Why do many pro's apparently hide the ball during services

It is the camera angle. At the pro level even if the serve is hidden they can still read the spin by just reading the bounce of the ball.

Or it could be that hiding the serve is advantageous, and umpires, for some reason, don't enforce the rules. Specifically from the ITTF handbook on service (https://www.ittf.com/handbook/):
2.6.4 ...and it shall not be hidden from the receiver by the server or ...
2.6.6.1 If either the umpire or the assistant umpire is not sure about the legality of
a service he or she may, on the first occasion in a match, interrupt play
and warn the server; but any subsequent service by that player or his or
her doubles partner which is not clearly legal shall be considered incorrect.


And now we examine this service analysis video on the official ITTF site (nice vid btw):
https://youtu.be/TCCBQhVd4tU?t=71 - You want to stop the video at this point (1:11 in) and then use the , and . keys to step through it frame by frame.


This camera angle conclusively shows that FZD's head hides the ball from Koki for 4 or 5 frames since we are directly opposite Koki's line of sight. And this illegal serve in an official ITTF video on service...


I'd like to see the rules either reflect the reality of what they're going to enforce, or enforce the rules as written - which is my preference - hidden serves are not good for the sport - serves are a big advantage as is.


The fact is that most servers on the pro level no longer hide the ball contact with the racquet, but some portion of the ball's flight _is_ hidden - usually by the head or shoulder.


While we're on the topic of illegal serves not getting called, the new video of Dan playing ITTF prez Thomas Weikert (fun vid Dan - thanks!) has a clearly illegal serve from Weikart (not talking about the joke, quick serve, which also is clearly illegal [no stationary hand, or 6 inches]):
https://youtu.be/GFo9hfo4Kwc?t=166



Clearly not 6 inches. Which is one of my pet peeves in local club play - lots of players don't toss the ball nearly 6 inches. And then we get the ridiculous, inconsistent calls of too low services in big tournaments:
Ma Long: https://youtu.be/2qOY6wk98eI?t=30
Robert Gardos: https://youtu.be/2qOY6wk98eI?t=60
There's another equally bad, recent call against Ma Long where the ball is clearly above his head at the peak - yet somehow it's too low. (can't find that vid atm) - the ref thinks that Ma's hand following the ball upwards somehow makes the toss not 6 inches - or something!


I think people have forgotten why the 6 inch rule was instituted in the first place - to stop quick serves, to make sure that the receiver can anticipate when the ball will be struck so the critical preparatory footwork can be executed.


The fact is, 6 inches is difficult to differentiate from say 4 inches or 3 inches (about what Weikert's serve is). I'd like to see the rule be 12 inches. That way, if someone *only* tosses it 6 or 8 inches (in club play), it's still enough time for the receiver to get ready. Less than 6 inches is extremely obviously less than 12 inches, so the call is easy, and hard to contest.


/rant

The pros kind of make their serves as close to against the rules as possible without being quite against the rules where the ball is almost hidden. But not quite, where the ball arcs towards their body but still goes up more than back and towards them.

If you try doing it you realize that, when the ball arcs back and towards you on the toss, you get more spin; when you contact the ball right near your right hip (for a righty) you get more spin; when the ball is almost hidden, but not quite, it takes the opponent a fraction of a second longer to read the serve. Every little advantage helps.

But when you practice making your serves so close to being against the rules, so borderline, then some of the times they just cross the border. [emoji2]


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These days pros return serve so well that maybe they just let servers do it because it doesnt matter. Especially with 40+ balls it is possible to be a lot more agressive returning npw.

Baal said:

These days pros return serve so well that maybe they just let servers do it because it doesnt matter. Especially with 40+ balls it is possible to be a lot more agressive returning npw.

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Only partially agree. Yes, they return well, like you can see if an amateur tries to receive their serve, and yes with the new ball it becomes easier to flip and rip a lot of balls.
But yet, serves matter so much, like in each game there's usually at least a returning error on each side. (And I found that side spin still works a good deal even with ABS balls)

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Koki Niwa said:

I have actual difficulty receiving illegal serves from my friends. Then I re-watched many pro matches closely and they actually serve illegally too, with real advantage. One example is the match between Fang Bo and Koki Niwa where I found Koki failed to receive the serves half of the times.

It's sad, people should really learn from Timo Boll: he waits for the opponents to really get ready, he never hides the ball during service

Click to expand...

So if it's against friends the psychological effect is probably not so important, but merely because it's difficult to read the spin?
(You know the psychology is often so important, like some guys who over complaining about having to play with plastic ball have already lost, because they focus so much on their "disadvantage")

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Koki Niwa said:

I have actual difficulty receiving illegal serves from my friends. Then I re-watched many pro matches closely and they actually serve illegally too, with real advantage. One example is the match between Fang Bo and Koki Niwa where I found Koki failed to receive the serves half of the times.

It's sad, people should really learn from Timo Boll: he waits for the opponents to really get ready, he never hides the ball during service

Click to expand...

I have seen Boll do stuff that looked borderline. I have seen Boll do serves that weren't within the standards of the rules. I have seen pretty much every top pro have serves at some point or another that were not quite legal. And that is what happens when you practice making your serves borderline.

Samsonov gotta have the cleanest FH Pendulum of anyone alive.

We could also make it a rule to serve totally in front of body with BH let's say... then no doubt ball will be visible all the way.

Many women defensive players serve BH, a few attacking ones too. No so many people cry about their serves being illegal, so it isn't EVERYONE... but yeah, the number who do bend or break the serve rules make it feel like it is just about everyone.

@Carl...

Damn Carl, it is nearly 0300 AM in NYC... are you doing a stakeout from Observation Post 27 watching the entrance to your Crackhouse #13 for possible Goon Squad trespassers?

When umpires don't call service faults, it causes a snowball effect, many think they have to do it to compete..

Please tell me how this isn't illegal:

Der_Echte said:

@Carl...

Damn Carl, it is nearly 0300 AM in NYC... are you doing a stakeout from Observation Post 27 watching the entrance to your Crackhouse #13 for possible Goon Squad trespassers?

Click to expand...

Leave it to Der to figure me out.

I was itching to read Berndt's convoluted comment, only to get reminded he's not with us anymore...

He is back in play over at MyTT... you could also offer about.com your services to run the forum...

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I tried to do a charitable thing and prevailed on the owner of MyTT to let him back. And the owner agreed.

But some things never change.