Bulgaria Open 2018

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It is very obvious that that moronic umpire call at the most crucial moment tilted MA Long so much he lost all confidence and hope. Shame on him.
 
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As rainneverever so aptly said it, we should really learn ittf's rules.

It is the responsibility of the player to serve such that the umpire is convinced that the serve is correct. The umpire was on the court and judged Ma Long's serve to be faulty. A fault serve is no less a fault serve at 11-11 than it is at 0-1. Blame Ma Long for failing to produce an obviously clean serve at a crucial moment.

Are there any ITTF people in the forum? Maybe they can give the people some explanations.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
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As rainneverever so aptly said it, we should really learn ittf's rules.

It is the responsibility of the player to serve such that the umpire is convinced that the serve is correct.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

To be honest rules are quite unclear and are hard to execute by the empires. But this particular serve ... I wouldn't blame a blind person if he/she was not convinced about its correctness, but other than that ... clear mistake on the referee side imho.
 
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I was totally surprised to see the CNT coach call a time out when ML was leading 2:0 and 12:11 in game 3 which turns out he lost the game 12:14 and mark the turning point of the match.

Hmmm.
Could it be Ma Long started overthinking again?

Missed your posts man, glad you're back

I was browsing through Taobao and this came up. Too "innovative" to ignore.

Hahaha. Thanks man. I think i need a t-shirt of this
 
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To be honest rules are quite unclear and are hard to execute by the empires. But this particular serve ... I wouldn't blame a blind person if he/she was not convinced about its correctness, but other than that ... clear mistake on the referee side imho.

Oh? Bold statement. What makes you so sure of yourself? :)

I think there is some ground to the referee's decision. From the short form video it is hard to judge whether the serve at 2-1 11-11 is technically correct, even in slow motion. The hand travels a long distance vertically before the ball is tossed, but it is doubtful that the toss itself is bigger than 16cm (16cm is about the height of a paddle face). The moment when the ball leaves the hand cannot be clearly ascertained from the video since the hand is in front of it from the camera's POV. It would be easier if ML's hand was wide open. It is also very difficult to say from that perspective whether the toss is vertical.

Of course it is much easier to see for the referee than for us (despite what you seem to believe).

Now if I were in their shoes, and speaking out of context and again from a lousy video, I might not have called that serve, given that ML clearly signals his intent to serve, generates a high enough toss to react, and assuming that he gained no advantage from the approximate toss. But then I am not in their shoes. And I haven't taken the exam to be a referee either.

Last but not least it is important to take the context into account. I haven't seen the full match (only the ITTF short form). It is possible that ML was repeatedly warned before and went on casually with a few borderline serves. If so, then you reap what you sow. Keep in mind also that this kind of situation is distracting and unfair for the opponent as well, at a crucial moment. Especially if the referee's call is justified and the player starts bitching.
 
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https://d3mjm6zw6cr45s.cloudfront.net/2018/01/2018ITTFHandbook.pdf
2.6 THE SERVICE
2.6.6 It is the responsibility of the player to serve so that the umpire or the assistant umpire can be satisfied that he or she complies with the requirements of the Laws, and either may decide that a service is incorrect.


2.6.6.1 If either the umpire or the assistant umpire is not sure about the legality of a service he or she may, on the first occasion in a match, interrupt play and warn the server; but any subsequent service by that player or his or her doubles partner which is not anylegal shall be considered incorrect.


In the match at Bulgaria Open,
1st set, LP 7:10 ML, LP's FH serve, warning, no penalty
4th set, ML 5:3 LP, ML's FH serve, no warning, penalty
6th set, ML 11:11 LP, ML's BH serve, no warning, penalty
 
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IIRC, Ishikawa was faulted for her high-toss in her match with Eerland without warning. That was the 1st time I saw her go wild in a long time.

p.s. It was the 1st game, at 5:3 when she got faulted for her high-toss, saying "your head/hand? covered the ball." She actually got a warning at 2:2 for something about the toss. She saw it coming but she still went wild.
 
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2.6.6.1 If either the umpire or the assistant umpire is not sure about the legality of a service he or she may, on the first occasion in a match, interrupt play and warn the server; but any subsequent service by that player or his or her doubles partner which is not anylegal shall be considered incorrect.


In the match at Bulgaria Open,
1st set, LP 7:10 ML, LP's FH serve, warning, no penalty
4th set, ML 5:3 LP, ML's FH serve, no warning, penalty
6th set, ML 11:11 LP, ML's BH serve, no warning, penalty

Mmmmmmm.....
 
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Oh? Bold statement. What makes you so sure of yourself? :)

I think there is some ground to the referee's decision. From the short form video it is hard to judge whether the serve at 2-1 11-11 is technically correct, even in slow motion. The hand travels a long distance vertically before the ball is tossed, but it is doubtful that the toss itself is bigger than 16cm (16cm is about the height of a paddle face). The moment when the ball leaves the hand cannot be clearly ascertained from the video since the hand is in front of it from the camera's POV. It would be easier if ML's hand was wide open. It is also very difficult to say from that perspective whether the toss is vertical.
[...]

The statement was a little bold I agree ... and I had no referee exam either - hence the little "imho" in the end ; ) Ok, I would agree with the part of your post I just quoted, about how high the ball traveled after leaving Ma's hand, but ...

here are the reasons I was "bold":
- umpire - as you said - had a better view and yet he didn't react to Ma's server at 2:1 10:10 which seem to me, to be even lower than the one at 11:11.
- starting 2:1 and about 10:8, do you think Liam's toss was "almost" vertical"? Liam used this serve also when he was facing the umpire, so the arc must have been at least a little visible to him.
- I've been discussing the toss thing with my pro friend (actually Europe Championship 1986 runner-up : ) according to him, the reason for introducing this rule was this one guy, who's serves were somewhat peculiar. He practically didn't throw the ball up but rather rolled it against the rubber giving it an enormous spin, quite hard to receive - as you might imagine : ) So in the case od Ma's serve and considering how long was the downward part of the ball's parabole, the spirit of the rule was definitely preserved.
- I still remember OG 2012 Ding - Li Xiaoxia final ... really umpires should be very careful when awarding the penalties for serves. That match was completely deformed because of how lavish was the empire when awarding the points - against Ding ... (although Li was stronger and played better at that time ; )

True, situation when the referee interferes, distracts both players, but the confidence of the penalized player really suffers at that moment, specially 11:11. It's too bad there are no more, like 2-3 warnings the empire could issue and order a player to replay the point i.e. ...

Apart from the above ... no sarcasm here, congratulations to Liam! Overall a great performance.

Edit: I removed my second point, Ma could have hidden the ball with his head, when examined the video in slowmo. Sorry to the Umpire.
 
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@Jawien: The confidence of the penalised player suffers but it is their fault. The focus of the opponent also suffers (unless the penalised player decides to man up and shut up) but they had nothing to do with it in the first place, other than to get ****ed in the ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) while the referee wasn't faulting.

Don't you think an umpire would be careful when awarding penalties for serves in an Olympic final? Of course they would. Bet the people chosen for that job know their place and the rules a lot better than we do too. Ding Ning's reaction was unsightly.

Mmmmmmm.....
It's just rainneverever pretending not to understand English. But not so much as to explicitly write that dumb conclusion he's been aching to write.

The warning is a favour to the offending player by the umpire (benefit of the doubt or courtesy of the umpire). The warning may serve as a warning to both players. It is not a player's due. The umpire may fault a player without prior warning if the serve is incorrect or dubious. How come the player can be faulted without warning for a dubious serve? Because it is the responsibility of the player to make the service clearly correct. Last but not least, a player never gets two warnings. He has to be penalised instead the second time around. This cuts to the chase.

ML didn't challenge the umpire's decision. He is not stupid. He is a great player too so no doubt he knows how to assign the blame where it belongs. Fans should learn.
 
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ML is a human . He had a great run between 2012-2017 and won almost everything. Clearly he does not move as before. Nor does he punch that much power. Just playing BH-BH was never ML's forte. Age and family commitments seems to have caught up with him.

Some of the CNT 4h style / rubber advantage has been diminished with the abs plastic ball. Pitchford plays a style to take advantage of the match ups, but still very difficult to beat them.
 
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Some stats for the match between Kenta and Bojan

Table tennis match analysis
Bojan Tokic vs Kenta Matsudaira
Bulgaria 2018

Result 0:4 (4:11; 7:11; 4:11; 8:11)

Total number of points, made by Bojan Tokic: 23
Total number of points, made by Kenta Matsudaira: 44

Total number of points, made by Bojan Tokic on own service: 14
Success rate for Bojan Tokic on own service: 41,18

Total number of points, made by Bojan Tokic when receiving the opponent service: 9
Success rate for Bojan Tokic when receiving the opponent service: 27,27

Total number of points, made by Kenta Matsudaira on own service: 24
Success rate for Kenta Matsudaira on own service: 72,73

Total number of points, made by Kenta Matsudaira when receiving the opponent service: 20
Success rate for Kenta Matsudaira when receiving the opponent service: 58,82

Most consecutive points won by Bojan Tokic: 2
Most consecutive points won by Kenta Matsudaira: 5

Number of winners made by Kenta Matsudaira: 10
Number of forehand winners made by Kenta Matsudaira: 7
Number of backhand winners made by Kenta Matsudaira: 3

Number of errors made by Bojan Tokic: 34
Number of forehand errors made by Bojan Tokic: 15
Number of backhand errors made by Bojan Tokic: 19

Number of errors made by Kenta Matsudaira: 21
Number of forehand errors made by Kenta Matsudaira: 13
Number of backhand errors made by Kenta Matsudaira: 8

Number of topspin winners made by Kenta Matsudaira: 8
Number of forehand topspin winners made by Kenta Matsudaira: 6
Number of forehand topspin winners against topspin made by Kenta Matsudaira: 3
Number of forehand topspin winners against block made by Kenta Matsudaira: 2
Number of forehand topspin winners against push made by Kenta Matsudaira: 1
Number of backhand topspin winners made by Kenta Matsudaira: 2
Number of backhand topspin winners against topspin made by Kenta Matsudaira: 1
Number of backhand topspin winners against block made by Kenta Matsudaira: 1

Number of topspin errors made by Bojan Tokic: 12
Number of forehand topspin errors made by Bojan Tokic: 4
Number of backhand topspin errors made by Bojan Tokic: 8
Number of backhand topspin errors against topspin made by Bojan Tokic: 7
Number of backhand topspin errors against push made by Bojan Tokic: 1

Number of topspin errors made by Kenta Matsudaira: 16
Number of forehand topspin errors made by Kenta Matsudaira: 11
Number of forehand topspin errors against topspin made by Kenta Matsudaira: 7
Number of backhand topspin errors made by Kenta Matsudaira: 5

Number of block errors made by Bojan Tokic: 6
Number of backhand block errors against topspin made by Bojan Tokic: 5

Number of push errors made by Bojan Tokic: 11
Number of forehand push errors against service made by Bojan Tokic: 6

Number of errors made from forehand zone by Bojan Tokic: 8
Number of errors made from middle of the table by Bojan Tokic: 10
Number of errors made from backhand zone by Bojan Tokic: 16

Number of forehand errors made from forehand zone by Bojan Tokic: 8
Number of forehand errors made from middle of the table by Bojan Tokic: 6
Number of forehand errors made from backhand zone by Bojan Tokic: 1
Number of backhand errors made from middle of the table by Bojan Tokic: 4
Number of backhand errors made from backhand zone by Bojan Tokic: 15
Number of errors made from backhand zone to backhand zone by Bojan Tokic: 11
Number of backhand errors made from backhand zone to backhand zone by Bojan Tokic: 10
Number of backhand topspin errors made from backhand zone by Bojan Tokic: 6

Number of forehand push errors made from forehand zone by Bojan Tokic: 4
Number of forehand push errors made from forehand zone to backhand zone by Bojan Tokic: 4

Number of errors made from forehand zone by Kenta Matsudaira: 5
Number of errors made from middle of the table by Kenta Matsudaira: 8
Number of errors made from backhand zone by Kenta Matsudaira: 8

Number of forehand errors made from forehand zone by Kenta Matsudaira: 5
Number of forehand errors made from middle of the table by Kenta Matsudaira: 6
Number of forehand errors made from backhand zone by Kenta Matsudaira: 2
Number of backhand errors made from middle of the table by Kenta Matsudaira: 2
Number of backhand errors made from backhand zone by Kenta Matsudaira: 6
Number of errors made from backhand zone to backhand zone by Kenta Matsudaira: 7

Number of forehand topspin errors made from middle of the table by Kenta Matsudaira: 5
Number of forehand topspin errors made from middle of the table to forehand zone by Kenta Matsudaira: 1
Number of forehand topspin errors made from middle of the table to middle of the table by Kenta Matsudaira: 4
 

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It reminds me of something I heard a chinese coach at MDTTC say back in 2014. A little girl was crying after losing a tough match in top table against her arch-enemy little girl. He announced to no one in particular. 'Why cry when you lose? Everybody lose. Ma Long lose. Ding Ning lose. Everybody lose. Why cry?'

When you compete, sometimes you lose. Maybe a lot of things happened to turn the result. But sometimes you simply meet another player on their best day, or your worst day, and you lose. Everything else about ML is different from us. That is the same for everyone.
 
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So deep...
So deep...
So deep...
So deep...
So deep...
So deep...
So deep...
 
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