Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced

In the United States there is a rating system in which you gain 0 to 8 points for beating people with a lower rating than you, and 8 to 50 points for beating people with a higher rating than you. You also lose points by following the same logic. Over time, these rating points justify peoples' skill level quite accurately. The ratings in the US varies from 0 to about 2800. The tournament divisions in my local club are divided as U1400, U1600, U1800, U2000, U2200, U2400, and open. I wonder if other countries have a similar system to place players in different categories.

Beginner Intermediate Advanced .. ?

https://www.thoughtco.com/table-tennis-playing-levels-3173601

GusShnaps said:

Hey guys!

I was wondering, how do you know what level you are in in table tennis? What are the main differences between Beginner and Intermediate players? I wanted to know what level I'm in.

Thanks!

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The definition of beginner is easy
Beginner: a person who has begun a course of instruction or is learning the fundamentals (taken from dictionary.com)
Pretty much anyone that has just started out.

Now, the definition of intermediate and advanced is where it gets tricky. Advanced would be someone far in development (but at what point does one stop developing?) and intermediate would be someone in-between.
We will probably have to define "develop" as well: grow or cause to grow and become more mature, advanced, or elaborate. (taken from google definitions)

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Now there are many skills in table tennis that one can develop and mature. And players have very many separate skills, and trying to classify a player as beginner, intermediate, and advanced would oversimplify their skillset.

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On to my very simple definition:
On to the difference between intermediate and beginner: since beginners are pretty much new to the sport, they will make a lot of decisional mistakes. They might push instead of attacking, stand in a bad position, or smash something that shouldn't be smashed. And of course, they will make technical mistakes.

An intermediate player will obviously make fewer technical mistakes, but I'd expect an intermediate player to make much fewer decisional mistakes. Intermediate players will smash when they should and defend when they should. Technical mistakes and ball-misjudgement will still happen frequently, but that's what I'd say is intermediate. Getting to a respectful intermediate level should take ~400 hours of mindful improvement.

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To me:
In terms of USATT, beginner would be 1400 and below,
intermediate would be 1400-1800.

Even simpler, I suggest, if you are asking on an online forum...you are a beginner!

I think there are some decent answers above. I am not sure if you asking the question means you are a beginner. That could be. But it may not be.

The link that explains the differences from loopadoop's post is decent. I would simplify it.

1) Beginner: If you are learning the fundamentals, if you are starting out, if you need to learn to read spin and learn to generate very good spin, I would say you were in the beginner category.

2) Intermediate: If you are quite good at generating spin and decent at reading spin, even when deception is being used, then you are probably in the intermediate category. (I think this is a large number of players on the forum and I think that is a fine thing.) To be clear, this means that you can loop with massive amounts of topspin when you want. And it means that you can push with massive amounts of backspin. It should also mean that you have control of varying the spin so you can put more or less. You are not stuck in one gear.

3) Advanced: I would call this someone who has reached a semi-pro or elite amateur level and is legitimately good enough to coach and help people. It means that the person is taking those skills of generating spin, varying spin and reading and compensating for spin and is refining those tools at quite a high level so that they have a decent mastery of the fundamentals and consistency is not their main weakness.

That is how I think of this issue.

So, in terms of USATT Ratings: guys below a rating of 2300 are in the intermediate category. Guys between 2000-2300 are in the HIGH end of the spectrum of intermediate players. Guys lower than say 1400-1500 are in a category that I would consider a beginner level. Guys between 1200-1500 are in the high level of beginner.

Sometimes someone who is below 1400 will still be intermediate because their technique is excellent but they need work on game skills. That is rare though.

And, I guess, some of how a person may think about these categories can be based on your level and understanding of the game. I know a lot of guys I consider beginners who think they are advanced.

Skills an intermediate level player should probably be able to do:

1) loop a ball with a large arc and a big kick from the topspin.
2) loop a ball with a hook or a fade sidespin and get the ball to curve 1-3 feet in the air in either direction.
3) serve topspin, side-top, backspin, side-back and dead, all with the same motion.
4) have the ability to serve short and long with adequate control.
5) push at a decent level.
6) chop when needed.

A decent defender you would flip this a little and it would be:

1) chop or chop/block an opponent's loop consistently with somewhat awkward placement.
2) vary the spin on their chop.
3) serve topspin, side-top, backspin, side-back and dead, all with the same motion.
4) have the ability to serve short and long with adequate control.
5) push at a decent level. (Usually defenders do have this skill).
6) loop (attack) when warranted.

Carl has just started a California wildfire by saying all under 2300 are not advanced !!! Hahahaha 3x haha, but he is right, if the perspective is from an elite amateur, then his threshold could be even higher.

Can someone post a link to a video of an intermediate level player serving topspin, side-top, backspin, side-back and dead, all with the same motion. IMO, they are a highly endangered species and rare to be seen in the wild.

vvk1 said:

Can someone post a link to a video of an intermediate level player serving topspin, side-top, backspin, side-back and dead, all with the same motion. IMO, they are a highly endangered species and rare to be seen in the wild.

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Are you telling me you cannot serve those variations with a pendulum motion? Really?

Are you telling me most players 1700-2300 (USATT) cannot do that?

on a side note, a pro in one country is like a beginner in another

vvk1 said:

Can someone post a link to a video of an intermediate level player serving topspin, side-top, backspin, side-back and dead, all with the same motion. IMO, they are a highly endangered species and rare to be seen in the wild.

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Uh-oh, vvk1 stepped on a doo doo mine. It's OK, I do that often enough too... I am a pro level at opening my mouth and sticking in my foot.

I would agree that the majority of the intermediate players as defined by an 1800 to 2300 east coast usatt level do not quite check all the boxes on the serve checklist, but a decent fraction can do it.

Anyone can look up the match Next Level posted from nyisc with carl and co looking on. Both of us checked all the boxes on servers and added a few to the list.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

UpSideDownCarl said:

Are you telling me you cannot serve those variations with a pendulum motion? Really?

Are you telling me most players 1700-2300 (USATT) cannot do that?

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With the same motion - I cannot do all 5. With similar motion - I can. Even if you watch someone like Timo Boll in that video v Dan where he shows off his serves - it is not the same motion but same starting position and similar motions that that results in different spins.

I don't play in USA so have no idea what "most" 1700-2300 USATT players can or cannot do. Based on some videos on YT (e.g. TableTennisChicago https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC70DonxVphgQk7MotE_K1DA or pong4life https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMnmPDngUwnxj1WR0AeRuEA) I conclude that players in that range don't seem to achieve all these spins with same motion.

Which I why I had asked for a video. If as you claim this is prevalent in 1700-2300 range, you should have no problems coming up with an example.

vvk1 said:

With the same motion - I cannot do all 5. With similar motion - I can. Even if you watch someone like Timo Boll in that video v Dan where he shows off his serves - it is not the same motion but same starting position and similar motions that that results in different spins.

I don't play in USA so have no idea what "most" 1700-2300 USATT players can or cannot do. Based on some videos on YT (e.g. TableTennisChicago https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC70DonxVphgQk7MotE_K1DA or pong4life https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMnmPDngUwnxj1WR0AeRuEA) I conclude that players in that range don't seem to achieve all these spins with same motion.

Which I why I had asked for a video. If as you claim this is prevalent in 1700-2300 range, you should have no problems coming up with an example.

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Okay. You took my term “same motion” a bit too literally. In Brett Clarke’s TTEdge App, I can read the difference between the serves of the top players as I study them because, even at very high levels, you can see the difference.

I meant using a pendulum motion to produce varied spin. But yes, it is not the same EXACT motion. It is just a similar motion. For example, when I do Backspin with as little side as possible, I pull under the ball. When I do top-side I pull up on the left side of the back of the ball as my wrist snaps and my racket moves right to left, so if you are watching, you can see my forearm raises as my wrist snaps. On topspin, I am pulling up the back of the ball.

So, the variations can be read. And for a decent level player it may not be that hard to read them. I just meant that a player at an intermediate level should be able to do a specific kind of serve and create most, if not all, of the variations in spin.

With my hook and my reverse pendulum I can create similar variations. But have more control with the pendulum.

But I have been told that the serves I do that are hardest to read are from my hook serve.

One person who has told me that is NextLevel.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

I am not in UK, but watching a few good players from UK in USA, I would say 2300 USATT would be somewhere around UK national rank 250-300 seniors. The former UK Pr. League player I base it from made up to UK50 and was likely 2500 level back then.

UpSideDownCarl said:

I am not sure if you asking the question means you are a beginner. That could be. But it may not be.

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I admit that it's a bit of a trolling or unhelpful reply, but when I give this advice ("If you have to ask, the answer is no") I actually am trying to make a point about self-assessment. I believe that when someone begins to realise exactly how limited they currently are, the true depth of the game, and how much they have to learn, is when they stop being a beginner.

Another way to assess 2300, it is about where guys start looking like high level players, where, when you see video of them, they start not looking so much like amateurs, or awkward.

Both of these guys are around 2200:

UpSideDownCarl said:

Okay. You took my term “same motion” a bit too literally. In Brett Clarke’s TTEdge App, I can read the difference between the serves of the top players as I study them because, even at very high levels, you can see the difference.

I meant using a pendulum motion to produce varied spin. But yes, it is not the same EXACT motion. It is just a similar motion. For example, when I do Backspin with as little side as possible, I pull under the ball. When I do top-side I pull up on the left side of the back of the ball as my wrist snaps and my racket moves right to left, so if you are watching, you can see my forearm raises as my wrist snaps. On topspin, I am pulling up the back of the ball.

So, the variations can be read. And for a decent level player it may not be that hard to read them. I just meant that a player at an intermediate level should be able to do a specific kind of serve and create most, if not all, of the variations in spin.

With my hook and my reverse pendulum I can create similar variations. But have more control with the pendulum.

But I have been told that the serves I do that are hardest to read are from my hook serve.

One person who has told me that is NextLevel.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

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Ok, makes sense. Thanks for clearing this up.

Do you become expert when you can hide the ball on your serve?