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    1. Top | #1
      Bardock is online now
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      Help with strokes angle problem

      I'm going to post a short video of my strokes and I just want to highlight a problem that I have. You can see it clearly in the backhand stroke and my problem is that when I do a stroke my racket angle goes down or closes what ever you want to call it. I can't seem to keep my racket angle constant it just closes all of a sudden and makes my shot inconsistent. So does anyone here have any advice or tips in order to keep the racket angle consistent like how good players do on video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctBefuwYBng

    2. Top | #2
      UpSideDownCarl is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bardock View Post
      I'm going to post a short video of my strokes and I just want to highlight a problem that I have. You can see it clearly in the backhand stroke and my problem is that when I do a stroke my racket angle goes down or closes what ever you want to call it. I can't seem to keep my racket angle constant it just closes all of a sudden and makes my shot inconsistent. So does anyone here have any advice or tips in order to keep the racket angle consistent like how good players do on video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctBefuwYBng
      The ball is way too high on the bounce so you are slapping it down. There is nothing wrong with that. But all you are doing is slapping a high ball and you won't learn much from that. Try and make the ball bounce a little lower than the net so you have to arc over the net with spin.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezBW4kePyrc

      This exercise would be more useful. In the video I am letting the ball bounce 2x. The second bounce is lower. Then I am spinning the ball so my stroke followthrough is forward and up. Because you are hitting a ball that is unrealistically high, you are coming over the top of the ball as you smack to make sure the ball goes down. You could still loop that, and have a loop stroke. But there is really no reason to. And for that ball, what you are doing and how your racket closes over the ball really is not a problem.

      But if you are trying to learn to loop and spin the ball, that will not help you because what you are doing is a flat hit.
      Spin Everything.

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    4. Top | #3
      Bardock is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      The ball is way too high on the bounce so you are slapping it down. There is nothing wrong with that. But all you are doing is slapping a high ball and you won't learn much from that. Try and make the ball bounce a little lower than the net so you have to arc over the net with spin.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezBW4kePyrc

      This exercise would be more useful. In the video I am letting the ball bounce 2x. The second bounce is lower. Then I am spinning the ball so my stroke followthrough is forward and up. Because you are hitting a ball that is unrealistically high, you are coming over the top of the ball as you smack to make sure the ball goes down. You could still loop that, and have a loop stroke. But there is really no reason to. And for that ball, what you are doing and how your racket closes over the ball really is not a problem.

      But if you are trying to learn to loop and spin the ball, that will not help you because what you are doing is a flat hit.
      I did two bounces and the ball was really low but the same thing still happened. My bat angle moved down while doing the stroke I don't know whats causing it.

    5. Top | #4
      talbon is offline
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      I don't understand your question. This makes no sense:

      Quote Originally Posted by Bardock View Post
      I can't seem to keep my racket angle constant it just closes all of a sudden and makes my shot inconsistent. So does anyone here have any advice or tips in order to keep the racket angle consistent
      Who do you think is holding your bat and making it move? If you think your stroke is wrong, then fix it. Fix it = stop doing the same thing over and over again. Do something different until it's right. What do you expect from us exactly? Or you want to keep doing it wrong but suddenly get a good outcome for no reason?

      I'm being harsh because I believe it to be the more helpful answer here.

      Ask somebody to have a knock with you (or hit against a wall or folded table), very slowly so that it is comfortable for you to correct your stroke, and keep doing simple, controlled strokes until it becomes second nature, increasing the pace as you go.

      From your video it is very hard to comment on your original post. It's 10s long, I'm not sure what we get to see. Maybe the format of the video just harms you. What comes to mind instantly are your grip, your stance and your flip-flops.

      Anyway, if you struggle with control and racket angle on your backhand, maybe just work on your flat backhand as shown in here https://youtu.be/92NWiTyfc4k?t=11m37s (he's doing it with shakehand a bit earlier in the video - by the way, there are a lot of good videos with Kim Taek Soo and Yu Nam Kyu showing some basics and more while visiting clubs, including many common mistakes... it's all in Korean but still useful without translation) or there https://youtu.be/oZ3P95YWR9o Don't worry about spinning, drives/loops, playing flat is worth a lot of points too.

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    7. Top | #5
      Simas is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bardock View Post
      I did two bounces and the ball was really low but the same thing still happened. My bat angle moved down while doing the stroke I don't know whats causing it.
      Not sure about what inconsistency you are talking about. And what "same thing still happened". You landed the ball on the table again? If you land the ball on the table, your angle is ok

      Your forehand smash is ok, your backhand is somewhat ok.. (your backhand move should be a little bit more from the lower center of your body directed straight towards the ball (with a good wrist flick) and then end up on your right side, not from your deep leftside to your right side... but generally, I've seen much worse when yours... ). So basically, your angles are good, if they were not, you would be hitting either to the net or over the table. Also it's impossible to talk about any inconsistencies seeing 10s video...

      UpSideDownCarl was saying that by doing such smashes you won't impart any spin on your forehand for sure. What concerns your backhand to impart some spin you have to flick the wrist on the contact with the ball. So if that was what you tried to ask (about spinning the ball?), I think is either you didn't do what UpSideDownCarl was saying and your second bounce was also too high... or if the second bounce was lower then the top of the net and you still managed to get the ball over the table, you had to use a more open angle and more upward brushing movement without realizing it... I am not sure if it is possible to do it by yourself (I think you would need a friend or a table tennis robot would do the job too), try getting the ball over the net that is lower then the top of the table plane. You will be forced to brush the ball up to do that for sure.

      If we are talking not to the point, please clarify the question...
      Last edited by Simas; 1 Week Ago at 09:32 PM.

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    9. Top | #6
      Lightzy is offline
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      That's obviously not how you should practice ANY stroke.

      To get an idea of how you hit the ball for feedback, if you want to post a video, post one of you practicing backhand to backhand with someone, with you being in front of the camera.

      There's absolutely nothing that can be said about that stroke from the video you added because there's no way in hell this is how you hit the ball in actual play.
      There's no time to put your bat almost in your armpit for example, and it's also really never a good thing to do because mostly you want to hit the ball brushing it upwards.

    10. Top | #7
      Bardock is online now
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      I think im going to take the focus of the video for a minute and makes you guys better understand what i'm trying to convey. The video that I posted of me was just what I was trying to explain but its from some time ago my strokes in a game are much better then that video I just don't have the chance to get footage of me. I mean like someone pointed out my strokes look okay and in reality playing level wise im fine w/ the level that I am since outside of a club type setting im one of the better players. And in the club setting im like a medium level player. But I just have been having this problem and unlike what lightzy said I really am having a hard time fixing it no matter how much I try.

      Addressing that I will show you guys what i'm trying to convey
      So start this video from .57 seconds and see his punch see how his bat angle just goes down. Thats what happens to me on my forehand and backhand strokes they go down in a certain way and it can make my strokes inconsistent compared to a high level player. Now I will post a video of the racket in a steady angle
      For this video skip to 1.51 and see his steady stroke.

    11. Top | #8
      Lightzy is offline
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      Itll never go down if you fix your shoulder and dont extend your arm forward, but instead use the elbow only as a pivot point that remains fixed in place, not moving forward

    12. Top | #9
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      What lightzy said. You are probably rolling your shoulder forward to try to cover the ball, and the shoulder forces your bat to flop over. Fix your shoulder and keep it still. Do some strokes using only your elbow. Do you still have the same problem?

    13. Top | #10
      UpSideDownCarl is offline
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      One thing that is true is that, footage of you actually hitting with a human would be more useful than footage of you self hitting.

      When your body knows what a good stroke is, there is some benefit that can be had from self hitting to refine certain aspects of your stroke. But right now, you probably would be better off showing what you look like in actual play.

      In your training, are you able to do FH to FH either loop or counterhit with enough consistency to have a video that shows you making several shots in a row to see what you are doing when you are actually tracking the ball.

    14. Top | #11
      Bardock is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brs View Post
      What lightzy said. You are probably rolling your shoulder forward to try to cover the ball, and the shoulder forces your bat to flop over. Fix your shoulder and keep it still. Do some strokes using only your elbow. Do you still have the same problem?
      Um actually when it occurs its because im kinda like snapping my wrist forward. I fixed my shoulder and I can tell that its definitely happening because of my wrist. So I just wanna ask you guys when you snap your wrist forward does it also go down or stay the same angle. edit: and I also want to say that I see a lot of players with the same problem way worse then me so in fact I think this is a really common problem. In fact I want to show a video that a forum member posted and show that he did it too in one of his strokes to show what i'm talking about
      Go to 1.06 and look at green shirts backhand stroke see how the racket angle just goes all the way down and doesn't stay constant.
      Last edited by Bardock; 1 Week Ago at 05:02 AM.

    15. Top | #12
      brokenball is offline
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      Ditto the part about rotating around the elbow. You must also get down so the elbow is about at the same level as the ball when striking. If you look at the video you can see the BH looper crouching to make this so. I get sore back muscles from doing this. It also helps to get your eyes lower closer to the level of the ball.

      The paddle attitude should be constant during the time the ball can hit the paddle. That way the ball will go roughly in the same place if the ball is hit a millisecond early or late.

      Try getting someone to roll balls quickly on the table. You must loop these from table height and below instead of flat hit as you show in your video.

      People are adaptable but if you keep doing the same thing, you will get the same result.

    16. Top | #13
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      Are you consciously using your wrist in the stroke? If you deliberately try to use the m

    17. Top | #14
      Bardock is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brs View Post
      Are you consciously using your wrist in the stroke? If you deliberately try to use the m
      Yes im consciously using my wrist

    18. Top | #15
      Der_Echte is online now
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      The vid at 1:06... camera angle really sucks, hard to see the impact, height of camera way too low and net is in the way of sight.

      The Green Shirt MIGHT have impacted the ball on the side some for control. Totally flipping over the wrist over the top of ball completely is a wasted motion and damned difficult to do under pressure with a high level of consistency.

      There may be times where your stroke wraps around some over the top, usually it is when you realize you need to close the bat some more suddenly.
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    19. Top | #16
      Der_Echte is online now
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      To get back to the original question of how to correct OVER WRAPPING the arm/wrist on the BH...

      Allow the ball to come all the way into the center of your impact zone. Allow yourself to see where you want the ball to land and let the shot go, don't even think. Stay loose on shoulder, arm, and wrist. Firm up only at impact. Do NOT try to make acceleration with too much wrist. (This leads to crazy movements) (do not try to use shoulder either) Let the shot go... which means allow your body to create the kinetic energy, allow it to channel through shoulder and elbow. You do that by staying loose and slowing down the upper arm and elbow to get them steady. The energy goes past elbow.... this is where you add an impulse with your lower arm... stay loose and allow arm to snap and wrist is loose and finishes the whip. You stay loose until right at impact and then you can firm a little or a lot depending on how much force you want to transfer to ball.

      You tighten muscles too soon you will wreck the timing and then do crazy inefficient weird arm, wrist or shoulder movements that will sap your power and injure you down the line.

    20. Top | #17
      Bardock is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte View Post
      To get back to the original question of how to correct OVER WRAPPING the arm/wrist on the BH...

      Allow the ball to come all the way into the center of your impact zone. Allow yourself to see where you want the ball to land and let the shot go, don't even think. Stay loose on shoulder, arm, and wrist. Firm up only at impact. Do NOT try to make acceleration with too much wrist. (This leads to crazy movements) (do not try to use shoulder either) Let the shot go... which means allow your body to create the kinetic energy, allow it to channel through shoulder and elbow. You do that by staying loose and slowing down the upper arm and elbow to get them steady. The energy goes past elbow.... this is where you add an impulse with your lower arm... stay loose and allow arm to snap and wrist is loose and finishes the whip. You stay loose until right at impact and then you can firm a little or a lot depending on how much force you want to transfer to ball.

      You tighten muscles too soon you will wreck the timing and then do crazy inefficient weird arm, wrist or shoulder movements that will sap your power and injure you down the line.
      I think I have figured out what my problem is. When I do shadow strokes and stop using my wrist and use my other arm parts my racket angle doesn't move. I think the problem is like so many players without coaches you kind of get used to using wrist a lot for power but it creates lots of inconsistencies. So even though I can do it correctly when I do shadow strokes in a game because of habit my wrist usage habit comes back. So i'm wondering how to fix over usage of the wrist especially if your kinda ingrained with it.
      Last edited by Bardock; 6 Days Ago at 08:30 PM.

    21. Top | #18
      Der_Echte is online now
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      U gunna need to see it right, do it right real slow, then with many reps do it right slow at first and later, progressively up the tempo when you can handle it.

      Every adult player goes through this, you are not alone.

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