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    #21
    I shake my head and wonder.

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    #22
    Timo Boll can also hit very hard and has one of the best spinny balls in the world but he has a short stroke.
    CNT players have a different technique, they hit the ball "by the legs" and this is very powerful. So they need a linear rubber. TB hit with his forearm and his wrist, this short stroke is not so powerful so you must play a really fast/powerful rubber.
    When CNT players like Fan Zhendong or Ma Long are playing the forehand topspin you see a fluidly motion and it looks like they don't use any force.

    Back to the question:
    Chinese rubber has a catapult effect but only the sponge not the topsheet.
    When you hit harder with a CN rubber you must hit it as a hard topspin, not flat.
    A flat hit with CN rubbers is much more difficult than with tensor rubbers.
    For a smash they use the backhand rubber because the CN rubber is so tacky and they will overhit.

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    #23
    I'll try to describe what I think is the diference.

    I use a chinese rubber on FH (Palio Hadou 40+), and my practice partners use euro rubbers, when they tryed my racket they said "hell this is fast, I cant put 2 consecutive topspins on the table".

    The thing is, this rubber has a little of catapult and is not hard,grips the ball like hell, serve and receive is mid-slow, once you start to topspin, the ball starts to kick.

    When you use euro rubbers and make the same stoke with chinese rubbers, the ball goes out because they arent used to give that much spin on the ball, they really cant control the ball that well with a straight hit on the ball, you must put spin on it.

    When I give my racket to someone that puts good spin on the ball even using the euro rubbers, they can control it and like it.

    It's easier to use the euro rubbers because you dont need to spin that much and they still go, but with chinese rubbers you can put much more spin and the ball goes lower, and more agressive.

    When smashing, they both give good speed, but I think it's a little more safe to make it with the euro rubber, again, flat hit is not the best thing to do when using chinese rubbers.

    Why I use chinese rubber and not euro rubber?

    Because serve and receive are more agressive, 1st top spin is more agressive, as I play very close to the table, is easier for me to control the arc of the ball.

    Euro rubbers are way more safe when attacking dead and half long balls, but are not that agressive.

    I still can use both, and enjoy palying, but I like the feel of chinese rubbers and the low arc on the FH.

    The Following 2 Users Like OrienteTT's Post:

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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by gollllum
    Hey everone!
    I am playing and thinking about Chinese rubber for a while and there are some things i dont understand.
    My Basic Information was always, that Chinese rubber is very hard, has nearly no catapult, but extremly high spin. I have been talking with a lot of People about that and yesterday a friend told me about a professionel German Player who had the Chance to play with Ma Longs racket. The Problem was, that it was soooo much too fast, that he was not even close to play normal shots. And then there is also this interview by Timo Boll where he complains about everyone boosting their rubber and that they become so unbelievable fast. In this interview he said that "if the chinese take my racket with their movement and power, then the ball will fall down on their side of the table".
    So the conclusion ist, all this boosted chinese rubber is super fast, much faster then even Tenergy.
    I know, they are professionels and they Train everyday. But still i wonder, why i should Play with a H3 Neo, which is not really fast even when i use my full Body for the stroke. It has even that Little catapult that every stroke which is not perfectly done (and in a match thats just not normal) wont go over the net.
    I dont want a rubber as fast as Ma Longs, but does it make sence to Play a rubber which is completly different in its general skills? So my final Question ist:
    Isnt a normal medium-hard rubber with some good catapult like a MX-S or a Vega Japan much closer to Ma Longs rubber than a normal H3 Neo??

    Maybe i am all wrong, thank you for your thaughts!
    Note that Ma Long uses one of the rubbers an Hurricane 3 made with Nittaku's Japanese sponge. Nittaku has a partnership and they make sponges with DHS rubbers. Also, let's not forget that brands use players as a front to sell products, in reality they use other material. the case of FAN Zhendong who uses Viscaria with the fist of the Stiga 😉

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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ADurao
    Note that Ma Long uses one of the rubbers an Hurricane 3 made with Nittaku's Japanese sponge. Nittaku has a partnership and they make sponges with DHS rubbers. Also, let's not forget that brands use players as a front to sell products, in reality they use other material. the case of FAN Zhendong who uses Viscaria with the fist of the Stiga 😉

    Actually, Fan Zhendong was confirmed to be using the Viscaria blade without the Stiga Infinity VPS handle in the Chinese trials.


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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by futureman39

    Actually, Fan Zhendong was confirmed to be using the Viscaria blade without the Stiga Infinity VPS handle in the Chinese trials.

    This one did not know, that he assumed this in the Chinese championship! in any case the rubber that ma long, xu xin and FAN Zhendong use are admittedly made in Japan with Japanese and non-Chinese sponges and are by Nittaku. People like me buy the Hurricane 3 neo and after sticking it on the blade the ball doesn't reach the other side 🤣🤣🤣 (I'm exaggerating)

    https://tabletennis-reference.com/rubber/detail/815

    Made in Japan by Nittaku

  7. lodro is online now
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ansen Chan
    I would like to know if h3 is worth trying or should I try like sanwei target national. I don’t like tensor FH (tenergy mx-p) since it was too fast. Is genesis in between????


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    this is the """Sales-dribble""" from DHS........................well I'll be damned but for a change a manufacturer does not promise to make you into an Olympic champion but gives a straight and realistic description of its product. I do recommend the product, even un-boosted the rubber delivers.

    """""""Hurricane 3 was designed for the players who mainly adopt control method or have relatively weak attack power when playing 40mm ball. The rubber can reduce a feeling of ponderousness when you strengthen power and create a long arc, which benefits the ball control and exerts fast attack and loop drive at near table."""""

    Last edited by lodro; 07-03-2021 at 11:00 PM.

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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by OrienteTT
    I'll try to describe what I think is the diference.

    I use a chinese rubber on FH (Palio Hadou 40+), and my practice partners use euro rubbers, when they tryed my racket they said "hell this is fast, I cant put 2 consecutive topspins on the table".

    The thing is, this rubber has a little of catapult and is not hard,grips the ball like hell, serve and receive is mid-slow, once you start to topspin, the ball starts to kick.

    When you use euro rubbers and make the same stoke with chinese rubbers, the ball goes out because they arent used to give that much spin on the ball, they really cant control the ball that well with a straight hit on the ball, you must put spin on it.

    When I give my racket to someone that puts good spin on the ball even using the euro rubbers, they can control it and like it.

    It's easier to use the euro rubbers because you dont need to spin that much and they still go, but with chinese rubbers you can put much more spin and the ball goes lower, and more agressive.

    When smashing, they both give good speed, but I think it's a little more safe to make it with the euro rubber, again, flat hit is not the best thing to do when using chinese rubbers.

    Why I use chinese rubber and not euro rubber?

    Because serve and receive are more agressive, 1st top spin is more agressive, as I play very close to the table, is easier for me to control the arc of the ball.

    Euro rubbers are way more safe when attacking dead and half long balls, but are not that agressive.

    I still can use both, and enjoy palying, but I like the feel of chinese rubbers and the low arc on the FH.
    have you ever tried Japanese rubers? 😉
    Last edited by ADurao; 07-03-2021 at 11:28 PM.

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    #29
    WYSIWYG made in Japan What You See Is What You Get
    WYSISAC made in China What You See Is A Crap
    Last edited by igorponger; 07-05-2021 at 04:30 PM.

  10. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by igorponger
    WYSIWYG made in Japan What You See Is What You Get
    WYSISAC made in China What You See Is A Crap

    I think the latter is a little bit mean, nationalistic and toxic. Not to say that it would be rather WYSIAC not WYSISAC, so it is incorrect.


  11. Shifu is offline
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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ADurao
    Note that Ma Long uses one of the rubbers an Hurricane 3 made with Nittaku's Japanese sponge. Nittaku has a partnership and they make sponges with DHS rubbers. Also, let's not forget that brands use players as a front to sell products, in reality they use other material. the case of FAN Zhendong who uses Viscaria with the fist of the Stiga 😉
    Sorry but that’s just BS. If you can’t get enough speed out of H3, then you’re using it wrong. Neo sponge, when boosted, can be very fast, especially the harder versions like 41 or more degrees. But to access that power, you must have good technique and fitness.

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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    There are some interesting comments above.
    First, most of the stuff you read or hear is hype or myth.

    The commercial Chinese rubbers have little "catapult". I agree that commercial H3 rubber is not fast or spinny without speed glue. I bought a H3 commercial and speed glued it just to see how it would play I wasn't impressed. It is too much hassle for an effect that doesn't last long. I am very sure it is the Chinese players that make the Chinese rubbers spinny with their strokes. In the video of Fan Zhendong I did not see that much top spin. They were hitting the ball from too far back to apply a lot of speed and spin. Speed will come at the expense of spin or spin at the expense of speed.

    My last coach, from Tianjin CN, used a TB ALC with H3 national FH and T05 BH. I played with his paddle. It was good. H3 national isn't dead like H3 commercial. I still had to put some effort into the swing to get speed or spin out of it. I has S2 on both sides of a TBS at the time. I don't think there was that much difference in the paddles. There was a lot of difference between me and the coach as I was 3 times older and the coach went to a ping pong academy instead of high school. This was the significant difference.

    Ditto, the comment about slower CN rubbers are OK for 3rd ball attacks. In this case the player is close to the table and speed is not as important as keeping the ball on the table with topspin. When back from the table the ball will slow down a lot due to air friction. The ball slows down by about half for every 5 meters.

    Most of the energy used to hit the ball is used to move the player and paddle. Only a small percentage is transferred to the ball.

    "Speed will come at the expense of spin or spin at the expense of speed."

    Wrong assumption build on "general" myths.

    THis is NOT true!

    The Following User Likes langel's Post:

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  13. lodro is online now
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    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by langel

    "Speed will come at the expense of spin or spin at the expense of speed."

    Wrong assumption build on "general" myths.

    THis is NOT true!


    I agree, because this statement : """"Speed will come at the expense of spin or spin at the expense of speed.""""" will literally translate into:
    Highest speed can be achieved if we whack the ball with the square blade and no spin at all.


  14. ttarc is offline
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    #34
    Quote Originally Posted by langel

    "Speed will come at the expense of spin or spin at the expense of speed."

    Wrong assumption build on "general" myths.

    THis is NOT true!

    No, this is true. It's just the law of conservation of energy at work. E_kinetic = E_translational + E_rotational so if I want to increase the speed of the ball than there will be less energy to spin the ball and vice versa.

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    #35

    ADurao;347694
    This one did not know, that he assumed this in the Chinese championship! in any case the rubber that ma long, xu xin and FAN Zhendong use are admittedly made in Japan with Japanese and non-Chinese sponges and are by Nittaku. People like me buy the Hurricane 3 neo and after sticking it on the blade the ball doesn't reach the other side 🤣🤣🤣 (I'm exaggerating)

    https://tabletennis-reference.com/rubber/detail/815

    Made in Japan by Nittaku

    The sponsorship between Stiga and FZD simply ended and it is probably better this way. No need to pretend those players use certain blades.


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    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ttarc
    No, this is true. It's just the law of conservation of energy at work. E_kinetic = E_translational + E_rotational so if I want to increase the speed of the ball than there will be less energy to spin the ball and vice versa.

    No, this is not true!

    It's a "general" myth.

    I spoke a lot about THresholds and margins.

    i that case it's more about THresholds.

    EVery rubber has it own speed-to-spin Thresholds and for Every rubber the Dynamic Max Spin Graph is Speed Threshold Dependant.

    No COR graph would give you that info, nor the "speed" ratings.

    And not about "visual" to judge what stroke has more or less spin.






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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by gollllum
    Hey everone!
    I am playing and thinking about Chinese rubber for a while and there are some things i dont understand.
    My Basic Information was always, that Chinese rubber is very hard, has nearly no catapult, but extremly high spin. I have been talking with a lot of People about that and yesterday a friend told me about a professionel German Player who had the Chance to play with Ma Longs racket. The Problem was, that it was soooo much too fast, that he was not even close to play normal shots. And then there is also this interview by Timo Boll where he complains about everyone boosting their rubber and that they become so unbelievable fast. In this interview he said that "if the chinese take my racket with their movement and power, then the ball will fall down on their side of the table".
    So the conclusion ist, all this boosted chinese rubber is super fast, much faster then even Tenergy.
    I know, they are professionels and they Train everyday. But still i wonder, why i should Play with a H3 Neo, which is not really fast even when i use my full Body for the stroke. It has even that Little catapult that every stroke which is not perfectly done (and in a match thats just not normal) wont go over the net.
    I dont want a rubber as fast as Ma Longs, but does it make sence to Play a rubber which is completly different in its general skills? So my final Question ist:
    Isnt a normal medium-hard rubber with some good catapult like a MX-S or a Vega Japan much closer to Ma Longs rubber than a normal H3 Neo??

    Maybe i am all wrong, thank you for your thaughts!
    We cannot alter the original meaning of the words. A rubber such as Hurricane 3 neo (normal) does not have a catapult effect even with 10 malogs holding the blade. Yes, they can originate more speed by giving effect, especially the excellent players. But the rubber don t have a catapult effect
    Last edited by ADurao; 07-05-2021 at 10:26 PM.

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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro


    I agree, because this statement : """"Speed will come at the expense of spin or spin at the expense of speed.""""" will literally translate into:
    Highest speed can be achieved if we whack the ball with the square blade and no spin at all.

    Yes.

    And to be not only mentioned, but figured, tested /eventually/, analysed and rememberd - MAX Spin is always a function of a SPeed THreshold and ALL MAX SPINs are measured ABove these THresholds. There is NO MAX Spin bellow these thresholds. Rubber Max speed and/or COR has Nothing to do with that.
    The Really Working factors are "hidden" in the particular rubber characteristics /many, so many, that NO player has to get to the "engineering" department of the R&D, just test, evaluate according your level and experience and use it according your level and experience, EVENTUALLY trying to find your Dream SET UP/.
    That's for Some Thresholds, there are many others.
    For the Player - find your Margins and try to keep the play inbetween.


  19. lodro is online now
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    #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ADurao
    We cannot alter the original meaning of the words. A rubber such as Hurricane 3 neo (normal) does not have a catapult effect even with 10 malogs holding the blade. Yes, they can originate more speed by giving effect, especially the excellent players. But the rubber don t have a catapult effect


    BOLLOCKS !!!! 😂
    Absolutely any TT rubber has a catapult effect. Unlike an ice-hockey puck, they probably don't have one.
    I had to take off my neo 37 of one of my blades because i could not handle the bouncy bounce effect.. 😀

    I


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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by ttarc
    No, this is true. It's just the law of conservation of energy at work. E_kinetic = E_translational + E_rotational so if I want to increase the speed of the ball than there will be less energy to spin the ball and vice versa.
    Quote Originally Posted by langel
    [p]No, this is not true!
    It's a "general" myth.
    ttarc is correct.



    I spoke a lot about THresholds and margins.

    i that case it's more about THresholds.

    EVery rubber has it own speed-to-spin Thresholds and for Every rubber the Dynamic Max Spin Graph is Speed Threshold Dependant.
    What is a threshold? Making up new words now I see. Define threshold with an equation. I can define COR with an equation. I can define the hardness of a sponge with an equation. Now define threshold.


    No COR graph would give you that info, nor the "speed" ratings.

    And not about "visual" to judge what stroke has more or less spin.
    This is tangential and normal COR. if you flat hit the ball you only need to worry about normal COR. If you make eccentric contact with the ball then both CORs come into play The more you brush, the more important the tangential COR is relative to the normal COR.

    I don't like the term catapult effect. The reason why that a catapult is not a rebound. I prefer trampoline effect.
    Can't anybody see the difference?!

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