World's first? - Inner Textreme blades

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Recently I've been experimenting with some different materials, different carbons, glass fibre and most recently textreme. I have to say that textreme is easier to use than a classic hybrid weave as the glue sits on top rather than between the different strands, as a result less glue is needed. It's also easier to cut, a high quality pair of scissors will do the trick. The downside is that it's more expensive than aramid carbon. As i believe this could be a world's first I thought I'd give it a thread of its own.

As for how they play? I don't know yet as I've only just completed these. One is for me and the other for Chris Fagyal who worked on the composition with me.

Blade 1 - Kiri - textreme - spruce - American redwood burl. 91g, 6.0mm. The handle wood is camphor burl and purple heart. This is quite a striking blade, lots of complex woods. This was made for Chris who likes exciting woods and always challenges my blade making skills. The handle woods were particularly difficult to shape.


ChrisFredwoodblade.jpgIMG_0756.jpg

Blade 2 - Ayous - textreme - ayous - mahogany. 95g, 5.8mm. Handle wood is mahogany, rippled maple and walnut. The handle is one of my first conical designs. A very comfortable shape. There's a touch more weight in the handle (2 or 3g) due to the size of the handle which is 2.65mm high at the end and reduces to 2.45mm near the wings.

mahoganytex.jpgIMG_0750.jpg
 
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I'm anxious to play with my blade. It should hopefully be here this week. I intend to put the new Joola Rhyzer rubbers on it. Rhyzer 48 on the FH and 43 on the BH. I'll post my thoughts after I get some good play time in with it. I expect the redwood+spruce combo with Textreme to be rather fast and bouncy. Probably the high end of offensive.

Thanks again Alan!
Chris
 
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How is textreme different in application to ALC/Zylon/Kevlar?
 
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Textreme is spread tow carbon fibre fabric which uses a 20mm tape in the weave to significantly reduce the number of overlaps in the weave as compared to a typical 3K twill weave fabric. This means the fabric is significantly (c. 20%) lighter than a standard twill weave carbon fibre. It also yields a fabric which doesn't crimp easily and is nearly as strong as a unidrectional carbon fibre.

This article explains Textreme well, specifically the 80gsm that Alan refers to: https://compositeenvisions.com/text...-36oz-45-45-spread-tow-carbon-fiber-2271.html
 
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Textreme is spread tow carbon fibre fabric which uses a 20mm tape in the weave to significantly reduce the number of overlaps in the weave as compared to a typical 3K twill weave fabric. This means the fabric is significantly (c. 20%) lighter than a standard twill weave carbon fibre. It also yields a fabric which doesn't crimp easily and is nearly as strong as a unidrectional carbon fibre.

This article explains Textreme well, specifically the 80gsm that Alan refers to: https://compositeenvisions.com/text...-36oz-45-45-spread-tow-carbon-fiber-2271.html
,
well put Chris!
 
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Yes, that is how it is different in property, but how is it different in application? Which is to say, why use it instead of ALC for example?
 
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Yes, that is how it is different in property, but how is it different in application? Which is to say, why use it instead of ALC for example?

From a construction point of view it's much easier to use, see my original post for details. As for playing properties, neither has been tested yet so I can't comment. A bounce test suggests a very large sweet spot and an off speed with a fairly soft feel but bounce tests are often misleading.
 
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I have to be honest, if the carbon is next to the core instead of next to the top ply, I am not sure it matters if it is plain carbon or ALC. Or, perhaps, plain carbon may work better. The intermediary wood ply does a lot of what the Arylate would do when it is next to the top ply in the first place. So, textreme inner ply may be more effective than ALC or ZLC inner ply. And certainly the ZLC inner ply blades give more than the ALC inner ply. It is interesting to me that Butterfly has not tried an inner ply tamka 5000 blade. Because I think that would be something people would like. Whereas, T5000 under the top ply is usually crazy.
 
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I have to be honest, if the carbon is next to the core instead of next to the top ply, I am not sure it matters if it is plain carbon or ALC. Or, perhaps, plain carbon may work better. The intermediary wood ply does a lot of what the Arylate would do when it is next to the top ply in the first place. So, textreme inner ply may be more effective than ALC or ZLC inner ply. And certainly the ZLC inner ply blades give more than the ALC inner ply. It is interesting to me that Butterfly has not tried an inner ply tamka 5000 blade. Because I think that would be something people would like. Whereas, T5000 under the top ply is usually crazy.
In theory it has lot to say how you make a composite laminate (wood+ fiber reinforcement) I won’t go into details. But it has a lot to say. There is a lot factors that needs to be considered to calculate the exact difference in properties. Then we need the specs from companies making the fiber materials, but again what we are interested about is how it plays. Fastest way to make a quick comparison is to make two identical blades one with TeXtreme carbon and one with ALC, ZLC, etc.

Carl, Butterfly has made an Innerforce T5000 but I think it is discontinued.

 
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I could make a replica of what Alan made for me but with ZLC carbon. I just purchased some ZLC carbon, and I have some Redwood burl that i haven't used as well as some Lutz Spruce (A Sitka/White Spruce hybrid). Would be very interesting to see the difference in properties. I would surmise the ZLC blade would be softer slightly.
 
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Yes, that is how it is different in property, but how is it different in application? Which is to say, why use it instead of ALC for example?

It does not have the high frequency vibration dampening that you get with arylate and zylon (or kevlar or other aramids). It has a very different feel, in a lot of ways it is a bit of an old fashioned composite since it is only carbon albeit one with a quite different weave pattern than had ever been used previously. Some people will like it.
 
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There are lots of interesting and thoughtful ideas here and much to learn and take on board and I'd like to think what I'm about to say backs up what everyone else is suggesting rather than contradicts it.
What I do know is that the composition of blades is highly complex and, i feel, that it is very hard to devise a formula or theory that will predict or explain how a blade will actually play. There is something in the interaction between different woods and materials that is less tangible and can't be explained by such things as density, elasticity or Janka/hardness ratings. The very nature of wood means that not every veneer or core is the same, I find myself checking the feel and weight of each piece of wood as there is variance. I often dry veneers and cores for considerable periods of time to remove moisture as this can vary too. Then there's working methods and materials: glue types, varnish/sealing methods, different tools, application methods, pressing methods etc which all have an effect. I make lots of other blades which I don't post here which are experiments to test ideas and formulas, some work brilliantly others less so and require further refinement. I've used spreadsheets to calculate estimated weight, flex and hardness but in the end there is a less than scientific element to blade making which I'm yet to fully define. I'd also be fairly confident in saying that very few people, if any, can fully define it. I'm sure the best blade makers in the world get it wrong and have to go back to the drawing board to figure out why. In addition to this there is personal preference. What one person thinks is the perfect blade doesn't work for someone else. For me this is what makes blade making a challenging, rewarding, often frustrating, yet completely addictive and fascinating activity.
 
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I agree Alan. I like the process of trying to match a blade up to an individual in terms of the feel that they want, the style of play they desire etc. These are things that are difficult to accomplish buying a commercial blade, as you often don’t know the composition, and are at the mercy of what the commercial companies decide to do, which often times is just rebranding previous designs. I love the flexibility to try different things, and through that experimentation, learn and grow my understanding for future blades.
 
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Hey Alan (and others),

I am REALLY interested in using Innegra S fibers and it's been nearly impossible for me to find it in a low weight (GSM) when mixed with carbon fibers. I can get pure Innegra S in a bunch of weights, but it would have tons of vibration reducing effects, but no stiffness. I see that Textreme makes a blend that would work (textreme 1162), but it's a little more than I want to spend for something just to test. Have you tried anything with Innegra S?
 
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