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A lot of the post is way too general to mean anything.
1. The general advice for a player who wants to play an allround offensive game was to start with an ALL+/OFF- blade with 2.0mm rubbers for looping. Maybe tensors in the modern era.
2. As the player becomes more advanced, they can change the blade but keep the rubbers or change both.
3. The most important thing is to not use a setup that is so fast you can't feel the nuances of your technique. So once you are not using an OFF+ blade, there is a lot of room in between.
4. According to Adam Bobrow, Ma Long does not use Max thickness on his forehand. Give that some thought.
5. In the end, as you get better, you get a better idea of what you like. But starting out with anything that is too fast doesn't let you have an idea of the vibrations your strokes are causing and how to reduce the vibrations to get a better stroke.
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hmm,
should be a lot harder to define "too fast" equipment nowadays than in the past. On the contrary, so easy to define "too slow" equipment.
Remember that what considered all rounder back then is a lot slower than current version.
Back then, Sriver is ultimate fast looping rubber,
then its became the reference all rounder rubber during Bryce era,
Birth of Tenergy era push Sriver to Blocker Driver rubber,
I am sure in the future, Tenergy would became reference all rounder rubber
the same with the notion all rounder itself,
Back then, I am too young to remember,
After then, Mark V and Sriver,
Currently, Sriver G3 and Bluefire JP3
In the future, I can't guess yet, but surely something faster. My bet is a member of Tenergy class.
Thickness also play part,
back then, all rounder thickness is 1.3 mm, then 1.5 mm, then 1.7 mm to 1.8 mm, and currently many advocate 1.9 mm to 2.0 mm.
And also blades, went from Grubba to Viscaria, and from wood to carbon.
And to things that this happen while so many "coaches" that advocate to start slow exist. [emoji14]
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should be a lot harder to define "too fast" equipment nowadays than in the past. On the contrary, so easy to define "too slow" equipment.
Remember that what considered all rounder back then is a lot slower than current version.
Back then, Sriver is ultimate fast looping rubber,
then its became the reference all rounder rubber during Bryce era,
Birth of Tenergy era push Sriver to Blocker Driver rubber,
I am sure in the future, Tenergy would became reference all rounder rubber
the same with the notion all rounder itself,
Back then, I am too young to remember,
After then, Mark V and Sriver,
Currently, Sriver G3 and Bluefire JP3
In the future, I can't guess yet, but surely something faster. My bet is a member of Tenergy class.
Thickness also play part,
back then, all rounder thickness is 1.3 mm, then 1.5 mm, then 1.7 mm to 1.8 mm, and currently many advocate 1.9 mm to 2.0 mm.
And also blades, went from Grubba to Viscaria, and from wood to carbon.
And to things that this happen while so many "coaches" that advocate to start slow exist. [emoji14]
Sent from my I7D using Tapatalk
says
I would recommend all wood.
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At my club all the kids, and I do mean ALL the kids, use TB ALC. That with T05 for the better kids and Tibhar Genius for the 'almost there' kids.
(Edit: oh wait 2 of them have a Li Ping Kitex, which is a really cute blade btw)
Not that this proves or disproves anything. It's just how it is. I think, seeing as others in this thread also noticed this trend at their clubs, that given this (anecdotal) evidence the 5-ply may be a thing of the past.
(Edit: oh wait 2 of them have a Li Ping Kitex, which is a really cute blade btw)
Not that this proves or disproves anything. It's just how it is. I think, seeing as others in this thread also noticed this trend at their clubs, that given this (anecdotal) evidence the 5-ply may be a thing of the past.
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Depends on the region, in the US the coaching is different to Europe and that is different to Asia.
You go to Taipei, all juniors use the stiffest blades. You go to Hungary, all the juniors use OSP Virtuoso/Euro Korbel.
The only trend for certain is towards faster setups due to 1. slower ball/no speed glue and 2. the new style of play (off the bounce).
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I would recommend all wood.
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Yeah, that's probably the reason. The kids wanna be like harimoto. They've been shouting a lot more recently too...
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How about you stop being salty, and stop assuming all juniors behave like they are in your single US club?
Good one
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I would recommend all wood.
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GOOD ONE! ask the kids in your club which junior in the world today they most want to play like I guess.
And regardless of that, who even says I was talking about anyone OUTSIDE of my club, you saltminer?
No need to ask, I already forgive you
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1. "The kids wanna be like harimoto." - assumption
2. "you saltminer" - person attack? Good one, however I'm not here to provoke or stir the pot, just stating facts.
3. "ask the kids in your club which junior in the world today they most want to play like I guess." - you can refer to me as a kid at 18, I don't want to play like Harimoto - IF you want to go off anecdotes which isn't a good way tog o
Ma Long has been more or less #1 before and after the plastic ball. My point is, the optimal style of play has changed more towards off the bounce play, which favours equipment with a quicker rebound.
!
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I would recommend all wood.
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1) Yes, it was your silly assumption that I'm talking about the kids outside of my club, which is what you're not getting. I was also talking about the same kids in the post before, in regards to their equipment. So again, no need to ask, I forgive you for making incorrect assumptions and then calling me salty for your own misconception.
2) Insanity. Did you already forget you started it with the salty 1 post ago? Geniuses....
3) You're not a junior nor is my supposition strictly anecdotal in its premise. It is simply unproven. But if you ask the kids at your club which junior in the world they'd most like to play like, you already have something perhaps a bit more statistical than an anecdote
Yeah, ma long is amazing and off the bounce play is indeed the trend and indeed favors quicker rebound.
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1) Yes, it was your silly assumption that I'm talking about the kids outside of my club, which is what you're not getting. I was also talking about the same kids in the post before, in regards to their equipment. So again, no need to ask, I forgive you for making incorrect assumptions and then calling me salty for your own misconception. - ok but maybe it was a bit ambiguous
2) Insanity. Did you already forget you started it with the salty 1 post ago? Geniuses.... - not personal
3) You're not a junior nor is my supposition strictly anecdotal in its premise. It is simply unproven. But if you ask the kids at your club which junior in the world they'd most like to play like, you already have something perhaps a bit more statistical than an anecdote - and what if I said to you that nobody cares for harimoto and prefer ml/fzd instead? My group chat never talks about harimoto being their favourite player, but it is an anecdote. if you are a statistician you know that even a sample size of 50+ may not be high enough esp. if it's in the same location
Yeah, ma long is amazing and off the bounce play is indeed the trend and indeed favors quicker rebound. - precisely and I think that is the reason why very little juniors start with primorac and srivers now. the game has truly moved on and fast rubbers before are now slower and less effective for the new game
2) Insanity. Did you already forget you started it with the salty 1 post ago? Geniuses.... - not personal
3) You're not a junior nor is my supposition strictly anecdotal in its premise. It is simply unproven. But if you ask the kids at your club which junior in the world they'd most like to play like, you already have something perhaps a bit more statistical than an anecdote - and what if I said to you that nobody cares for harimoto and prefer ml/fzd instead? My group chat never talks about harimoto being their favourite player, but it is an anecdote. if you are a statistician you know that even a sample size of 50+ may not be high enough esp. if it's in the same location
Yeah, ma long is amazing and off the bounce play is indeed the trend and indeed favors quicker rebound. - precisely and I think that is the reason why very little juniors start with primorac and srivers now. the game has truly moved on and fast rubbers before are now slower and less effective for the new game
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time to ask ITTF for lighter "more affected by air" ball?
That would widen the gap between slow and fast ball, giving chopper and blocker slight edge.
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That would widen the gap between slow and fast ball, giving chopper and blocker slight edge.
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Anyone reading my posts over the years knows my stance on this.
Pundits are a-holies when they state that the ONLY way to start and grow is with ALL class blade and 1.7 sponge. (but their way has a history of working)
I have seen new adult players pickup a Schlager Carbon and make USATT 1500+ in a year.
I have always said to get something at first capable of doing everything (So maybe I am kinda like the a-holey pundits ??) and learn the fundamentals, then later, get gear that is middle of the road for the "zone" of appropriateness. Then later, move to the "Sweet Spot".
Equipment will not help you read spin, get in a crouch, perform footwork, know and command your strike zone, nor control grip pressure during/at impact, or tactics or tactical intelligenge...
Still, reasonably appropriate gear will help facilitate the feel for the ball and growing confidence. That counts for a LOT, but it isn't everything in the game.
Literally none of my larger weaknesses comes from my gear. I didn't start out with the "right" gear or any coaching at all, yet I developed reasonably far for starting in very late adulthood.
Gear isn't everything or the most important thing to start... but reasonably appropriate gear can help out - both right away and down the road.
Pundits are a-holies when they state that the ONLY way to start and grow is with ALL class blade and 1.7 sponge. (but their way has a history of working)
I have seen new adult players pickup a Schlager Carbon and make USATT 1500+ in a year.
I have always said to get something at first capable of doing everything (So maybe I am kinda like the a-holey pundits ??) and learn the fundamentals, then later, get gear that is middle of the road for the "zone" of appropriateness. Then later, move to the "Sweet Spot".
Equipment will not help you read spin, get in a crouch, perform footwork, know and command your strike zone, nor control grip pressure during/at impact, or tactics or tactical intelligenge...
Still, reasonably appropriate gear will help facilitate the feel for the ball and growing confidence. That counts for a LOT, but it isn't everything in the game.
Literally none of my larger weaknesses comes from my gear. I didn't start out with the "right" gear or any coaching at all, yet I developed reasonably far for starting in very late adulthood.
Gear isn't everything or the most important thing to start... but reasonably appropriate gear can help out - both right away and down the road.
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I used OFF+ blades and the argument against them is not that you can't get to 1500 in one year. It is that they don't let you feel the ball unless you have good touch and they don't encourage looping. And looping is the fastest way to get better at table tennis so you want something that encourages you to do it.
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Yeah, thats a thing I agree the most.
And thats generally the stuff in the All+ Off- region.
There are Off/Off+ blades that are very capable allrounders and with good, even exceptional feel, ballanced for everything, and really good to start with, but such blades are usually very expensive, which is a factor.
In systematic training playing with capable allrounder not only helps development, but at the same time reveals better the personal specifics, which makes it easyer to choose a future propper setup.
going back to the original statement: 'too fast equipment hinder development'
the simple answer is...
1. it doesn't matter if you got a coach
2. if no coach, then yes... because in all likelihood you can learn faster on equipment that's not 'too fast', thus having 'too fast' equipment 'hinders' development =)
of course, the spirit of the post suggests why not get something that's fast-ish, but NOT 'too fast', but now that's in conflict with the title, which tries to debunk the 'myth' that equipment that is 'too fast hinders development.'
so in conclusion, even the OP cannot really say that 'too fast equipment hinder development' because OP wants to convince us that fast, but NOT 'too fast' equipment should be OK for development.
so there, let's stop fighting and go back to playing!
the simple answer is...
1. it doesn't matter if you got a coach
2. if no coach, then yes... because in all likelihood you can learn faster on equipment that's not 'too fast', thus having 'too fast' equipment 'hinders' development =)
of course, the spirit of the post suggests why not get something that's fast-ish, but NOT 'too fast', but now that's in conflict with the title, which tries to debunk the 'myth' that equipment that is 'too fast hinders development.'
so in conclusion, even the OP cannot really say that 'too fast equipment hinder development' because OP wants to convince us that fast, but NOT 'too fast' equipment should be OK for development.
so there, let's stop fighting and go back to playing!
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We should also categorize the off+ blade speed people need to avoid. If those blades are in the speed of sardius, schlager carbon then those should be avoided.
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I would recommend all wood.
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Yeah I agree with this statement.
There is a very good example of this in my club, there's a guy who plays with a very fast blade and can power-drive right through weak underspin balls. And it's really a killer shot, almost always ending points outright. He really kills new players, but for years now he's never learned to spin the ball and does not advance.
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