Can the USA grow the sport

Such a deal is in the best interests of TT table makers too.

Sure, the makers make a killing selling tables to the basement and rec center crowds, but the make more money on pro spec tables.

If USATT leadership could talk their language and be convincing, then we could have some growth potential right there.

More members means more money for clubs and USATT.

Clubs can grow and USATT could do more for tt and the top athletes.

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I saw this grew to over 20 posts fast and thought, I wonder if that was all Der_Echte. This is his subject.

#11 - cut the cost of USATT membership to $35/year, $15/year for students, family $50/year. Current yearly: $75 adults, junior/collegiate $45, family $150. Lifetime $1,300 (really?)

#12 - no more events like: under 2400, under 2300, under 2200..... each having 3 people.

#13 - no byes for elite players until the finals (whom we sign up for the tournament to see). Let them play with the peons too. I'd give T Boll a run for his money.... mix and mingle, that's my motto....

#14 - setup one more table at my rec center. Please. My city has 10 good tables, however, will not setup more than 3. But the city can spend $11M on new soccer fields.https://henrico.us/projects/glover-park/

Der_Echte has me started on a roll...

UpSideDownCarl said:

I saw this grew to over 20 posts fast and thought, I wonder if that was all Der_Echte. This is his subject.

Click to expand...

Nah, I didn't start this trouble of a thread, it starts by itself every few months.

Of course, I always have a lot to say about this topic, but I'm not the only one.

Lula said:

Is it alot of private training in the USA? I think that need to change if the tabletennis is going to become better in the USA. In Sweden and other countries you dont need to spend so much money to be part of organized training. Please correct me if im wrong

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Another thing one has to ask, is if there is to be meaningful training for very little dollars, how and where is it gunna be done? Who is gunna do it for next to free? What venue is gunna let TT happen for hours for next to no money? Where are the Nordic invading hordes of kids that are gunna train this week?

Almost zero USA cities do not have city owned gyms with possibility to partition off 4-6 areas of all these sports at same time. The electricity for these gyms are not paid by the city. The coaches who would train people need money for a job. (Yet, there are some retired players who would coach for free)

The only possible existing currently workable infrastructure in USA is schools. Then you got the same problem getting TT into the schools. There are no 50 plus count of kids in each school eager to do a TT team. (Although TTD Member AGold did it and got a hundred to show up first day.) Then you got the problem of the school administration allowing a stranger they do not know to come to their school and be with kids. The schools do not care how much Safesport vetted an adult (there is not much vetting with that) if a school doesn't know anyone, they do not trust them, ESPECIALLY if they approach the school and offer to work for free... that is a big warning sign to them.

The national association does not have a few dozen boxes of 10 Million USD each stashed away somewhere to kick a portion of this off in a small way. There is no corporate or private donor who would donate to TT that would even approach one half needed to keep a homeless person's soul and body together.

The school districts actually have so much money coming to them through property tax money, it is silly ridiculous, but they mismanage it so much that teachers are paid not even a living wage and kids are pretty much overall getting a much lower level of academic achievement. Really, the schools are wasting the big dollars on facilities, harassment lawsuits, building maintenance, poor equipment decisions and big time sports programs, like American Football. I could run a school district using tents, 3x the teachers and money for comps for way less than 1/2 a typical school board runs its district, but USA is a lost cause on this one.

These are some of the facts on the ground in USA that is a challenge to get stuff rolling.

The key is to get pressure from kids in schools and young adults in meetup halls. Our national association has potential to work this angle right... but look at all the years of time and data we have on the subject and we can see what we got.

Lula said:

Is it alot of private training in the USA? I think that need to change if the tabletennis is going to become better in the USA. In Sweden and other countries you dont need to spend so much money to be part of organized training. Please correct me if im wrong

Click to expand...

chuckjordan2 said:

#12 - no more events like: under 2400, under 2300, under 2200..... each having 3 people.

#13 - no byes for elite players until the finals (whom we sign up for the tournament to see). Let them play with the peons too. I'd give T Boll a run for his money.... mix and mingle, that's my motto....

Click to expand...

Number 9 and 10 must be classified, I don't see 'em.

For No 12, TDs might be under some pressure. Never, unless you get max signups, do they get a perfect number for 4 per group. Then you got the crowd that signs up for 5 events, then defaults like an etoys.com business loan. Some try to go to the three per group to maximize chances of advancing, but all it really does is give the top players in the field a better shot at advancing. Still, those old geezers and pesky kids win a game and top player is walking to the car wondering what hit them.

No 13 is as tricky as dealing with sandbaggers. You ban them, you shoot yourself in your bank account. You force them to do unwilling, they don't come back. They have the decisive leverage.

Der_Echte said:

Nah, I didn't start this trouble of a thread, it starts by itself every few months.

Of course, I always have a lot to say about this topic, but I'm not the only one.

Click to expand...

I know you didn't start it. But this is your subject so it makes sense to me that 13 of 28 posts (just short of 50%) are by The Original Der_Echte.

And we do need people like you to try and figure out what will help make the sport grow.

chuckjordan2 said:

#14 - setup one more table at my rec center. Please. My city has 10 good tables, however, will not setup more than 3. But the city can spend $11M on new soccer fields.https://henrico.us/projects/glover-park/

Der_Echte has me started on a roll...

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You need to roll all the way to a city hall victory on that one.

Concrete for a TT table and steel for a TT net for 3-4 tables costs only so much, but a 400 square meter skate park with ramps and fence is an injury lawsuit waiting to happen and costs the magnitude of what you presented.

In USA rec centers, space is usually a very large area inside a rec center, but it is SO MISMANAGED. Even billiards, which is a very popular rec sport... rec centers have no idea how to properly space that... then put a TT table within one meter of a billiards table !!

UpSideDownCarl said:

I know you didn't start it. But this is your subject so it makes sense to me that 13 of 28 posts (just short of 50%) are by The Original Der_Echte.

And we do need people like you to try and figure out what will help make the sport grow.

Click to expand...

I tell you what, Der_Echte DOES stand up and have a loud azz voice... I can do that, it needs to be done.

... and did the NSA Spyphoney V9.2 upgrade keep you awake to watch the longest Word Series Baseball game in the entire history of the sport all the way to the end ??

UpSideDownCarl said:

I know you didn't start it. But this is your subject so it makes sense to me that 13 of 28 posts (just short of 50%) are by The Original Der_Echte.

And we do need people like you to try and figure out what will help make the sport grow.

Click to expand...

The notion of communality seems to me to have gone MIA a long, long time ago already over there. Everytime I have had to visit my impression of a deeply sad country, wallowing in pitiful decadence and filled with lonely, angry people scared witless of one another is deepened.

Not much room for things that in the end are not just individualistic, self-centered. It did not surprise me to read the tunnelvisioned knee-jerk reaction of “but how does one make money out it”. Not at all.

yoass said:

The notion of communality seems to me to have gone MIA a long, long time ago already over there. Everytime I have had to visit my impression of a deeply sad country, wallowing in pitiful decadence and filled with lonely, angry people scared witless of one another is deepened.

Not much room for things that in the end are not just individualistic, self-centered. It did not surprise me to read the tunnelvisioned knee-jerk reaction of “but how does one make money out it”. Not at all.

Click to expand...

It is sad but this is really soooo true.

Der_Echte said:

I tell you what, Der_Echte DOES stand up and have a loud azz voice... I can do that, it needs to be done.

... and did the NSA Spyphoney V9.2 upgrade keep you awake to watch the longest Word Series Baseball game in the entire history of the sport all the way to the end ??

Click to expand...

I didn't even know the World Series was on. I am oblivious. These days I work and take care of the kid. I knew the stock market went down. But I had no idea about baseball. I guess they want to play into November. That would be fun to see a snow game.

Lula said:

Is it alot of private training in the USA? I think that need to change if the tabletennis is going to become better in the USA. In Sweden and other countries you dont need to spend so much money to be part of organized training. Please correct me if im wrong

Click to expand...

Yes in Europe juniors can get group coaching very cheap or even free if they are top players paid for by their association. Also don't have to travel far.

yoass said:

The notion of communality seems to me to have gone MIA a long, long time ago already over there. Everytime I have had to visit my impression of a deeply sad country, wallowing in pitiful decadence and filled with lonely, angry people scared witless of one another is deepened.

Not much room for things that in the end are not just individualistic, self-centered. It did not surprise me to read the tunnelvisioned knee-jerk reaction of “but how does one make money out it”. Not at all.

Click to expand...

One thing that supports your view is table tennis largely being an individual pursuit in the US but in Europe it's very much a team based affair for the majority. Team leagues is the core of the local scene anyway.

If I were really serious about this I would use the public access TV channels and bumper stickers on cars directing people where to watch and play.

I would try to get 30 minutes of time each week on a public access channel. The time doesn't matter. It could be at 3AM because those that are interested will record the program anyway. I would try to record 3 matches can trim them down to 10 minutes each. Perhaps add some commentary about the play afterwards. The editing would be the time consuming and hard part. I know. I make YouTube videos for my channel.

Perhaps doing what the SPTTC does would work. The SPTTC streams their videos to YouTube. I watch some of the matches there but I scan through the video until I see someone or some style that is interesting. I wonder how or if the SPTTC videos have helped their membership.

What if the manufacturers could be enticed to put a flyer in the packaging of the tables so that the customers would see there is a wider world of table tennis than their basement or garage.

I would try to direct people to the usatt.org website but the website fails in my opinion. Look at the find a club. How is a person that is new going to find a club if they don't know the names. I would use the location of the phone or computer or zip code to list all clubs in the area.

You guys can bitch and moan all you want but doing what you have always done will get you what you have always got.

If we can break the stigma that TT isn't a sport but a recreational activity, then more than likely yes. However, I don't think we can ever break that stigma.

When I tell people I play(ed) TT competitively, I get laughed at. I've never gotten that reaction when I tell people I swim, play basketball or rock climb. Soccer, basketball, football, tennis, badminton and even golf are taken more seriously because they appear more physically demanding even at lower levels. Heck look at the size of the arena and the amount of ground athletes needs to cover compared to TT. I have to pull out clips of the likes of FZD,XX and ML before people even reluctantly relent that TT is a physically challenging sport.. and then too all they think you're doing is hitting a piddly ball back and forth with a piddly paddles like a goofy fool.

I don't think we can ever break that stigma for sure, even I consider it more of a guilty pleasure than some of the other sports I've played seriously. No matter how much fun and addicting TT is, I don't think you can convince me it's as serious or demanding or glorious as soccer, football or basketball.

I hated saying this.