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    1. Top | #21
      yoass is offline
      says modestly attempting kĊhaiship
      of Jeul-Tak
       
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      Quote Originally Posted by ericd937 View Post
      I disagree. The flooring beneath the table does have an impact on the bounce of the ball. If the table is sitting on soft rubber flooring that makes the ball bounce lower and rebound slower than when the table sits on a hard concrete (or similar) surface. I would argue that it is not a myth. Do you have any scientific studies on this? I would be interested to see the data.
      Being the one that made the claim, that burden of proof is onto me, not onto someone doubting it. (Well, somebody positively denying it can be considered as putting forth a claim of her own, so perhaps that's not entirely true in this case.)

      My own "proof", of course, is merely anecdotal, in the sense that it comes from my personal experience. I've played tournaments and competition matches at clubs using the same table (Tibhar Smash 28R), often even from the same batch -- because a few clubs got them "second hand" after seeing use at the 2011 WTTC (Rotterdam, ZJK FTW!).

      So, same tables, different venues, with different floors and very different bounces. Was it the ball, then? No, in most cases the clubs all used the XSF***. Was it siginificant? Yes. At some clubs, I needed to play a full foot closer to the table to even be able to reach a (long!) push or a defender's chops. Lower bounce, significantly lesser penetration. Same tables, same ball.

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    3. Top | #22
      killiegradge is offline
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      It is simple common sense to practice with whatever ball is likely to be used in the next competition. We did that 35 years ago though it was torture if you had to use Dunlop Barna or Halex balls. In those days there wasn't the same choices and there certainly werent any from Chinese manufacturers. Conditions varied wildly especially in the weekly league matches and each club chose the ball for the home games. Tables,lighting,flooring,balls and even the size of the hall used all contributed to the varying comditions and it was all about who adapted best.

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    5. Top | #23
      brokenball is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by ericd937 View Post
      I disagree. The flooring beneath the table does have an impact on the bounce of the ball. If the table is sitting on soft rubber flooring that makes the ball bounce lower and rebound slower than when the table sits on a hard concrete (or similar) surface. I would argue that it is not a myth. Do you have any scientific studies on this? I would be interested to see the data.
      Where is your proof. BTW, the ball does in theory bounce a little lower when the table is not mounted on hard cement but the difference is so small that it isn't measurable. The difference in surface across the table top accounts of the variance in bounce than what the table sits on. If you are eager to find out why look here.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeffi...of_restitution
      See the speed after impact formula.
      Use ma as the mass of the ball.
      use mb as the mass of the table alone in free space. This would be the worse case for bounce.
      Then change mb to a huge number representing the mass of the earth.
      How much does the speed change?
      Do you really think you can tell the difference?

    6. Top | #24
      yogi_bear is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by langel View Post
      I agree with this, but partially and as a tendence.
      A well done thin but aggressive brush may be twice faster and much more dangerous than a snap through the sponge.
      No i am not talking about a snap or short snapping stroke when looping. I am talking about having the same stroke with different depths of contact with the sponge. If you loop with a thin brushing stroke compared to a loop that compress the sponge more when looping, the one that has more sponge compression produces more speed.

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    8. Top | #25
      Baal is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ilia Minkin View Post
      I liked her point that in-and-out footwork for topspin is more important now because the ball stops faster on the table. I never thought about it.
      I had noticed it. But not as much if you play with a Butterfly G40+ (which will hopefully disappear before long).

    9. Top | #26
      Brs is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      I had noticed it. But not as much if you play with a Butterfly G40+ (which will hopefully disappear before long).
      What I noticed when we first switched was balls that were clearly going off the end would seem almost to stop and drop like a stone onto the endline. This was pre-ABS. Here we all had many times of stopping play and putting out a hand to catch the ball and being dismayed when it landed. But we adapted pretty fast.

    10. Top | #27
      Baal is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brs View Post
      What I noticed when we first switched was balls that were clearly going off the end would seem almost to stop and drop like a stone onto the endline. This was pre-ABS. Here we all had many times of stopping play and putting out a hand to catch the ball and being dismayed when it landed. But we adapted pretty fast.
      Yes, that took some getting used to. A month or so. I made the switch in 2014 so for me this is just normal behavior of a ball now.

    11. Top | #28
      Brs is offline
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      It's interesting what she says to explore as adaptations, but I wonder how much of it applies to recreational players even up to quite a high level. It's obviously directed at kids with aspirations to play at national team level.

    12. Top | #29
      phorkyas is offline
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      I like her factual stance. It's like the good ol' LGL: either adapt to the new or lose...

      In the club we only switched two month ago and our strongest junior who just loves the new ABS ball adapted his game so good he became club champion in the senior division. Somehow I like it, too. The adjusted playing style being more offensive, longer rallies. It's so fun to play against him, we both just ripping the ball. (I'm still not sure, what exactly changed in our game. Timing is slightly different.. - but this video gave me some ideas.)

      Yesterday in the club we hit some balls with the old celluloid again, because he'll attend a tournament where they'll still have a celluloid... and we both hated it - to some extent we could still play with our "new" style (which worked best for me when he hadn't mentioned we were playing celluloid again!), but it was sometimes dangerous to be careless about the spin, or expecting less spin.

    13. Top | #30
      Loopadoop is offline
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      Yesterday, at US National Women's Singles Semifinal match, a chopper caused a match to go to expedite by defense vs an offensive 2 wing looper, they pushed the ball for awhile. Looks like the ball hasn't affected defensive play.

    14. Top | #31
      RIPPER is offline
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      Impact of the ball means that players have to develop more physically as it takes more effort to loop, also countering had become more important now

    15. Top | #32
      jawien is offline
      says There are no quick fixes
       
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      I forgot what she said about the close to the net play. It seems it goes both ways today: banana and flips in general are easier (must be since there is less spin on the ball) and short push is not easier I think, since the ball is harder - hence more bouncy.

      My guess is, today's short game does not work in a way to prolong rallies.

      Btw, congratulations England, sorry for Sweden ..
      Last edited by jawien; 1 Week Ago at 05:33 PM.
      It's hard to find a logical explanation why they play

    16. Top | #33
      Suga D is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Loopadoop View Post
      Yesterday, at US National Women's Singles Semifinal match, a chopper caused a match to go to expedite by defense vs an offensive 2 wing looper, they pushed the ball for awhile. Looks like the ball hasn't affected defensive play.
      I think it depends much on the ball. A brandnew ABS ball will stop over the table and makes relooping more difficult, but a slick G40+ just carries too little spin.
      Took some time to not make my dropshots go long.

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