How much can we assume based on the blade composition?

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So, I know that there is more to a blade than just its composition, like head size, thickness of the plies, overall thickness, weight, the variables of the wood itself, and so on. And this things can change even within blades of the same model.

So the question is, how much this other variables can “overwrite” the characteristics of the pure blade composition?

Can we assume that blades with same composition share the same dominating characteristics, just with some adjustments, or can they be completely different?
 
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Different - yes.
Completely - depends on the boundaries of the comparitive system and personal sensibility.
"Same composiition" is a very general characteristic. There are so many factors around it that make the difference.

Well, yes. But consider for example the class of koto/alc/limba/kiri//limba/alc/koto blades. There are differences, but also something Wittgenstein would have called Familienähnligkeit. Family resemblance.
 
Well, yes. But consider for example the class of koto/alc/limba/kiri//limba/alc/koto blades. There are differences, but also something Wittgenstein would have called Familienähnligkeit. Family resemblance.

Of course.
But the OP question is about the weight of the differences inside the 'family".
Speaking of TT my opinion is stated above.
But speaking more generally I would say that the differences inside a TT blade family are much less than the differences in a human family. In that respect "family resemblance" in TT is much stronger and more trusty than that in human society. Character tramsposing paradoxes.
 
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How the wood is cut, arranged and glued will have a huge impact on the result as well.

The main reason imo that copy cat blades do not play like the original they are trying to clone is that they do not have the same source wood and gluing/curing process.

I have seen all manner of blade try to imitate something... like say a Clipper... and fail so bad their blade is nothing like it.

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Blades with Arylate or Kevlar or other poly aramides will feel muted or even a bit mushy because those materials absorb high frequency vibrations. The closer it is to the surface the larger that effect will be. If there is also carbon in the weave, ALC blades, that effect is still present but not to such an extreme. This is true no matter what woods are used. Most blades with those materials can feel reasonably similar even if the woods are somewhat different. Enough so that it is pretty easy to adjust.
 
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All other things being equal, a blade with Zylon will be a little faster and crisper than one with Arylate or Kevlar.
 
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Another thing is how the fibers are laid when the plies are laminated. Like, a 7 ply blade where each ply is lined up at a 90-degree angle to the ply next to it will be stiffer than a 7 ply where the plies are lined up like this:

Top ply grain vertical
2nd ply grain horizontal
3rd ply grain horizontal
Core ply grain vertical
3rd ply grain horizontal
2nd ply grain horizontal
Top ply grain vertical

And it would have more flex if the core was also horizontal.

Gluing process can really change the feel a lot as well.

But they will still feel like the same family. Like I can feel Hinoki, Limba or Balsa. If someone gives me a blade and does not tell me it has a balsa core, I still will know. Same with a Hinoki or Limba top ply. If someone gave me a blade with one of those woods as the top ply, I will feel it.
 
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By the way, a good test for this question would be, take these blades:

1) Butterfly Primorac Off-
2) Butterfly Petr Korbel
3) Tibhar Stratus Power Wood
4) OSP Virtuoso Off-
5) OSP Virtuoso Off+
6) Donic Appelgren Allplay

They all have the same exact plies with slightly different thickness of plies, different gluing processes and different treatment of wood before building. They all feel vastly different.

If you wanted to add a Nittaku Acoustic, the two outer plies are the same but the core and gluing process are different. It would feel very different from all of those as well. But, with all of them, there is a quality that you feel from Limba-Limba as the top two plies that you will feel in all of them.
 
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Even with one ply blades were no glue is involved there are differences between blades of the same thickness and wood.
 
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Very interesting responses from all, thanks!

Really liked the family resemblance analogy.

So, for my initial questions:
So the question is, how much this other variables can “overwrite” the characteristics of the pure blade composition?


Can we assume that blades with same composition share the same dominating characteristics, just with some adjustments, or can they be completely different?

The blades WILL share the compositions characteristics, but with more adjustments than I was expecting, but still, not completely different.
The other variables will not overwrite these characteristics, but instead, they will change its intensity within a range.

In a nutshell:

Same same, but different.
 
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My local tt store owner once said, that the difference between the cheap and expensive blades is that the expensive ones are always almost identical. The cheaper blades where the wood quality assurance standard is lower, tend to differ "a little" in terms of speed, elasticity, hardness etc.

I wonder how much does it has to do, with what Ball said that those artificial materials are cutting off high frequency vibrations ... ? Or is it primarily the wood quality thing ...
 
My experience tells me that usually the cheap blades of cheap brands differ a LOT from the expensive ones.
Its not only the wood quality, or more precise - the quality of wood means more than usually understood. For example the use of jointless veneers only may double the price. The use of natural thin glue fits the veneers closer to each other preserving the intended characteristicsq but is more complicated, needs much more consistent veneers and is more expensive. With jointed veneers you have to use thicker glue, usually epoxy. Aside from the differences in characteristics and feel, for me the greatest and most important difference is the consistency.
 
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You could argue that in practice, how the blade's been used and how it has lived will matter a lot as well. Humidity soaking water into the blade over a long time, different sweat from different individuals, heating and cooling cycles, how long it has been subjected to such things etc.

Maybe an explanation for some 'magic equipment' that some people seem to have.
 
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Blades from the same brand and model at least have the closest characteristics when compared to blades if the same composition with other brands that are clones. They maybe faster or slower sometimes. Some are lighter and some are more stiff.
 
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But speaking more generally I would say that the differences inside a TT blade family are much less than the differences in a human family. In that respect "family resemblance" in TT is much stronger and more trusty than that in human society. Character tramsposing paradoxes.

I guess i would have to disagree here, mate, but maybe it's just a matter of perspective.

If someone is tought from early age on to just look for differences then it's easy to miss the similarities, but nevertheless they still are there, and if someone would have a closer look then one would find out that people have more in common than they think.
Even genetically the similarities outweigh the differences by far.
And i think this kind of thinking has caused and still causes nowadays many of this world's problems.
Too much 'me' and too little 'we'.
Also far too much 'they' and too little 'us'.
Hopefully people will one day find out, that 'they' are also 'we'!
If some life form from outer space would land on this planet it would fly away asap, 'cause of mankind's inability to evolve and learn from mistakes of the past.

To OP sorry for OT. Got carried away a little, but most important things have been wrote anyways and i felt an importancy to give a different perspective.

Glueing process, age of wood etc.
All this plays a role in this plot, and make blades feel different, but only to many experienced players. In most cases a total beginner would not be able to feel much difference, and to a pro these little differences would hardly matter, because of their ability to adapt. If one starts overthinking things though then things often get too complicated for no good reason.
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