balance between active and passive play

It's funny to hear about it because i'm currently asking myself the same kind of question

I used to attack strongly all possible balls but lately i filmed my matches and i've discovered that indeed I and the other player do a lot of mistakes at my level. So lately i tried to play more safe (push, block) and i've seen again more how much unforced mistakes are done (at my level).

Also with playing safer, one benefit i begin to experience is that i don't feel rushed to finish the point. I begin to feel that it's not a problem to stay in rally until a good ball comes as i get in the habit to handle longer rallies (block, push) and to see the other miss quite often.

So right now i continue to develop this more blocking/counter attack style as i have still a lot to learn about it. But nevertheless, i think active play is most of the time more effective and will be even more so if you learn to handle the passive game effectively (i hope so for myself).

Equipment wise then, something more slow like you say. But i'm not sure the equipment is really this much relevant in this question

To summary, i think safe play is a good training and learning experience but in long term, an active game is better

My two cents: when I was young I wasn't really an attacker, I mostly won the games by forcing the opponents to errors by chop/push short/long variations. However I could never keep up with the best kids when playing such passive game and when coming to adult age I left the game, partially because I was able to play only much lower leagues then all my friends I was training with in past ten years.

Fast forward to 2017 when I came back to the game. Different ball, different equipment, but that basic truth about attackers mostly outpowering "allround" players who count more on placement, change in the pace and block seems to be valid. In lower league I'm able to win the games by just service/receive game, smart pushing and playing with rotation. But once I come to the league of "my" level, players start to consistently loop 3rd balls, being able to hit the second attack as well and my simple blocking and passively waiting game brings me troubles. Naturally starting stepping back from the table and even I can do come back from lobbing game it's harder and harder once the guy on the opposite side knows how to hit it hard.

So to conclude I'm currently rather searching for consistent 3rd ball attacking game from both sides then anything else. I know that good placement on blocks and pushes will stay in my game forever but that doesn't seem to be the game to go once you reach level where opponents are more consistent and stop doing obvious unforced errors. And it seems to me that it reflects the reality on all levels up to professionals (1st national league up to world tour): usually maximum 10% of "allrounders" such as Samsonov and once you hit some defender they typically need to win the game buy these 20-30% of surprising attacks than by pure chopping from the beck (look on some games of Filus or Panagiotis: once they are 100% in defense it means they are in real troubles and they basically never win, the more they are able to attack the more is their percentage to win the match).

Well, actully it happened today with me too.

In my case as a coach, I have a kid that I started coaching 1 year ago almost exactly, he is 10 years old, and his game right now is based in serve and attack from Fh, all table, flips the ball on Bh and has a good fast game.

The problem: obviously today in the district championships he lost to a kid that pushed the ball very well, my kids pushing game is not as good,also the touch is not good enough, he lost 12-10; 12-10 and 11-9 almost with unforced errors.

I mantain my goal of teaching him in the long run, trying to make him an agressive attacking player and that costs him some games right now.

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A lot of good info here. Read the lengthy Intro, 5-10 minutes, well worth your time. Then you can come back here and make a better decision.

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Hi guys, i'm probably at a better level than you so "active and passive play" has perhaps a different meaning than OP but here is my take:

I think the thing as players that we should strive for is consistency. We are amateurs. Film your matches and count the number of winners in each set, compared to the number of unforced errors. I'm sure the analysis will tell you that if you do less errors, then you'd get a big chance to win in a lot of your matches.

So you should develop your strokes and play at a pace such that you land 80%+ perhaps 85% of your shots on the table. Thats also a question of shot selection: if you see the ball has a lot of backspin and you're not good at topspin against it, just push it back. or play mainly in the diagonals unless the ball is easier. playing straight is always more risky.

Within that constraint of consistency, then you must be as active and as aggressive that you can. Aggressive doesn't mean speed. It means putting extra speed, but also extra spin, or aiming more near the edges of the tables (far end or sides).
If there is an easier ball or if the opponent has "launched" the rally and the ball is already moving fast, go for it.

It also ALWAYS mean going to the ball. Whatever the stroke, a block, a push , a topspin, in TT never WAIT for the ball to come into your racket, you don't have much control this way. If you always make the effort to go to the ball, and time it a bit earlier, the quality of all your shots will improve.

Yesterday I played an much younger opponent which is around my level, but i had the impression of seeing my double of a few months ago. There were a lot of balls where he would rush and take a risky shot like a strong attack or a difficult flick, and make a mistake. I used to do the same, nowadays i would try to adjust my position first and play safe these balls which look easy but aren't.

His consistency was below mine because he was trying to play faster than I did. Playing more slowly didn't mean i had less technique or physical condition; actually when there were fast rallies, i was the faster player and took the big and fast shots WHEN necessary, i even surprised myself using (without thinking) my best shots decisively in the money time (end of sets).

I am more waiting for the right ball. Especially in receive and 3rd ball - in the beginning of the point, i am trying to go for percentage. Thats where I think I have improved a lot in the last months and now can beat players that I couldn't beat before.

Years, maybe decades of experience, feel for yourself and the moment, and personal courage/judgment will guide what will work.

TT is such a mental game when it gets to crunch time pressure. You overthink it and you are toast.

You have knowledge of tactics, which are specific things or sequences to lead to winning points. (eg. Use slow, heavy topspin shallow or deep to BH.)

You have the ability to see what the opponent is doing and make adjustments in what you do, discovering and shifting to things that now may work. (This is known as adaptability and tactical intelligence)

You have strategic goals and objectives (eg. Learn where opponent's middle is at, Learn opponent's shot decision making, Learn opponent's mistakes in feet position)

How you put together your strategic goals/vision into application and adjustment of tactical decision can count for a lot. Don't overthink stuff, trust your judgment and be brave. Knowing percentages and being brave to calculate and take risks are game breakers given where both opponents are fairly matched up.

It is better to develop an all around style of game for non pro. Both areas of defense and offense can be developed to win you points in a match.

I think it is good to always aim to play the ball in safe and when you have the time to think "this is an easy ball" then it is and you should try to end the point. it can also be good to be play soft and work with the angles and the placement. A soft ball in the pocket(is it called pocket in english?), is more difficult than a hard ball in the middle of backhand or forehand.

I also think it is very important to develope a playing style. You can not be good at everything, so it is good that you are thinking about how you should play. Ask yourself what you are good at or what you want to be good at, try to practice that in exercises so you becomes good at it. Try to serve and return with a purpose, to always get the balls that you are good at and have done in the exercises. We always need a purpose and a plan with every shot we play, playing otherwise is leaving the result up to chance.

I do not know much but equipment but i thought you wanted the slower blade for spinoriented play from the table due the higher trajectory and the faster blade closer to the table due to the lower and more direct trajectory?

Lula, the choice of equipment will vary by player and how player plays players.

Myself, I value high arcing shots, I also generally play close to the table. I like safety, which for me on topspin shots, is a high arcing topspin shot with more than your average bear of spin on it. A hitter will like laser precision low throw fast rebounding everything.. mostly. It depends.

Safe can be safe for only so long. If you serve and opponent returns and you give back 3rd ball as underspin, you might die a horrible death each point doing that vs certain players your level and above. Safe might be bending knees and being ready to spin the ball.

EDIT: After seeing another post by Lula on another thread, Lula plays or played Div 1 in amauture Swedish TT, you gotta be 2300+ USATT to get near those boys.

OrienteTT said:

Well, actully it happened today with me too.

In my case as a coach, I have a kid that I started coaching 1 year ago almost exactly, he is 10 years old, and his game right now is based in serve and attack from Fh, all table, flips the ball on Bh and has a good fast game.

The problem: obviously today in the district championships he lost to a kid that pushed the ball very well, my kids pushing game is not as good,also the touch is not good enough, he lost 12-10; 12-10 and 11-9 almost with unforced errors.

I mantain my goal of teaching him in the long run, trying to make him an agressive attacking player and that costs him some games right now.

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OrienteTT, where do you coach?

iamsan said:

with active play i mean more spin and near-table oriented aggressive playstyle. Herefore i use a slow blade, while
with passive play i mean more safety and away from the table playstyle with a fast blade which do the work for u.

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Well, its good that you explain your understanding of passive/active.
For me its different. One thing you are right is that the active play is always spiny. The passive play has no spin, or little spin. Aside from passive/active we may play negative/positive. Negative to just keep the ball on the table, positive to make the game difficult for the oponent with all we have. The distance from the table is a matter of style and tactics, you may play active and positive from long distance, and you may play passive and negative at short distance. Also you may play passive-positive, or active-negative.
What should be the ratio? Well, maybe it will depend mostly on the ratio oponent level/ your level, corrected with the factor of your during-the-match analyzing abilities to change tactics.

hipnotic said:

OrienteTT, where do you coach?

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Atlantico da Madalena, Gaia

OrienteTT said:

Atlantico da Madalena, Gaia

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Maybe we've met before. Now i play for S.Cosme but played for Ginásio de Valbom, NCR Valongo and CENAP (Aveiro) in the past.

OrienteTT said:

I mantain my goal of teaching him in the long run, trying to make him an agressive attacking player and that costs him some games right now.

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good point

So, a long pips player .. can beat a developing kid, being taught to be agressive.

I think you have to master both ways to play in the long term but seeking for opportunities to play aggressive.

It's not like rush in every ball with full power, but canalize those moments when the opponent gives you a easy ball.

If you're not ready, you can be passive but seeking for a opportunity to win the point.

Sometimes the opponent is waiting for a ball away from the table and a passive block is more efficient then a active block.



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If you really want to develop then you need to practice being aggressive during real games. If you stay passive all the time then your skills might plateau.

Right now I'm playing in two different leagues at my club. I play a safer all round style in the league that I care about. But in the other league I don't care about my rating so I play more aggressive and take more difficult shots. It's been very helpful for my development. My aggressive backhand loops are getting more consistent during real game situations.

As far as equipment is concerned, I would use a slow setup with good control that's also easy to generate spin with. Then switch to a slightly faster setup as your consistentcy improves. (That's what I did)




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