Bulgaria Open 2018

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There is no doubt the new ball has less spin and there are many novice arguments (not really expert) how advanced players should play to adapt to the new ball. I find these arguments lot of gaps/errors and based on personal accounts rather than facts.

Let me ask a personal question to all the novices( who may think themselves experts here): Does the new ball affect your play or style? And it it does how does it affect your playing against same level players you used to play?

As I am just a novice and never thought of myself as an expert I'd say it doesn't affect the outcome of my playing with my usual opponents at all!

Evidences already showed the new ball doesn't affect CNT players. They are just too good to the rest of the world.
 
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There is no doubt the new ball has less spin and there are many novice arguments (not really expert) how advanced players should play to adapt to the new ball. I find these arguments lot of gaps/errors and based on personal accounts rather than facts.

Let me ask a personal question to all the novices( who may think themselves experts here): Does the new ball affect your play or style? And it it does how does it affect your playing against same level players you used to play?

As I am just a novice and never thought of myself as an expert I'd say it doesn't affect the outcome of my playing with my usual opponents at all!

Evidences already showed the new ball doesn't affect CNT players. They are just too good to the rest of the world.

So maybe I'm a little responsible at least for some part of the discussions going on TTD. I sometimes follow the EmRatThich on his yt channel.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_GiI83OPF1cwYlT9wUpMBw

In the "New Trend In Table Tennis: Harimoto Tomokazu" he explained his theory, which worked for me ... still does I think.

Of course I'm no expert, I was never a pro coach or player, but since probably 2011 there was barely any bigger tournament, I haven't seen at least a little.

As to your question ... for me, I usually play a controlled attacking game and in the cell era I was i.e. very hesitant to counter a spiny ball, I'd rather just "put it back" on the table. Nowadays I find it quite a reasonable percentage shot, I mean I tend to go for it, which is surprising for me actually ... maybe not too often, but definitely more than before.
 
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So maybe I'm a little responsible at least for some part of the discussions going on TTD. I sometimes follow the EmRatThich on his yt channel.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_GiI83OPF1cwYlT9wUpMBw

In the "New Trend In Table Tennis: Harimoto Tomokazu" he explained his theory, which worked for me ... still does I think.

Of course I'm no expert, I was never a pro coach or player, but since probably 2011 there was barely any bigger tournament, I haven't seen at least a little.

As to your question ... for me, I usually play a controlled attacking game and in the cell era I was i.e. very hesitant to counter a spiny ball, I'd rather just "put it back" on the table. Nowadays I find it quite a reasonable percentage shot, I mean I tend to go for it, which is surprising for me actually ... maybe not too often, but definitely more than before.

I used to think ERT's comments made sense until I saw his analysis on HM and the new ball impact. Evidences showed his analysis invalid as XX won twice and ML won once this year while HM only won in his hometown.

It is easier for you to counter-loop but what about the outcome? Do you find you beat your partners/opponents more and your rating raised higher?
 
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I have consistently said before poly ball got in use and in its early days that a player who can spin the ball heavy can still do that with good effect.

I am in the minority on that opinion.

I basically agree that a player can play pretty much the same style, but further agree the poly ball made it easier to do a few things.

- Be more aggressive on serve receive (bounces higher and easier to overcome spin)

- Attack underpin (they bounce higher)

- Counter topspin (just easier to do that now)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 
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I used to think ERT's comments made sense until I saw his analysis on HM and the new ball impact. Evidences showed his analysis invalid as XX won twice and ML won once this year while HM only won in his hometown.

It is easier for you to counter-loop but what about the outcome? Do you find you beat your partners/opponents more and your rating raised higher?

No, not really, not even my friend who has middle pips on the bh side, just uses those to push you away and as soon as he does, he turns around for a plain, off the bounce forehand blow away. So you might say his style is perfect for the abs'es ...

But the pros are a different story, of course there are also Hirano, Ito and they practice specific tactical aspects of the game... but what really convinces me is that Harimoto, even being quite tall/athletic as he is, should not be able - as a 15 yo - to compete physically with Ma Long. Just sheer power transformed into the spin should not allow that. This is just my opinion ... and yet Tomo is quite comfortable countering those - this is what makes me think the ball plays a role - a little. Plus all the tactics and of course this off the bounce strategy ...

You don't see any difference?

And don't get me wrong of course, the kid is a genius ...
 
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I have consistently said before poly ball got in use and in its early days that a player who can spin the ball heavy can still do that with good effect.

I am in the minority on that opinion.

I basically agree that a player can play pretty much the same style, but further agree the poly ball made it easier to do a few things.

- Be more aggressive on serve receive (bounces higher and easier to overcome spin)

- Attack underpin (they bounce higher)

- Counter topspin (just easier to do that now)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I agree Der. The bottom line is the ball will make the rally longer, just like when they changed the ball from 38mm to 40mm then 40+mm. There is no such thing the ball will favor certain style. Everyone still needs to be more consistent, physical and mentally strong, strategically intelligent in order to be competitive .. just like with the old ball! Nothing changes! And the CNT members will continue dominating the sport as usual. Only hope is a future HM with his talent (not just style to adapt to new ball theory) to beat the CNT.
 
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Guys but we are worrying here that a certain style might be favored or not, maybe we'll be more aggressive who knows, and we have a headache.
But just to gain some perspective, this is still nothing compared to what the guys like i.e. Victor Barna or Marty Reisman have experienced. They did love their current game just like we and a single man Hiroji Satoh within the course of basically one tournament wiped out their - not even style - the whole game from the face of the sport. Not too long ago we had Brendt who was the proponent of hardbats and was pinching us from time to time about our today's "solipsism". When I think about our little changes, I really feel for him ... I mean, let's face it, the current game is not "super perfect", the dream of longer rallies is still being chased, right ...
 
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Guys but we are worrying here that a certain style might be favored or not, maybe we'll be more aggressive who knows, and we have a headache.
But just to gain some perspective, this is still nothing compared to what the guys like i.e. Victor Barna or Marty Reisman have experienced. They did love their current game just like we and a single man Hiroji Satoh within the course of basically one tournament wiped out their - not even style - the whole game from the face of the sport. Not too long ago we had Brendt who was the proponent of hardbats and was pinching us from time to time about our today's "solipsism". When I think about our little changes, I really feel for him ... I mean, let's face it, the current game is not "super perfect", the dream of longer rallies is still being chased, right ...

Things change. I really like the plastic ball as well. Sometimes it's good to change with the times. Anyway, hardbats are still legal, so someone who's good with it, still can play with it.
 
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I usually play a controlled attacking game and in the cell era I was i.e. very hesitant to counter a spiny ball, I'd rather just "put it back" on the table. Nowadays I find it quite a reasonable percentage shot, I mean I tend to go for it, which is surprising for me actually ... maybe not too often, but definitely more than before.
This would be a valid observation IF nothing else had changed from the "cell era" to now. How long ago is that for you? Are you still playing the same standard now as then? Are you using the same blade? The same rubbers? Can you honestly say there are no other factors which may contribute to your change in play? Perhaps you just have more confidence in your counter-loop and would nowadays attack a celluloid ball just as readily.
 
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I quite often do multiball with plastic, play almost always with celluloid so for me it's still "cell era", but I've hit a few thousands of plastic balls. I honestly feel there's a huge difference. If you have a high quality plastic ball and a high quality celluloid ball, do this: https://youtu.be/F8ujr2idNL8?t=21 and see how long does each spin. It's night and day and it directly reflects in game. Plastic straightens the trajoctories and makes the life easier for whoever is playing closer to the table.
 
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This would be a valid observation IF nothing else had changed from the "cell era" to now. How long ago is that for you? Are you still playing the same standard now as then? Are you using the same blade? The same rubbers? [...]

I quite often do multiball with plastic, play almost always with celluloid so for me it's still "cell era", but I've hit a few thousands of plastic balls. I honestly feel there's a huge difference. [...]

I don't want to turn this into a therapeutic session ... : ) but I guess my tt skillset is about the same for the last 2-3 years. Ok we play twice a week, but without practicing ... well, you can imagine there's no big progress, if at all. But this is not only me, my other friend playing defense (league above me) says his winning percentage dropped noticeably - he blames the spin ...

... I missed the beginning of the "plastic era". Our league was not required to switch balls till last year so till that time we used celluloid. Those new abses (as people seem to call them) are sort of okay for me - the quality of the game is preserved. They don't brake, spin is there ... never really tested it, but I would agree with what people are saying that they are harder and bounce higher. Fabian I think was arguing that those abses loose most of their spin rather after the bounce, so .. I don't know.

Besides, check how many fast, of the bounce, bh - bh exchanges are there on the pro level ... arguably more than before.

You may also perform the Xu Xin trick test ; )
 
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The ABS ball has a much more consistent bounce imo. Outside of that, while i cant say to have directly noticed the lack of spin of the new ball due to playing a resonably flat game and serving mostly with placement and speed in mind (often float - works much better than you'd imagine), I have noticed that it seems to suit me because shots like a block and punch are easier to perform with a plastic ball. I can attribute this to a lower amount of spin and if i do play wiht a celluoid ball by accident once in a blue moon its noticable how much easier it is to lift them with spin.
 
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Der, you'll have to give me some time to write you an analysis - and this is an ambition of mine : ) I mean ML was always known for his fh power, but when I watched again his matchup with HT, he didn't use too much of it. My thoughts are, it has something to do with Wang Hao's tactics against ML. On the other hand ZJK was not susceptible to those and yet he lost against HT recently...

The reason is, me and some of mine friends are going to the Czech Open Friday to Sunday. We hope to have a good time there, make some trouble if possible ; )
 
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