New balls and Xu Xin's penhold style

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[...] I was not impressed when someone insisted Harimoto' style suited the new ball and ML's style was outdated when Harimoto beat him in Japan Open. They completely forgot ML won the Chinese Open not so long ago with the new ball, too.

I was the proponent of the view that the new ball suites Harimoto's playing style better than i.e. Ma Long's, and still am. This does not mean ML's style is outdated, not in a sense that he is doomed to be marginalized. Although some aspects of today's tt, namely the predominant fast bh to bh exchanges do not work in his favor for sure.

As for the XX vs Harimoto match, XX was always a though opponent for the European/Jap style players. I'd like to think that his pen hold style gives him an advantage close to the net, and the dhs vs tensors control factor needs to be taken into account here as well. Another thing is his left hand plus he really dominated the receives and over the table attacks with Tomokazu.
 
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https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DHS...tar-Seamed-ABS-Balls-Plastic/32900326863.html.

DHS D40+ (ITTF ***) plastic balls of most recent origin, production date June 2018 (in orange).

Be happy

orange1.jpg
 
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https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DHS...tar-Seamed-ABS-Balls-Plastic/32900326863.html.

DHS D40+ (ITTF ***) plastic balls of most recent origin, production date June 2018 (in orange).

Be happy

cache.php

Igor, where did you get that info that those balls of newer date are different than the D40+ we all know?
I have many older D40+ and there seem to be two types, one with a really high pitched sound and the other one sounds kinda 'normal', more like NP40+. I even got 2 balls with the World Tour Stamp on it and they sound like the "normal" balls. What changed and when etc? Both ball types I have are from early 2017(!)
 
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Igor, where did you get that info that those balls of newer date are different than the D40+ we all know?
I have many older D40+ and there seem to be two types, one with a really high pitched sound and the other one sounds kinda 'normal', more like NP40+. I even got 2 balls with the World Tour Stamp on it and they sound like the "normal" balls. What changed and when etc? Both ball types I have are from early 2017(!)

Taku Arai, he keeps kind a testing log, he collected a lot of plastic balls and made some measurements on the balls, such as shell thickness and weight. According to the tests, the newer DHS balls proved to have thinner outer shell beside the earlier batches.

 
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Idk what anyone else is thinking but even with the new ball in the korean open you can tell xu xins game improved. His long rallies the ball had extreme amount of spin and side spin. Somehow from long range he has adapted to putting a lot of spin on the new ball in this open so I definitely think his game has changed for the better.
 
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All sports evolve and change over time and the winner is he/she who adapts best to the new conditions.Yes they can get some help along the way but ultimately it is about the athlete.
I remember we could choose what ball we used for our home league matches provided they were approved. One team,Ayr, (A@*) always used Dunlop Barna balls for home matches and their results were significantly better at home than away.We practiced with Barna balls the week before playing them away but they still had the upper hand.
 
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Dude, you seem to jump to strange conclusions!
Last year´s change? Maybe on amateur level, but the pros have made the switch 4 years ago.
This is silly.

Maybe i´m the only but this sounds totally fishy to me!

I think the change everyone's talking about here is the change to the new ABS plastic material. This material is slightly different from the original plastic ball. The new ABS balls are harder, bouncier, and have less spin potential than the older plastic balls.
Thought I'd clarify, just in case there's confusion.
 
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Taku Arai, he keeps kind a testing log, he collected a lot of plastic balls and made some measurements on the balls, such as shell thickness and weight. According to the tests, the newer DHS balls proved to have thinner outer shell beside the earlier batches.

mikey%20day%20snl%20GIF%20by%20Saturday%20Night%20Live-downsized_large-1.gif


The 3-star D40+ was first released in January, 2017. This video was published a whole year before that. Apparently, the balls in question were cellulose acetate DHS 40+ and DFish 40+, just by how white they are.
 
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I think the change everyone's talking about here is the change to the new ABS plastic material. This material is slightly different from the original plastic ball. The new ABS balls are harder, bouncier, and have less spin potential than the older plastic balls.
Thought I'd clarify, just in case there's confusion.

You could be right, but actually i don´t think so, ´cause many Amateur leagues in europe (or more precisely Germany) are still allowed to use Celluloid balls until end of next season, but many clubs and leagues have already made the switch to 40+ balls.

So to me it seems skateordie rather meant the switch to 40+ and he DID NOT mean the change from cellulose acetat balls to ABS balls.

cache.php


The 3-star D40+ was first released in January, 2017. This video was published a whole year before that. Apparently, the balls in question were cellulose acetate DHS 40+ and DFish 40+, just by how white they are.

Thanks for clarification, mate. I had a feeling deep down in my guts that this was just another trolling manoeuvre by our friend Igor. But it´s all good. It keeps me on my toes.
;)
 
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mikey%20day%20snl%20GIF%20by%20Saturday%20Night%20Live-downsized_large-1.gif


The 3-star D40+ was first released in January, 2017. This video was published a whole year before that. Apparently, the balls in question were cellulose acetate DHS 40+ and DFish 40+, just by how white they are.


JUST DO IT ...

You will be strongly amazed to see the actual difference between the newer balls and earlier balls.
This is the best adequate device to measure the ball shell thickness within a high accuracy 0,01mm

calliper_digital.jpg


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Dig...-Caliper-Width-Measure-Tools/32830683089.html

Be happy.
 
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JUST DO IT ...

You will be strongly amazed to see the actual difference between the newer balls and earlier balls.
This is the best adequate device to measure the ball shell thickness within a high accuracy 0,01mm

calliper_digital.jpg


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Dig...-Caliper-Width-Measure-Tools/32830683089.html

Be happy.

Nice try, buddy. But the video you were referring to was already more than enough.
No official statement from DHS in the world wide web, but Igor's got his secret information from very special sources and knows more than DHS themselves.
[Emoji12]
And now that your video has been debunked, you try another way?
Don't you think it's a bit too obvious, dude?
[Emoji23]
 
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People have been discussing how the reduced spin in the newer balls has affected the game, but I've been thinking about something lately. Isn't the spin imparted on a ball dependent on both technique AND equipment? If the newer balls have reduced spin with existing/older equipment, cant newer equipment specifically tailored to the new ball restore at the very least some portion of this aspect?


If people have less trouble with XX's spin because of the newer ball, won't this struggle return once XX switches to a paddle that imparts more spin? Isn't the "spin game" in table tennis relative? Its not how much spin you impart, its wether the spin has a negative impact on your opponent, and given the drop in spin small enough that existing stroke techniques are not deprecated, should someone like XX who relies heavily on spin not be able to regain his spin advantage?
 
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People have been discussing how the reduced spin in the newer balls has affected the game, but I've been thinking about something lately. Isn't the spin imparted on a ball dependent on both technique AND equipment? If the newer balls have reduced spin with existing/older equipment, cant newer equipment specifically tailored to the new ball restore at the very least some portion of this aspect?


If people have less trouble with XX's spin because of the newer ball, won't this struggle return once XX switches to a paddle that imparts more spin? Isn't the "spin game" in table tennis relative? Its not how much spin you impart, its wether the spin has a negative impact on your opponent, and given the drop in spin small enough that existing stroke techniques are not deprecated, should someone like XX who relies heavily on spin not be able to regain his spin advantage?

Probably yes, to a degree. Otherwise more people would quit spinning and switch to flat hitting with SP.
But one needs to adjust the strategy at the same time too, 'cause the balls behave so differently and sometimes just sit on the table waiting to get killed.
One cannot just ignore the specs and pretend it's a cellball.
 
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Probably yes, to a degree. Otherwise more people would quit spinning and switch to flat hitting with SP.
But one needs to adjust the strategy at the same time too, 'cause the balls behave so differently and sometimes just sit on the table waiting to get killed.
One cannot just ignore the specs and pretend it's a cellball.

Definitely agree with you. I think what interests me is the question, "why not?". Off the top of my head, I wonder if perhaps the increase in the weight of the ball accounts to an extent an increase in shot consistency near the table? Clearly Harimoto struggled with XX's spin (and wether that is due to wetness behind the ears or some other factors is a separate argument itself), so this much is sure that one can't simply dismiss my earlier point and say it is unequivocally not the case or that XX's style is obsolete. What then, is causing more and more players to attack the ball earlier on? Is it the ball itself, or a natural evolution in the game? Or a mix of both? How common were close to the table off the bounce hitters during the different eras of the ball?
 
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Definitely agree with you. I think what interests me is the question, "why not?". Off the top of my head, I wonder if perhaps the increase in the weight of the ball accounts to an extent an increase in shot consistency near the table? Clearly Harimoto struggled with XX's spin (and wether that is due to wetness behind the ears or some other factors is a separate argument itself), so this much is sure that one can't simply dismiss my earlier point and say it is unequivocally not the case or that XX's style is obsolete. What then, is causing more and more players to attack the ball earlier on? Is it the ball itself, or a natural evolution in the game? Or a mix of both? How common were close to the table off the bounce hitters during the different eras of the ball?

The spin of the ball does not depend only on the equipment, but also on ball's surface and aerodynamics features. It might be hard to compensate it with paddles and rubbers. Besides, I guess Fabian noticed that the abs ball looses lots of it's spin also after the bounce on the table.
 
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So I think what's most amazing about this change in the men's style is that it's happening too fast for people to keep up. I may be completely wrong but no matter what level, most people have fairly reasoned and intelligent ideas about how the game has changed in terms of equipment and how the game is likely to be in the future. Harimoto therefore, is a hyper accelerated case, being that he's played most of his competitive table tennis life without speed glue in the plastic ball era etc but with a coach who has very clear ideas about how best to play in the current equipment climate. What I think is kind of weird is that to me, Harimoto plays like women do stylistically. very close to the table, high reaction, micro adjustment, BH heavy, offensive etc. I think that this advantage is largely in part to being apart of a strategic hegemony. that if you're the preeminent advocate of a style not fully incorporated by the rest of the community (HT), then there's a higher chance of success and it's easy to say it's because of equipment. I think people are right, PH FH dominant play (old school) and Def play might suffer. But, I don't think the Harimoto style is gonna last forever if equipment were to stay the same. Noone really knows what's optimal they're just applying some reasoning, train someone for 10 years see if it's any good on a super talented individual. My bet honestly, is that no one will touch FZD stylistically and he will be the greatest ever. but i could be wrong. I also have a super biased ideal of how PH is always optimal to SH, but that's obviously a whole 'nother debate.
 
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