Dwell Time .....

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Controversial post perhaps, but has anybody ever mentioned that dwell time is a myth?
Dwell time is the time that the ball is in contact with the rubber. Since this time is not 0, dwell time exists.
Dwell time is not a myth but few, almost no one, understands dwell time. The fortunate thing is that you don't need to understand dwell time to play well and have fun doing it.
 
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Controversial post perhaps, but has anybody ever mentioned that dwell time is a myth?

Dwell time is the time that the ball is in contact with the rubber. Since this time is not 0, dwell time exists.
Dwell time is not a myth but few, almost no one, understands dwell time. The fortunate thing is that you don't need to understand dwell time to play well and have fun doing it.

I like both these posts.

And for sure brokenball knows this kind of stuff.
 
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Controversial post perhaps, but has anybody ever mentioned that dwell time is a myth?

Dwell time is the time that the ball is in contact with the rubber. Since this time is not 0, dwell time exists.
Dwell time is not a myth but few, almost no one, understands dwell time. The fortunate thing is that you don't need to understand dwell time to play well and have fun doing it.

I like both these posts.

And for sure brokenball knows this kind of stuff.
I would agree with brokenball that dwell time exists; however, the more important part is his second point: "few, almost no one, understands dwell time". Dwell time is greater than 0, but it is so infinitesimally small as to be insignificant. Dwell time can only be measured in milliseconds, much too brief to be discernible to the human mind. What we feel and what we respond to is not dwell time.
 
I would agree with brokenball that dwell time exists; however, the more important part is his second point: "few, almost no one, understands dwell time". Dwell time is greater than 0, but it is so infinitesimally small as to be insignificant. Dwell time can only be measured in milliseconds, much too brief to be discernible to the human mind. What we feel and what we respond to is not dwell time.

For hitters the dwell is in the range of milliseconds. But for players it may be from milliseconds to tenths of the second, depending on the perticular kind of the stroke. And if a really experienced player wants to show you the margins of the dwell, you would see a dwell of a second. Dwell is an irrevocable element in every shot, and its duration is an important factor to define the particular characteristics of different strokes.
 
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this is easy to explain
give someone a OFF+++++++++++++ blade with super fast rubbers
what is dwell time

give someone a very controlled setup
oh, so that is dwell time

irrespective of 1/1000 seconds or 1/10 seconds, that all count, as table tennis is a very fast sport. You can't be discounting even the smallest fraction of time

put it this way
if there is no dwell time, then all the table tennis makers are making false marketing that the equipment can spin/grip the ball
 
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For hitters the dwell is in the range of milliseconds. But for players it may be from milliseconds to tenths of the second, depending on the perticular kind of the stroke. And if a really experienced player wants to show you the margins of the dwell, you would see a dwell of a second. Dwell is an irrevocable element in every shot, and its duration is an important factor to define the particular characteristics of different strokes.
If what you say is even remotely true, then you should have no problems producing a video with "a dwell of a second". Please provide us all with the evidence to prove this ridiculous claim.

But I know - and you know - you can't provide such a video because it doesn't exist.
 
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If what you say is even remotely true, then you should have no problems producing a video with "a dwell of a second". Please provide us all with the evidence to prove this ridiculous claim.

But I know - and you know - you can't provide such a video because it doesn't exist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3XzhprfhME
the moment the ball stops during contact with the rubber - that is dwell time
 
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Hi,
I just have one question!
Which Blade have the Longest Dwell time ??
Cheers!

One of the Best dwell time blade is xiom zetro quad, second place - butterfly jun mizutani. Jun mizutani have a hight catapullt affect, because of this not very good control.
 
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Dwell time is a bit difficult to explain. What we perceive as dwell time is in fact the rebound speed. For a blade the dwell time only lasts milliseconds. A very hard surface will give a higher rebound speed and vice versa. If you bounce the ball on two different blades you will feel the different bounce height and speed but the dwell is not noticeable. You might feel more feedback on the softer one but that's not really the dwell, that's the blade absorbing more energy. But during play it's different, if you hit the ball with sufficient force the blade will bend, the time it takes to return to it's position is the dwell. So speed, hardness, dwell, flex, are all related.

However, it think the rubber is the most important aspect for dwell time, a softer rubber will compress more giving that sensation of holding the ball.
 
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A softer material will have more dwell time.
Case closed

For blades anyway. For rubbers it can get more complicated
 
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Some of dwell time is in the hand. The skill of the player can cause the ball to hold on the rubber a tiny bit longer. Softer blades help you develop this skill. But in the end, the skill is in the hand. Some people have good touch and good feeling. Others do not.


I made a video of Mark Croitoroo serving and how long he holds the ball on the rubber for extra spin. It was a few years ago.

Here is a photo from a freeze in the video:

Screen Shot 2018-10-17 at 10.00.38 AM.jpg

Just from the photo you can see he holds the ball on the rubber and blade face for a while. But it still is in the range of milliseconds as you can see from the video:


If you play it at half speed, you can see he holds the ball on there for a little extra time. But it is still pretty fast. When someone is good at looping you can see them pull the ball like that for a moment too. But it is still very fast.

If a good stroke takes less than a second and the amount of time the ball is on the racket is less than 1/10,000th of the length of the whole stroke, it would have to be quite a short amount of time.

But someone with skillz can hold the ball on the rubber fractionally longer.

A soft blade makes it easier to learn how to do that. But still, you need to understand that you want to touch the ball gently and precisely to let the rubber grab the ball, to let the ball sink into the sponge, while you are pulling the racket past the ball.

And a lot of what people feel as dwell time is probably the rubber from the topsheet stretching, distorting and then rebounding as the sponge compresses and then springs back during contact.
 
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Not necessarily, a soft but stiff blade can have less dwell than a harder flexy blade.

Well said. I'm not sure if dwell time is myth, but I think anyone who has used something like Carbonado 245 (OFF+) and then immediately change to Yasaka Sweden Classic (ALL) can tell there is a huge difference. With an ALL blade, you feel like there's much more time to make tiny adjustments when the ball contacts the racket. The ball also sinks into the blade more, giving better feedback. With an OFF+ blade, much more force is required to achieve the same result.

So maybe "dwell time" isn't so much the amount of time the ball stays on the blade, but rather how easily the ball can sink into the blade to produce the intend spin, catapult, and feedback characteristics.
 
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Some of dwell time is in the hand. The skill of the player can cause the ball to hold on the rubber a tiny bit longer. Softer blades help you develop this skill. But in the end, the skill is in the hand. Some people have good touch and good feeling. Others do not.


I made a video of Mark Croitoroo serving and how long he holds the ball on the rubber for extra spin. It was a few years ago.

Here is a photo from a freeze in the video:

View attachment 17693

Just from the photo you can see he holds the ball on the rubber and blade face for a while. But it still is in the range of milliseconds as you can see from the video:


If you play it at half speed, you can see he holds the ball on there for a little extra time. But it is still pretty fast. When someone is good at looping you can see them pull the ball like that for a moment too. But it is still very fast.

If a good stroke takes less than a second and the amount of time the ball is on the racket is less than 1/10,000th of the length of the whole stroke, it would have to be quite a short amount of time.

But someone with skillz can hold the ball on the rubber fractionally longer.

A soft blade makes it easier to learn how to do that. But still, you need to understand that you want to touch the ball gently and precisely to let the rubber grab the ball, to let the ball sink into the sponge, while you are pulling the racket past the ball.

And a lot of what people feel as dwell time is probably the rubber from the topsheet stretching, distorting and then rebounding as the sponge compresses and then springs back during contact.

here is another video I came across
wonder who is the good looking guy

 
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Not necessarily, a soft but stiff blade can have less dwell than a harder flexy blade.

This is a good point. The flex which is also related to the vibration plays some role in helping you keep the ball on the surface longer.
 
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