Topspin against slow no spin ball

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Hey guys!

I’ve noticed a strange phenomena happening in my game, and that is me putting simple topspin vs. slow no spin balls long. This is very strange, since when I play against a stronger opponent, my consistency in topspin vs. backspin or top spin or even fast no spin is really good. But I have noticed that against weaker opponents where the pace of the game is quite slow, my timing is off, and my top spins often go long against slower almost no spin balls. So far, I mostly revert to hitting the ball more flat, and just getting the point, but this is against my “topspin everything” moto. Is the stroke against such balls fundamentally different?


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The old slow no spin ball... Hate to play against it but a great weapon in stressfull situations.

I'm not a coach, but they told me the topspin stroke is the same for backspin, topspin and no spin, the angle just changes.

I think it's a bit more complicated. The thing is, if the ball is slow, usually I need to slow down my stroke to hit it at its highest point, otherwise I'm catching it too fast off the bounce, and I need to kinda lift it. When I do the slow-down, I think what happens is that less spin is put on the ball, so it doesn't take a loop trajectory, but rather just goes long. If I adjust the angle to land it, then I'm mostly hitting it flat, like a drive, hence not much topspin.
 
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100% know what you're talking about. I won't pretend to have mastered this area but rather what I try to do... Easier said than done.

First off, this is why I think it's important to play even people of newer levels to get use to the variation of speed & spin. If you only ever hit with the good players at your club, pretty soon you become a "spin leech". As in you feed off the spin from you opponent to hit your own shots. That's not good because there's a million different styles and types of players out there and you're training to be good vs just a few of them.

Couple weeks ago I played an older gentlemen who I know I could beat in my sleep. We hadn't played in some time. We played. I won 3-0 but each game was tougher than I expected. At least a couple of them went 11-9. No matter what I did I couldn't find a rhythm in my normal shot which has some power to it. I kept sending it long.

Then I realized the problem is the person I'm playing against hits with decent speed but very little spin. That's why in my shots the ball wasn't biting as hard into my rubber and I was picking up the ball in my loop and sending it long. I wasn't adjusting for the relative lack of spin.

So I made an adjustment. I simply played more calm, more tactical, more controlled. That's probably not the answer you're looking for. I know you'd like to hear "do this technique to get your monster spin vs these shots" and that probably can be done but lets analyze the situation. When you run into people who play like this? What's 95% of what's going on? They're simply not all that advanced right? If they were, they'd probably hit with more shot quality & spin. Well then just beat them with your consistency. Don't need the wow shots vs them. Just put it in play in the right spot, win the match & move on... I suppose if you're well ahead in certain games you could practice spinning it up on them every now & then.
 
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I think it's a bit more complicated. The thing is, if the ball is slow, usually I need to slow down my stroke to hit it at its highest point, otherwise I'm catching it too fast off the bounce, and I need to kinda lift it. When I do the slow-down, I think what happens is that less spin is put on the ball, so it doesn't take a loop trajectory, but rather just goes long. If I adjust the angle to land it, then I'm mostly hitting it flat, like a drive, hence not much topspin.
Just by reading what you typed, isn't the solution just to wait longer before you accelerate? If you're hitting the ball too fast off the bounce, wait longer before you start your swing so you hit the ball on the top of the bounce.

Every situation is different so it's complicated for sure, but that's the way they teached me (in theory!). Your bat follows a straight line. To topspin on topspin you must swing more horizontal, to topspin on backspin more vertical. But I will let some real coach explain the proper theory. :)
 
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100% know what you're talking about. I won't pretend to have mastered this area but rather what I try to do... Easier said than done.

First off, this is why I think it's important to play even people of newer levels to get use to the variation of speed & spin. If you only ever hit with the good players at your club, pretty soon you become a "spin leech". As in you feed off the spin from you opponent to hit your own shots. That's not good because there's a million different styles and types of players out there and you're training to be good vs just a few of them.

Couple weeks ago I played an older gentlemen who I know I could beat in my sleep. We hadn't played in some time. We played. I won 3-0 but each game was tougher than I expected. At least a couple of them went 11-9. No matter what I did I could find a rhythm in my normal shot which has some power to it. I kept sending it long.

Then I realized the problem is the person I'm playing against hits with decent speed but very little spin. That's why in my shots the ball wasn't biting as hard into my rubber and I was picking up the ball in my loop and sending it long. I wasn't adjusting for the relative lack of spin.

So I made an adjustment. I simply played more calm, more tactical, more controlled. That's probably not the answer you're looking for. I know you'd like to hear "do this technique to get your monster spin vs these shots" and that probably can be done but lets analyze the situation. When you run into people who play like this? What's 95% of what's going on? They're simply not all that advanced right? If they were, they'd probably hit with more shot quality & spin. Well then just beat them with your consistency. Don't need the wow shots vs them. Just put it in play in the right spot, win the match & move on... I suppose if you're well ahead in certain games you could practice spinning it up on them every now & then.

I’m happy to see I’m not alone in this. [emoji23] I completely agree, and I kinda follow the same strategy as you do. Winning is not the problem most often. It’s just that it’s way more fun winning with some wow shots, and if in a match I play four opponents like that and I just win with passive play, I feel unsatisfied mentally.


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Just by reading what you typed, isn't the solution just to wait longer before you accelerate? If you're hitting the ball too fast off the bounce, wait longer before you start your swing so you hit the ball on the top of the bounce.

Every situation is different so it's complicated for sure, but that's the way they teached me (in theory!). Your bat follows a straight line. To topspin on topspin you must swing more horizontal, to topspin on backspin more vertical. But I will let some real coach explain the proper theory. :)

Actually that is the solution, however, the rhythm of play (at least in my case) is not fully conscious. Everything fits in when the rhythm is fast, and kinda falls apart when it's too slow. It's a bit difficult for me to explain exactly what goes wrong.
 
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When the opponent feeds you light/medium topspin or backspin with pace, they are doing part of the work for you. For instance, the incoming topspin means there will be a good amount of topspin in your own return without trying hard, so more arc on the ball for it to land on the table. Also, you practice these balls the most and you know the timing by heart.

Moreover, topspin/backspin balls with some pace "weigh" quite a bit. Just enough to feel comfortable. You can feel the impact and the "resistance" on your blade quite well. A no-spin, no-pace ball does not have that weight/resistance of its own, it is very "light". So if you are not assertive upon contact and you don't put the weight of your body into the shot, the ball will fly out or die in the net.

You need to take these balls seriously, even if you think they are low quality. Move into position and get the timing right so that you can kill it. If you're late on the ball, it is better not to try to kill it. Play it with variation of placement, of spin and pace.

Remember, the timing of a no-spin ball is different. What happens here is similar to what happens against short pips players. Even if the ball comes fast at first, it will have less kick after the bounce than a ball with topspin, so it will technically "slow down" after the bounce. If you fail to acknowledge that, it'll catch the edge of your bat or fly out. If you unconsciously realise and adjust mid-way into the shot by "reaching for it", you will net. So don't rush the shot, just wait for the ball to reach you and do a full stroke.
 
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this is what I think when I land in this situation ..... try to grab the ball with the paddle more in your stroke , that is consciously try to increase the dwell time ... essentially you are not able put as much spin as against top spin or underspin . ... it is very rarely pure no spin , its either very light under or very light top , if you can identify that it should help you to be more consistent
 
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Spin and speed are both forms of free energy from your opponent, so slow no spin balls force you to provide more of the energy yourself. That's obvious when trying to impart speed, but equally true for spin. So you have to swing faster, harder (more weight transfer into the ball), or hold the ball on your racket longer. All require changes in timing and often racket angle and stroke trajectory which is why it can be so tricky. I think the main difficulty for most people, definitely for me, is timing. The thing that helps me the most is concentrating on keeping my weight on my back foot as long as possible.
 
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Don't you need to slow down your racket speed and accelerate after the rubber grabs the ball on a slow no spin, at least if you want to loop it?

So the stroke might not change, but the angle of the blade face and how you contact the ball should. Topspin automatically bites the rubber because it is topspin. Backspin, you have to brush fast enough to grab the ball. But if you try either of those contacts on a dead ball you end up in the net or long. Sounds like you are trying to attach no spin as though it is backspin. Got to move the racket slow enough to grab the ball and then accelerate to spin it.

But doing the slapadelic, like what Xylit said, on a no spin also works if it is not lower than the net.
 
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this is what I usually do... push with good placement (not really a backspin push... just... a push? :p ) or a short chop to make it a low backspin ball

When I try to loop/flick it, I find that either I miss the table, or the ball that I return to the other side is too easily attackable. It's likely I'm not at a level where I could create dangerous enough balls when attacking relatively low, no spin balls over the table. it doesn't stop me from trying to brush loop it every now and then for practice purposes, but that was just my observation
 
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Several ways to go about it.

Mostly, guys wanna put a man-sized topspin on this ball. It won't happen if you are expecting the ball to be something else - that makes you off time, off your bat angle, and way out of strike zone... a recipe for disaster that will make your opponent giggle.

The key to this is recognizing the touch and impact of the opponent's shot. That is where your efforts should be at. That will give you the most long-term value.

Once you see what opponent is doing, step forward and nail the ball while it is high. It will come natural to you when you are in position ready to strike when the ball is in the strike zone.

Another way is to see what is going on and allow the ball to come to your strike zone. Often, the ball will be on its decent, sometimes WAY on the decent. You have options here too. A medium stroke with soft to medium grip with a half graze half solid strike will make a ball with very heavy topspin. Your goal is to land this very deep near endline or very shallow near net. You will get a block and out, or a ball you can go apeshyt on the block...

Another option is to let ball fall below table so opponent does not see your impact. You impact with soft hand and a LARGE arm movement (that is mostly dummy) and get the ball back low and shallow. It will make opponent want to try to crush the ball, but it is a difficult one, plus he or she isn't gunna read the spin... and make a lot of errors. Later, they play it safe, so you can go bananas on the next ball.

A LOT of Div 1 Korean amature players use this shot. It works for a good reason.

The answer isn't to man-crush-kill the ball on every opportunity, but yeah, if it is there do it or if you set it up well do it.
 
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This is a really good question. I have the same problem. I found out that i have to turn my body into the shot more against such balls. Meaning actively turning the hip in and using the legs for a proper weight transfer. This can be very taxing... as its much easier to counter top with a much smaller motion and without that much forward motion, as the ball already has enough forward momentum (at least close to the table that is).
I think the key to mastering such shots is identify them, you have much more time against such shots. so its important to focus on footwork and the right positioning to execute the right shot. Because if you are in position you can execute the shots much more easily.
 
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