

Tomahawk serve: looking for an axe? 1+1 = ROBOT or slime.

I am leaving stickyball up for a few hours to see if he answers my PM or this. But he will soon get deleted unless he removes the links from all his posts.
 
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