Developing an offensive style as a beginner

Reirom · Apr 23, 2018

I'm thinking about developing players, such as myself, who want to improve their game by taking the initiative and attacking long balls (or flicking short serves) more consistently. I think it's common to see players of beginner or maybe intermediate level who waste opportunities to attack a long ball by pushing the ball all the time. I also remember a post from someone that for a beginner flicking a serve is often high risk/low reward, and for me that seems to be the case.

My club's coach is often scolding me (though much less than before) and other players for pushing easy long balls. Or sometimes I'm playing against someone else better than me and after the match they give the advice (with good intention, of course) to "be more patient and not attack so much, you are only losing points by doing this, etc". Last week I was going to a tournament and one of the club members who was going with me gave me the same advice of trying to push more and attack less, which is probably not a bad advice for me IF my focus is only winning.

I was reading this blog and one of the comments got my attention: "I guess the reason why young players tend do be passive is that they want to win, and at the lower levels it is way easier to win by being safe and letting the opponent to make mistakes rather than to force them. The path of becoming an assertive offensive player is very long and frustrating. Before getting any advantage from holding the initiative, one will have to lose enormous times to players that just let the opponent drown by themselves."

My point is, as a developing player, should you take every opportunity even if this will make you lose a lot of games just by unforced errors? Just set on stone that you are gonna try to take the initiative and attack as much as possible even if this mean losing tons of games 0-3? If that's the case should you also try to keep this mindset in competition? I want to hear you guys input on this matter.

From the blog:

"Before playing the World Championships in 2016, US National Team member Adam Hugh gave me a priceless piece of information - in a WTTC you will not be given opportunities, you need to work hard to create each chance, and when you do you need to make sure you take it."

Loopadoop · Apr 23, 2018

If you want blend development, fun and competitiveness together, go to North Little Rock Table Tennis Group Timeline page on Facebook, read the lengthy introduction, then make your decision, worth your time.

Reirom · Apr 23, 2018

Loopadoop said:
If you want blend development, fun and competitiveness together, go to North Little Rock Table Tennis Group Timeline page on Facebook, read the lengthy introduction, then make your decision, worth your time.

Can't find it, can you link me?

UpSideDownCarl · Apr 23, 2018

Reirom, you can train those attacks, flicking short balls and looping long pushes and keep playing matches with whatever you need to do to win. As you get more solid on attacking backspin in training you can add more and more of it into your matches without feeling you need to lose endless matches before you get solid with attacking those kinds of balls.

yogi_bear · Apr 23, 2018

As a coach, i always tell my students to always initiate attacks. This is because even at lower levels, if you have the ability to attack then you are sure winning a point rather than just playing passively and just do pushing.

ttmonster · Apr 23, 2018

May be we can think of it in a different way , the only way to be more consistent is not necessarily stopping to loop and starting to push , you could loop the same balls differently with softer hands , smaller strokes and make it spinner and and try to make it on the table more . Somebody told me that once you start making more balls on the table with proper form , the power the stroke will automatically increase as your playing level becomes more and more.
We always tend to forget that in table tennis defense to offense is a continuous arc and not discrete points with push and loop at two end ..... so my advise is that you don't need to stop looping long balls or flicking the balls are short and high and are within your reach ... every time you miss you need to think how to make it on the table without changing the choice of stroke ... and more thing in this case I think your coach is giving you the right advice , just take his advice ..

perham · Apr 23, 2018

TL;DR: attack every time you can.

I’m basically in the same shoes as you (as a striving to win beginner) and at some point I decided to go for it every time. I can assure you that the confidence you gain by attacking all the time compensates the lost point pretty fast.

In Belgium we have multiple amateur federations operating at the same time, and I started playing regularly in all 3 leagues last year. There are some old guys playing with really weird styles at the low level that can play pushes consistently. I’ve seen a single game between these guys that lasted 40 minutes, all pushes, no attack or nothing. At first I tried to play safe and push the backspins, but even though I was getting better at that, I was nowhere near the level of consistency these professional pushers had. So I promised myself to attack every long push I get no matter the outcome. After only few matches, I was topspinning everything, and they had no chance.
So if you want my advice, I say go for it, and forget about the point. It’ll come by itself.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

laistrogian · Apr 23, 2018

Just like everyone said, attack when you can. But it doesn't mean attack all the ball.

It's important to see which ball we have confident in looping / flicking. Sometimes you're out of position which means you shouldn't do it because you're most likely going to miss the attack. Other times, you're forced to attack or push the ball back.

Plenty of times I like to play games where we don't have to count the score. This usually lets the player to practice serve, flicks or loops they're not good at and try to bring it slowly to a game. Afterall, being able to hit something 90% in a multiball is completely different to hitting it 90% in a match condition.

Ilia Minkin · Apr 23, 2018

Reirom said:
My point is, as a developing player, should you take every opportunity even if this will make you lose a lot of games just by unforced errors? Just set on stone that you are gonna try to take the initiative and attack as much as possible even if this mean losing tons of games 0-3? If that's the case should you also try to keep this mindset in competition? I want to hear you guys input on this matter.

I think it depends on the long term goal. If your goal is to be competitive at local tourneys and have fun, it is best to have a good balance between offense and defense: attack if you have an opportunity, defend to collect easy points. But if you want to reach your full potential as a player, go for full-on attack style. It doesn't mean hitting winners against everything, just controlled open up attacks if you have an opportunity. It can also be a matter of mentality. For example, I simply enjoy being aggressive no matter what, even if it means losing matches I could have won. It still hurts when I lose to people that just push and block, but I care about it less and less.

Ilia Minkin · Apr 23, 2018

There also an important caveat. Many people say: "The player who attacks first usually wins, so attack first." The trick is that for this to be true, your attack have to possess enough quality to put the opponent under pressure. Of course, if Ma Long attacks first, he will probably win the point. But at amateur level it is different. Even if you are consistent with the first attack, you will eventually face players who use your first attacks against yourself, they are usually blockers or counterloopers who can't loop backspin (otherwise they would be higher level players). It is very frustrating to spend years learning how to open up consistently in matches (it is a very hard skilll!), and then you play a dude who says "Thank you very much!" every time you open up and slaps your opener with the open racket while standing with his legs straight and with a bottle of beer in his free hand. As an aspiring attacker you will have the following stages in developing:

1) The build-up: you try to attack first, but lose because you simply miss.
2) The consistency: now you put your openers on the table 80% of the time, but the quality is not enough, so blockers and counterattackers use your own attacks against you.
3) The quest for quality: as you slowly improving the quality of your shots, you start to overpower the blockers, and face other attackers that also try to attack first. This is where attacking first becomes vital, because if you don't, you get overpowered.

Moving between two consecutive stages is at least a couple of years of consistent high-quality training. Is it worth it? Well, you have to decide for yourself.

P.S. I left that comment you mentioned lol.

watcher · Apr 23, 2018

In my first couple years of playing table tennis, I gave up on winning matches, and simply 'practiced' my strokes in match play. If you have someone willing to practice with you, you can practice all the different offensive strokes, but if you do not have that luxury like I did, I used match play as my practice, and I lost a ton of matches. Looking back, I don't have any regrets on this decision, as I am a better player today for doing so.

On the other side, I've an acquaintance whom I met a year ago. At the moment, he can take one out of every 5 or 6 matches from me. His defense and reaction times have improved drastically since we started playing together, but he rarely finds enough comfort to attack and does not really try. He is very focused and intent on taking games from me, which he finds great enjoyment in, but I wonder perhaps, if he were to let go for a few months to learn to attack successfully, that he may actually surpass me sooner

iammaru · Apr 23, 2018

laistrogian said:
Just like everyone said, attack when you can. But it doesn't mean attack all the ball.

It's important to see which ball we have confident in looping / flicking. Sometimes you're out of position which means you shouldn't do it because you're most likely going to miss the attack. Other times, you're forced to attack or push the ball back.

+1
You should attack when you can, don't attack for the sake of it. E.g. a long, high/slow push, you should open the attack but if the opponent give you a fast, deep and low push to your backhand, you probably should push it back.

I was taught and trained to attack every long ball when I was a kid, only a few years, but I've kept the habit till today. After 20 years of playing, I can tell you it's not the whole story. First, attack every ball with consistency is very hard, not everyone is Ma Long or some professional player who train 4-8 hours a day. Defend is also an important part of the game no matter how good you are at attacking.
So, don't push yourself to attack every ball, you need to learn which ball you can/should attack and when you need to push the ball back and prepare to defend or counter, or wait for a better chance. If you are used to attack everything possible without caring about the success rate or if it causes trouble for your opponents or not, you can become a player like me. I'm very good at attacking (compared to my level) but very bad at defend. Sometimes I have to attack every ball possible because I'm scared (consciously and unconsciously) that I can't defend if I let the opponent attack first. It's not good at all because sometimes I push myself to attack very difficult pushes/serves and the success rate is not good enough. And I don't have any "B plan" if my attacking game doesn't work.

Summary: you should attack if it's an easy (enough) push and the (estimated) success rate is high. If the push is too difficult and your success rate is too low, don't go for it, just return it and wait for a better chance. If your coach scolds you, I think it's because you don't attack the easy pushes, not the difficult ones.

songdavid98 · Apr 23, 2018

Reirom said:
I'm thinking about developing players, such as myself, who want to improve their game by taking the initiative and attacking long balls (or flicking short serves) more consistently. I think it's common to see players of beginner or maybe intermediate level who waste opportunities to attack a long ball by pushing the ball all the time. I also remember a post from someone that for a beginner flicking a serve is often high risk/low reward, and for me that seems to be the case.

My club's coach is often scolding me (though much less than before) and other players for pushing easy long balls. Or sometimes I'm playing against someone else better than me and after the match they give the advice (with good intention, of course) to "be more patient and not attack so much, you are only losing points by doing this, etc". Last week I was going to a tournament and one of the club members who was going with me gave me the same advice of trying to push more and attack less, which is probably not a bad advice for me IF my focus is only winning.

I was reading this blog and one of the comments got my attention: "I guess the reason why young players tend do be passive is that they want to win, and at the lower levels it is way easier to win by being safe and letting the opponent to make mistakes rather than to force them. The path of becoming an assertive offensive player is very long and frustrating. Before getting any advantage from holding the initiative, one will have to lose enormous times to players that just let the opponent drown by themselves."

My point is, as a developing player, should you take every opportunity even if this will make you lose a lot of games just by unforced errors? Just set on stone that you are gonna try to take the initiative and attack as much as possible even if this mean losing tons of games 0-3? If that's the case should you also try to keep this mindset in competition? I want to hear you guys input on this matter.

From the blog:

"Before playing the World Championships in 2016, US National Team member Adam Hugh gave me a priceless piece of information - in a WTTC you will not be given opportunities, you need to work hard to create each chance, and when you do you need to make sure you take it."

Reminds me of one of my early threads https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?13149-Change-the-short-term-mindset

I think, first, the player has to first understand this very concept. Tell them that in order to improve, they will be missing shots. many, many shots.

I pretty much did this in my first year of play. I played every Saturday in a mini-league against absolutely everyone, and I lost to absolutely everyone. I tried to loop everything, since I wanted to be like professionals on TV. I understood what I was doing and I had an end-goal that I was working towards, so I never stopped. And so, here I am, a crazy aggressive looper that doesn't care about missing that much.

Loopadoop · Apr 23, 2018

Reirom said:
Can't find it, can you link me?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=342086315980764&id=148827775306620

Ilia Minkin · Apr 23, 2018

Loopadoop said:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=342086315980764&id=148827775306620

This is rather fascinating to read:

In Russia .. TT training in public schools is free from 8-18 years old .. by professional coaches .. in Siberia .. girls generally have inherent weak backhands ..

Lightzy · Apr 23, 2018

The mistake most often made by beginners who (justly) want to develop an aggressive style is to push their body into the ball or extend their arms forward to touch it. That's where you need to be patient, wait for the ball to jump to you, because don't worry about it, it will. Only then you can attack properly.
So your friends are right when they tell you to be patient. But you can still attack every ball, if you know how.

My personal suggestion:
If you want to learn to be offensive, learn step by step.
1) First learn a short backspin serve.
2) Then get someone to push our serve short, so you can learn to push it back short yourself, and just keep pushing short
3) Ask the person working with you to randomly make a mistake, pushing a bit too long or a bit too high, and when that is done, you try to attack.

What will happen is that first you'll learn to attack easier balls, and gradually you'll begin to gain confidence and attack harder and harder balls until you're all offense.
This way you practice basic, crucial skills which you can't do without at a higher level and which are easy to learn, and learn to attack gradually in a natural gameplay setting.
That is how I teach to attack anyway. Start with game basics.

UpSideDownCarl · Apr 24, 2018

One detail that is worth understanding, the better your attacking gets, the better your short game, including pushing, needs to be.

It is definitely worth training all the skills needed for a dynamic offensive game. Even if you watch the best of the best, both Ma Long and Fan Zhendong push sometimes even though we know they both can attack any ball they want.

And I promise, their pushes are really good.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Der_Echte · Apr 24, 2018

One way to go about it is for a long spell learn how to play all your shots off the bounce close to the table and expand. Learn control of grip pressure and compact biomechanic decent strokes.

Those few things are a short list easy to remember and can apply later down the road as well as right away.

Ilia Minkin · May 1, 2018

Attacking first in table tennis is overrated.

Developing an offensive style as a beginner

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