T2 APAC 2018 who's confirmed?

Brs · May 15, 2018

usualsuspect said:
Um... you do realize Ding Ning isn't any other player. She's (arguably) the best female player right now. That's why I used this example, the best male player (arguably) vs. the best female player. Not sure how that weakens my argument. I thought it's more effective to compare male player and female player with similar respective rankings. Also, this is just an example, I know Ma Long isn't in T2APAC.

Obviously I didn't make my point clear. ML would toy with every single player in t2 apac, male and female. He is so far ahead of the field right now that basically only FZD makes him play his best. That's why I said ML was not a good comparison to use.

More applicable would be something like Harimoto vs Bernie Szocs. Smash and scream x 2. Or FTW vs JSH.

ttmonster · May 15, 2018

In Open competitions in US frequently men vs women happens , and you will be surprised at the results. Its not so easy to say "oh we should give women 5-0 handicap" .. the thing is men are not used to playing against players who are that quick , so they also have troubles adjusting .. take a look at few matches to understand how difficult its before people adapt ...

note that there is a 150 point difference already in terms of rating points and you should watch all the sets to get an insight each video is only for one set ...
In general in usatt ratings they say its nearly impossible to beat somebody if there is a 200 point difference , and these are already matured players not kids who are improving ...

usualsuspect · May 15, 2018

Brs said:
Obviously I didn't make my point clear. ML would toy with every single player in t2 apac, male and female. He is so far ahead of the field right now that basically only FZD makes him play his best. That's why I said ML was not a good comparison to use.

More applicable would be something like Harimoto vs Bernie Szocs. Smash and scream x 2. Or FTW vs JSH.

The strength difference would be great between male and female players of similar ranking. I would say most male players would be able to counterloop most shots from female players without problem and recover quickly for the next shot. Female players would not be able to hit as hard and, more importantly, would not be able to recover as quickly for a powerful follow up shot.
Maybe in early sets of a match, the difference might not be as noticeable. But in the later sets when rallies get longer and fatigue start to set in, the difference will become obvious.

mrk · May 15, 2018

TTHopeful said:
Ding Ning vs Paul Drinkhall what would happen, would paul win easily? ?

No chance for Ding Ning or any other women. Womens are much much slower and weaker. Every Top 100 male would crush Ding Ning easily.

Brs · May 15, 2018

mrk said:
No chance for Ding Ning or any other women. Womens are much much slower and weaker. Every Top 100 male would crush Ding Ning easily.

Yes, and strength and speed are everything in table tennis. It's not some girly sport where skill is the most important thing. That's why for example a 14 year old boy could never in a million years compete with grown men who are twice his size .. oh, wait ... never mind.

Atas Newton · May 15, 2018

Every top 100 player - no. Have a look:

Every top 20 player - most definitely.

usualsuspect · May 15, 2018

Brs said:
Yes, and strength and speed are everything in table tennis. It's not some girly sport where skill is the most important thing. That's why for example a 14 year old boy could never in a million years compete with grown men who are twice his size .. oh, wait ... never mind.

First of all, it depends on the boy. (Have you seen FZD when he's 14?).

Second, your comparison isn't analogous to what we are discussing. We are talking about men vs. women, not grown men vs. adolescent boy. (Again, FZD at age 14 is probably as strong as an average professional TT player).

Third, there's logical fallacy in your argument again. Just because it's possible for Harimoto to beat FZD, doesn't mean all physically weaker players can consistently defeat their stronger counterpart.

usualsuspect · May 15, 2018

Atas Newton said:
Every top 100 player - no. Have a look:

Every top 20 player - most definitely.

Come on now, legendary players like Li Xiaoxia and Zhang Yining won't go down so easily.

Brs · May 15, 2018

usualsuspect said:
Um... you do realize Ding Ning isn't any other player. She's (arguably) the best female player right now. That's why I used this example, the best male player (arguably) vs. the best female player. Not sure how that weakens my argument. I thought it's more effective to compare male player and female player with similar respective rankings. Also, this is just an example, I know Ma Long isn't in T2APAC.

usualsuspect said:
First of all, it depends on the boy. (Have you seen FZD when he's 14?).

Second, your comparison isn't analogous to what we are discussing. We are talking about men vs. women, not grown men vs. adolescent boy. (Again, FZD at age 14 is probably as strong as an average professional TT player).

Third, there's logical fallacy in your argument again. Just because it's possible for Harimoto to beat FZD, doesn't mean all physically weaker players can consistently defeat their stronger counterpart.

I wasn't replying to you. Did you read mrk's post saying every top 100 man would crush DN easily because they are all stronger and faster than her? That's what I was replying to.

And I suggest you stop mentioning logic in your posts if you can't tell the difference between an assertion that physically weaker players can sometimes beat stronger players in table tennis, which is what I said using Harinoto as an example, and asserting that weaker players will consistently beat physically stronger players, which I never said and you just made up out of thin air. Logic isn't even in the picture when you are that confused.

lugi2000 · May 15, 2018

T2 should sign up Waldner! Imagine he as a captain

Suga D · May 15, 2018

Here's a post i wrote a while ago based on the same topic.

Xylit said:
I mean their rating, like I have said. 1900 TTR against each other, woman won't stand a chance.

Even women playing in Bundesliga with a TTR of 2200 can struggle against men with a TTR below 2000. Maybe the difference between men and women gets bigger the higher the level gets as table tennis gets more physical there. But even in amateur classes you can't compare the two sexes. If there are tournaments with both in one draw the women usually will participate in the class with men one or two leagues below them. And they still can't win.

I am from Baden-Württemberg, women are now allowed to participate in men teams additionally (still in women teams as well). They are seeded according to their TTR. Not a single woman from my club has won a game so far, they lost against men with 100 TTR points less and even worse.

I was talking about men and women with equal ratings against each other. Not woman vs man with a few hundred points less. It only makes sense to compare the best female player to one of the best male players and not to a random pips player. Moreover, rumors say that the male players there had to imitate styles of female players to prepare the female CNT players for OG.

Comparing male and female players with equal rating does not make sense at all!

Suga D said:
This really might be your personal view based on your experience, but i think Gangarth's post got burried a little.
Maybe because of language barrier, so maybe i can explain others what it's about.

It is about the stereotype male sexist remark that men that don't even play on a very high level themselves are bragging how they could have an easy time playing in the “Damen-Bundesliga“ the highest women's class in Germany.
One guy from Bad Driburg got so tired of the same old 60+ vets bragging how they would make ladies have a hard time against sharp backspin balls that he set up two teams with players of nearly equal ratings.
When setting up the teams he thought that the men should be rated hundred points lower to get some close and exciting matches.
Afterwards he didn't think so anymore
[Emoji6]
and said the ratings are pretty equal!

The men's team's rating was about 90pts lower than Bad Driburg's women and now guess what happened.

Yap, the women won 9:4 (!!!) over the men!!
[Emoji2][Emoji23]

Gangarth said:
https://www.mytischtennis.de/public...-mann--bad-driburg-siegt-im-geschlechterkampf

rainneverever · May 16, 2018

CNT did have men (B team) vs women (A team) formal warm-up match before. Best women players can beat men's team B.

2008 http://sports.sohu.com/20080418/n256386547.shtml
Wang Nan 2-3 Yan An
Guo Yue 1-3 Fang Bo
Li Xiaoxia 3-1 Song Hongyuan
Wang Nan 0-3 Fang Bo

2016 https://sports.qq.com/a/20140909/001291.htm
Li Xiaoxia 4-2 Ren Hao
Ding Ning 4-1 Yan Sheng

They also had men (A team) vs women (A team) sometimes.
https://sports.qq.com/a/20140909/001291.htm
2014 men's team started with 0:4 or 6:8 or 8:9. Some results:
Ding Ning 11:13 Xu Xin
Chen Meng 9:11 Wang Hao (Chen Meng was leading 7:2)
Li Xiaoxia vs Fan Zhendong (FZD won)
Liu Shiwen vs Zhou Yu (LSW won!!!!!)
Zhu Yuling vs Zhang Jike (ZJK won)
Li Xiaoxia vs Wang Hao (no result, likely WH won)

rainneverever · May 16, 2018

Just in case you don't know Ren Hao, he beat XX twice in the past CTTSL. He is ranked #16 in the past CTTSL, higher than Xu Chenhao, Yu Ziyang, Wang Chuqin and etc.
Yan Sheng is ranked #32.
http://cttsl.sports.cn/grpm/

iammaru · May 16, 2018

Ding Ning or LSW, especially Ding Ning is good enough to compete with men, not the top 10 or top 20 obviously. She would have a good chance vs most men outside top 50.
Harimoto at 12 proves that you don't need much power to win some top 100 men, his forehand was very weak at that time and he could already beat top 100 players with his BH and early timing. Strength is overrated. And girls are not slow, they are super fast, yes, they lack power but if they have better touch, reflexes, serves, placement, timing, etc. than male players, they can beat them for sure.
Unfortunately, you can't find enough girls like Ding Ning or LSW to make women vs men possible at T2 APAC.

lugi2000 · May 16, 2018

rainneverever said:
CNT did have men (B team) vs women (A team) formal warm-up match before. Best women players can beat men's team B.

2008 http://sports.sohu.com/20080418/n256386547.shtml
Wang Nan 2-3 Yan An
Guo Yue 1-3 Fang Bo
Li Xiaoxia 3-1 Song Hongyuan
Wang Nan 0-3 Fang Bo

2016 https://sports.qq.com/a/20140909/001291.htm
Li Xiaoxia 4-2 Ren Hao
Ding Ning 4-1 Yan Sheng

They also had men (A team) vs women (A team) sometimes.
https://sports.qq.com/a/20140909/001291.htm
2014 men's team started with 0:4 or 6:8 or 8:9. Some results:
Ding Ning 11:13 Xu Xin
Chen Meng 9:11 Wang Hao (Chen Meng was leading 7:2)
Li Xiaoxia vs Fan Zhendong (FZD won)
Liu Shiwen vs Zhou Yu (LSW won!!!!!)
Zhu Yuling vs Zhang Jike (ZJK won)
Li Xiaoxia vs Wang Hao (no result, likely WH won)

LSW beat Zhou Yu. Is there any youtube matches of these games rain?

usualsuspect · May 16, 2018

Brs said:
I wasn't replying to you. Did you read mrk's post saying every top 100 man would crush DN easily because they are all stronger and faster than her? That's what I was replying to.

And I suggest you stop mentioning logic in your posts if you can't tell the difference between an assertion that physically weaker players can sometimes beat stronger players in table tennis, which is what I said using Harinoto as an example, and asserting that weaker players will consistently beat physically stronger players, which I never said and you just made up out of thin air. Logic isn't even in the picture when you are that confused.

So what's your point? You want T2 to consistently pit clearly weaker players against superior players in hopes that the weaker players might win? If that's want you want to see, then good for you. I prefer more evenly matched games, that's why everyone is debating whether mixed-gender match is a good idea.

usualsuspect · May 16, 2018

ILoveTT said:
LSW beat Zhou Yu. Is there any youtube matches of these games rain?

I am really surprised too that Zhou Yu lost to LSW. But this was 4 years ago. Also Zhou Yu and Yan An aren't known for being powerful players. Zhou Yu is good at borrowing power from opponents (you can't borrow power if there isn't much to start with) and Yan An focuses on close-to-table quick attacks (if the opponent can read your tactics, then you are toast). So I guess it makes sense. I can see them being defeated by good female players.

rainneverever · May 17, 2018

ILoveTT said:
LSW beat Zhou Yu. Is there any youtube matches of these games rain?

Only news report, but ZY started 0:4 LSW. I think it was only 1 game.

Loopadoop · May 17, 2018

There were distinct competitive differences in last year's league for both men and women, so it shouldn't make any difference to play mixed genders this year or the future.

Raylazyfo · May 17, 2018

Suga D said:
Here's a post i wrote a while ago based on the same topic.

Yes but the men who compete in T2 are not over 60!

I agree that Men vs Women matches would be entertaining in some cases, but if we are honest the men would win 90% of the time, and every match that is Male vs Female is a match that could have been Male vs Male or Female vs Female.

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