I qualified for College Nationals, help

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As some of you know, I qualified for NCTTA nationals a month ago, and the NCTTA National Championships start on Friday.

Since there isn't much time left, I don't think I can make drastic changes and improvements, but I hope that the community here can give me some advice that can tweak and adjust my game for the better.

I have a bunch of questions floating in my mind that I can't all think of right now, so I'll probably come back to this thread throughout the week.

****************

Some information about myself to give you some perspective:
I am a lefty penhold looper. About 2300 USATT in level on an average-good day. I pretty much always do some kind of pendulum serve, which I vary in spin and placement. My points consist of serve & attack, baiting weak loops to counterloop, and a back-up counterloop in case I don't get to attack first. I back off the table a lot since I'm usually expecting fast returns (so this is a good and bad thing that you guys can comment on).
Lately, I've been getting better at backhand blocking, but it is still not as good as I'd like it to be.

****************

On to the questions:

Usually, on my opponent's serve, if it is short, I will generally try to push short to their forehand. However, I am not perfect, and I won't perfectly read the serve every time (especially against players with a better serve).

Not taking into account severe, super-high popups (just higher-than-normal short pushes), I have two questions on this topic:

1. Do you guys think it is easier/better to prepare for no-spin/sidespin/topspin and then see if there is underspin to push
or is it easier/better to prepare for underspin and then look for no-spin/sidespin/topspin to flip?
I've noticed that with the first, I tend to hit more serves into the net, but with the second, I get more popups. So, the second is more passive (but I don't lose the point right away), but with the first, I can try to threaten my opponent with a flip and make them start serving underspin (but I risk losing the point right away). What are your thoughts? Maybe start out with the first mindset and then adjust from there? Or maybe using the active mindset is better for the long-term?

2. Which is a worse popup: one that goes down-the-line towards the forehand, or one that goes cross-court towards the backhand?
The one that goes down-the-line has a higher chance of becoming long (since down-the-line is shorter distance), but the angles of a strong attack are limited (they will cross-court to my backhand). The popup that goes cross court has two outcomes: if my opponent uses their forehand, they can probably hit anywhere on the table. If they use their backhand, they will probably go cross-court to my forehand. If I can get anticipate where they will hit, I have a chance to get back in the point with a counterattack. As of right now, I usually go for down-the-line short pushes

3. For experienced players and penholders especially (but it's fine if you are shakehand), if you guys forehand flip a short sidespin serve, do you use a soft wrist, or a tight wrist? How much wrist do you use? Do you use your wrist to get it over the net? Do you use it to add power? Do you mostly use your wrist or forearm to gain racket speed? How much brush do you add, if any?
If it's high, I don't have much of a problem, but for the low ones, I'm not that satisfied with the quality and consistency that I have. Maybe, it's because I don't have the confidence to use more racket speed, or I don't have enough spin. I'll try to take a video today of some forehand flips.
 
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Another question: is there a trick to getting used to swinging earlier? I guess my question stems from the ball hitting the edge of my racket a lot. With slower balls, I don't have a problem. But if the ball has more topspin than I thought, or if it's higher than I thought, it hits the edge of my racket. I have experimented and mitigated the problem somewhat by backing up and adjusting my swing to the ball's height, but I feel like there should be another way. My theory was that my backswing is big, and I don't get enough time to get to the ball, causing me to hit the edge of my racket.

The common answer is to open my racket, but that doesn't made sense to me, since this happen when I encounter balls with more topspin (so opening my racket will make me go out). But I now I'm thinking that opening my racket hitting it more like a drive could work?
 
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Great post! I think the answer to the first question (prepare to flip and adjust for push or vice versa) depends on the player, but it seems like something that can improve significantly with even a few days of drilling. If I have to choose, I'll vote for the more aggressive and active approach (prepare to flip) because I think it's got more upside and seems more in keeping with your game as described.
 
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1) It is better to always get your hand down in preparation for a loop and make corrections later. I'm understanding that you're talking about serve receive right?
So prepare for the fast serve with some distance from the table and a hand down, or at least around table height. Stepping in to the table on a short serve is a lot faster than trying to step back with a fast serve coming at you.

2) A long popup is better than an on-table popup. Much, much better. Much harder to attack and if he does manage to smash it the smash will be a lot slower because the ball has to move through more air. A short popup to the back-hand is better than to the forehand because it's harder to cover the distance to the table and play that backhand in case they're far and many good players will not consider smashing with the backhand so you got more time to prepare.

But with serves this isn't very practical in any case. If you're lobbing then try to lob long, but in serve receives, usually your pop-up will either go out of the table (since you already misread the spin) or be short and easily punished.


3) Firm wrist for speed and quality spin, to let the rubber really capture the ball and for the motion to be fluid. Loose wrist comes with the danger of the motion not being 100% fluid and so not capturing the ball properly on flicks. Though flicking with a looser wrist can be easier to do sometimes, it is a lot more risky and will also not give quality spin/speed.

That said, fluid motion is easier with penhold so I can't answer definitively.
 
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Another question: is there a trick to getting used to swinging earlier? I guess my question stems from the ball hitting the edge of my racket a lot. With slower balls, I don't have a problem. But if the ball has more topspin than I thought, or if it's higher than I thought, it hits the edge of my racket. I have experimented and mitigated the problem somewhat by backing up and adjusting my swing to the ball's height, but I feel like there should be another way. My theory was that my backswing is big, and I don't get enough time to get to the ball, causing me to hit the edge of my racket.

The common answer is to open my racket, but that doesn't made sense to me, since this happen when I encounter balls with more topspin (so opening my racket will make me go out). But I now I'm thinking that opening my racket hitting it more like a drive could work?

My solution is to come round the side of the ball with a more open racket and close over it. There may be other options but this has been the most reliable way of countering for me.

You are a much better player than I am and just about anyone here who will casually answer your question so PM a few people to get them to come and chime in.
 
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My 'lower level' advice would be to acknowledge that pretty much no technique quick fix is possible in the next 5 days, so your best bet is to focus on tactical and mental aspects of the game.

See what works and does not in the first game, especially on the serve and receive. See where you opponent might have a 'hole', although at your level it would be quite unlikely you are going to run into an obvious weakness. Use your teammates as coaches in-between games, sometimes they'll be able to spot things that are not obvious to you.

I'd focus on staying calm and positive (I'm assuming here that you are not at your best when playing angry), I know, easier said than done, but still works, at least for me.
 
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As some of you know, I qualified for NCTTA nationals a month ago, and the NCTTA National Championships start on Friday.
Good luck to you and have fun there!

I would "let go" a bit on the technical side. It's no good to think about your technique during a game, why not get into the right state of mind now? Get good rest, have (serious but) relaxed practice and games. Focus on the strengths and strategies that earn you the most points.

Since there isn't much time left, I don't think I can make drastic changes and improvements [...]
Agreed. I wouldn't worry about the "proper" theoretical way to do this or that. Keep it for after the event. Instead make sure you know what you're good at and how you can put it into play against different styles.

It's quite natural but also a bad idea in a match against a good opponent, under pressure, to try to put into play that ex-weakness-you've-been-working-on. If you start missing and doubting it can affect your whole game. If instead you play to your strengths as much as possible, you will not put as much pressure on your technique, and lo and behold, you will often succeed with the "new" shot whenever you instinctively use it.

Do you guys think it is easier/better to prepare for no-spin/sidespin/topspin and then see if there is underspin to push
or is it easier/better to prepare for underspin and then look for no-spin/sidespin/topspin to flip?
Overthinking, imo. The question is: what are you good at? what serves has the opponent shown so far?

If you are good at pushing short, then early on it makes sense to push short. There is a higher chance for you to succeed. You don't know yet what the opponent likes or hates, but at least you're forcing them to win the point rather than giving it away. You could take the first game purely off of your serve and a couple of mistakes from the opponent, before they start to consistently punish you for giving them balls that they like.

If they prove to you that you have to do a shot you're less comfortable with for you to win, then commit to doing it (play your weakness to their weakness). But fortunately by then you know better what is coming.

Or maybe using the active mindset is better for the long-term?
Frankly, it doesn't matter. You'll cross that bridge when/if you come to it.

To me it's a matter of style and match-up. You have to flip if a player seems to be all over ANY push that you make. Inversely, it's best to push if they trash your flips. But often it's more about some variation around a stroke (like, pace/spin vs. floaty).

2. Which is a worse popup: one that goes down-the-line towards the forehand, or one that goes cross-court towards the backhand?
The one that goes down-the-line has a higher chance of becoming long (since down-the-line is shorter distance), but the angles of a strong attack are limited (they will cross-court to my backhand). The popup that goes cross court has two outcomes: if my opponent uses their forehand, they can probably hit anywhere on the table. If they use their backhand, they will probably go cross-court to my forehand. If I can get anticipate where they will hit, I have a chance to get back in the point with a counterattack. As of right now, I usually go for down-the-line short pushes
Again it is all about what you can do and what they don't like.

As a lefty, if a righty serves pendulum to you and you touch short to their FH by contacting the ball more on the right side, you shouldn't miss too badly. Maybe the short BH is not as easy. But unless they have a balanced game, I would target their weaker side or find their middle. It is true that they could be a bit late on the short FH pop-up, if you don't play there all the time, and they could miss or be predictable.

ps. If the serve is mostly sidespin, you have to contact the bottom to touch short. If you think it will pop up or go long, you can use the momentum instead to dig fast and long. Also, if you're not sure about the spin, assume it is the same spin as the first time. Let the opponent prove that they can disguise the change.

if you guys forehand flip a short sidespin serve, do you use a soft wrist, or a tight wrist? How much wrist do you use? Do you use your wrist to get it over the net? Do you use it to add power? Do you mostly use your wrist or forearm to gain racket speed? How much brush do you add, if any?
If it's high, I don't have much of a problem, but for the low ones, I'm not that satisfied with the quality and consistency that I have. Maybe, it's because I don't have the confidence to use more racket speed, or I don't have enough spin. I'll try to take a video today of some forehand flips.
I've seen very good players who use a lot of wrist and others who don't. To each their own. Most of us mortals don't have a devastating flip, so it is more about picking the right shot for the right ball, with good placement and fast hands to disguise the direction.

I generally don't use the wrist on my FH flip. Since you are a lefty: for a righty's pendulum side-top, you can hit straight through the ball with your FH. Take the ball on the left side (to use the topspin), aim for the net and their BH. Same for a short serve with light backspin (probably easier if reverse-pendulum for you), open the bat angle, aim a bit above the net, lock the wrist, hit straight through it. The ball will come fast to their elbow or body with no spin, it is difficult to pull a reflex block. You can do the same with your BH of course (maybe TPB as a PH?)

Imo the trick is to get your weight behind the stroke, especially without wrist. Otherwise the ball hits the net or goes long.

If I'm a bit wary of the amount of spin, or just for variation, I'll add wrist and go slower. If the serve is short top and I can't do better, I'll guide it back (closed bat, no wrist), and get ready for the counter. If I have good feel, I can go with an aggressive, wristy BH flip (but I'm not FZD and usually it just means the opponent is predictable or doesn't serve that well). Otherwise I brush the ball with fast arm motion, very little wrist (with proper contact and timing the amount of spin is deceptive); or give it a push/hit it from behind (old style flip).
 
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1) It is better to always get your hand down in preparation for a loop and make corrections later. I'm understanding that you're talking about serve receive right?
So prepare for the fast serve with some distance from the table and a hand down, or at least around table height. Stepping in to the table on a short serve is a lot faster than trying to step back with a fast serve coming at you.

2) A long popup is better than an on-table popup. Much, much better. Much harder to attack and if he does manage to smash it the smash will be a lot slower because the ball has to move through more air. A short popup to the back-hand is better than to the forehand because it's harder to cover the distance to the table and play that backhand in case they're far and many good players will not consider smashing with the backhand so you got more time to prepare.

But with serves this isn't very practical in any case. If you're lobbing then try to lob long, but in serve receives, usually your pop-up will either go out of the table (since you already misread the spin) or be short and easily punished.


3) Firm wrist for speed and quality spin, to let the rubber really capture the ball and for the motion to be fluid. Loose wrist comes with the danger of the motion not being 100% fluid and so not capturing the ball properly on flicks. Though flicking with a looser wrist can be easier to do sometimes, it is a lot more risky and will also not give quality spin/speed.

That said, fluid motion is easier with penhold so I can't answer definitively.

1) I was talking about short serves, but I guess your logic still holds true. It is much easier to start lower. I think I'll stick to this, thanks!
 
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My solution is to come round the side of the ball with a more open racket and close over it. There may be other options but this has been the most reliable way of countering for me.

You are a much better player than I am and just about anyone here who will casually answer your question so PM a few people to get them to come and chime in.

I guess the my thread has two goals:

1. I honestly want to hear what other people think. Everybody has their own viewpoints that I am interested in. I don't want to think that my thinking is infallible just because I am more skilled, so I want to hear out everybody's thoughts in case there is a hole in my theories. On multiple occasions, I've had other lower level players say something that triggers an epiphany in me.

2. I want to show a certain user how to properly ask the community questions and stick to one thread, hence the title of the thread.

I'll keep your advice in mind. I think it might work, but I'll have to try it out next time I practice
 
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As for forehand flipping, I had no issue today. I followed the advice of a older penholder named Santos, and it pretty much worked. Although there's no way I'd dare to flip like this in a real game, which may be a problem. I guess I'll have to start doing it in practice matches to gain the confidence to flip at that speed.

 
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1) I was talking about short serves, but I guess your logic still holds true. It is much easier to start lower. I think I'll stick to this, thanks!

Ah, I see. Well, you did ask what better to prepare for, but how can you know you'll be getting a short serve to prepare for?
So I just ignored that part about the short serve in my answer.

Eliminating the need for a backswing (by pre-empting it to some extent) is generally a good idea. Even more so for beginners, because otherwise they tend to push at balls with a flat racket rather than to swing the racket upwards, so they never learn to counter-topspin.

Also if you think your back-swing for forehand topspin is exaggerated, well, it might be. That's also something to check. If it goes behind your knee then most chances it is exaggerated needlessly. Also something I see a lot where people start the topspin with the racket behind their asses when next to the knee would have been enough :>
 
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A core strategy for playing lefties is down the line attacks. So I suspect they bother lefties substantially more, even if they bother other players more.

You got me good :p I hate it when others go down-the-line


But, as I have observed from righty-righty gameplay, pivoting and using the forehand down-the-line to the opponent's forehand seems to happen quite a lot to win points. Do you righties find this surprising? I want to learn beforehand in case I encounter a lefty-lefty scenario.
 
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You got me good :p I hate it when others go down-the-line


But, as I have observed from righty-righty gameplay, pivoting and using the forehand down-the-line to the opponent's forehand seems to happen quite a lot to win points. Do you righties find this surprising? I want to learn beforehand in case I encounter a lefty-lefty scenario.
It is surprising if you have the ability to go in both directions as most people believe the down the line is too risky as it leaves open a cross court block. But if the player can step back and sit on it it is usually an easy point for the blocker. So it has to be an ability to go both ways.
 
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2. I want to show a certain user how to properly ask the community questions and stick to one thread, hence the title of the thread.

This did make me smile when you first posted the thread. It certainly seemed to be implied. :)
 

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Leftys seem to mostly hook their forehands to a righty's bh. I don't get to play too many but I don't associate them with down the line winners.

Rightys who pivot do often go for winners down the fh line of another righty. I do this a lot (too much) myself. It's not surprising so much as it is just hard to cover if the ball is very close to the line. Rightys don't normally move towards the center when they see a righty opponent start to pivot because we don't want a ball outside our body/reach on the wide bh.

A backhand attack down the line is the same, but without giving up the attacker's table position like a pivot fh. But fewer people can execute a strong bh down the line.

Of course you are playing at 2300 level so all these calculations are probably different. The percentages of giving up a shot on the assumption that your opponent can't land it repeatedly have to be much lower up where you are.
 
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As some of you know, I qualified for NCTTA nationals a month ago, and the NCTTA National Championships start on Friday.

Since there isn't much time left, I don't think I can make drastic changes and improvements, but I hope that the community here can give me some advice that can tweak and adjust my game for the better.

I have a bunch of questions floating in my mind that I can't all think of right now, so I'll probably come back to this thread throughout the week.

****************

Some information about myself to give you some perspective:
I am a lefty penhold looper. About 2300 USATT in level on an average-good day. I pretty much always do some kind of pendulum serve, which I vary in spin and placement. My points consist of serve & attack, baiting weak loops to counterloop, and a back-up counterloop in case I don't get to attack first. I back off the table a lot since I'm usually expecting fast returns (so this is a good and bad thing that you guys can comment on).
Lately, I've been getting better at backhand blocking, but it is still not as good as I'd like it to be.

****************

On to the questions:

Usually, on my opponent's serve, if it is short, I will generally try to push short to their forehand. However, I am not perfect, and I won't perfectly read the serve every time (especially against players with a better serve).

Not taking into account severe, super-high popups (just higher-than-normal short pushes), I have two questions on this topic:

1. Do you guys think it is easier/better to prepare for no-spin/sidespin/topspin and then see if there is underspin to push
or is it easier/better to prepare for underspin and then look for no-spin/sidespin/topspin to flip?
I've noticed that with the first, I tend to hit more serves into the net, but with the second, I get more popups. So, the second is more passive (but I don't lose the point right away), but with the first, I can try to threaten my opponent with a flip and make them start serving underspin (but I risk losing the point right away). What are your thoughts? Maybe start out with the first mindset and then adjust from there? Or maybe using the active mindset is better for the long-term?

2. Which is a worse popup: one that goes down-the-line towards the forehand, or one that goes cross-court towards the backhand?
The one that goes down-the-line has a higher chance of becoming long (since down-the-line is shorter distance), but the angles of a strong attack are limited (they will cross-court to my backhand). The popup that goes cross court has two outcomes: if my opponent uses their forehand, they can probably hit anywhere on the table. If they use their backhand, they will probably go cross-court to my forehand. If I can get anticipate where they will hit, I have a chance to get back in the point with a counterattack. As of right now, I usually go for down-the-line short pushes

3. For experienced players and penholders especially (but it's fine if you are shakehand), if you guys forehand flip a short sidespin serve, do you use a soft wrist, or a tight wrist? How much wrist do you use? Do you use your wrist to get it over the net? Do you use it to add power? Do you mostly use your wrist or forearm to gain racket speed? How much brush do you add, if any?
If it's high, I don't have much of a problem, but for the low ones, I'm not that satisfied with the quality and consistency that I have. Maybe, it's because I don't have the confidence to use more racket speed, or I don't have enough spin. I'll try to take a video today of some forehand flips.

Hi David, i'm quite lower ranked compared to you, so probably not so good advice but here what I am trying to do, based on my understanding of my coaches

1- i'm trying NOT to think in advance about the upcoming spin too much. Else I would DECIDE in advance and make a mistake if the wrong ball is coming. One of my big weaknesses is replacement, so I prefer to tell myself in advance to get ready to play the NEXT ball after the receive which is also giving me POSITIVE energy because I'm telling myself that my return is going to be a good one.

That being said, I try to remember what serves happened and get ready a little bit more for a serve depending on what the server previously did, especially if i missed the receive, but even in this case my last thought before receiving would be to try to get ready for the 4th ball and so on.

2- its less worse to make a popup on the BH side than the FH side generally speaking. Given you're a leftie it means down the line. That being said, i think its better to go for a LONG push to avoid a popup. so given unfortunately you're a leftie, you have to train hard to get it on the table even if its down the line, or , if the miss rate is too high, maybe aim the middle ?

Actually i had the bad habit of re-playing short against a short receive or short push and often had pop-ups if i had a bad touch or misread the spin (=less spin than i thought), pushing long again usually forces the opponent to move in and off the table, and some players are not good at that, so even if the long push is not very good, its making the opponent work and can surprise him. also you open the game and KNOW that after a long push, the opponent will attack it so can get ready for block or counter, but if you re-push short then you don't know if the opponent is gonna re-push long or short or flick. I'd say playing something like 60-80% long pushes against short pushes is the better balance (i was doing more like 80% short again). That said that "bad" habit enabled me to develop my soft touch for the short game.

3- no idea, im not good at all at FH flip.

4- backswing earlier. When i was younger, i (counter) attacked naturally a ball going to my FH but with age, and with my style being closer to the table, i find it more difficult and I've been trying to find a solution to that problem specifically in the last weeks. I figured out that overall I had changed recently my technique for a bigger backswing and that was necessary to hit well the ball, and cannot compromise on that big backswing, else its a miss, - or the better is to block, which i'm rather good at.

So i try to read as early as possible when the opponent is looping / driving to my FH and commit to take the backswing early and then wait for the ball and swing. If the ball comes in the middle or BH, I try to adjust with a replacement shop or fishing. I have also to think about moving slightly away from the table when its in the middle of the rally.

Not ideal, but given my abilities thats what i think is best for me, surely not the best for you.
 
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To keep in line with your "Down the Line" tendencies... pun intended...

For you as a Lefty, vs righties, you have two advantages. Your FH topspin Hookshot breaking into their body and middle. Also, your BH will be in-natural to righties.

I would say if you have any kind of control over your BH, use it.. a LOT. Also, instead of going mach-man with the FH, soften it up and go away -Down the FH line.

If you can have control of the how deep the ball goes into the impact zone (or rotate waist and shoulders a bit more to let it come deeper while the ball is still in prime part of zone) then you will get a lot of easy chances.

Visitor to the Sitta club and friend lefty Mark Flores was very successful doing that. Opponent will not know where you are going on FH if you can control depth of impact in the impact zone.

As a Lefty vs a lefty... you will be able to setup a "Down the Line" down the BH line (as from perspective of the leftie opponent) with the same control of depth of impact zone. Having a softer grip at impact will allow you to "eat" opponent's spin some more and keep control better. It will be at the expense of some pace, but if you sell the opponent on the natural cross court angle, you will win the point anyway of have at least a good pressure shot and an opportunity to hit hard on next ball.

That is kinda a "softie and go Apeshyt" kinda approach, but it is a possible one... and one of the approaches you were discussing. It has some potential if you can control the impact zone.
 
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