Li Sun: It's Time to Shift Our Thinking of Ito

I haven't watched much Mima Ito before this tournament. Knew of here just never watched much of her.

What struck me was that her FH stroke is completely smashing & short pips like despite playing inverted on that side.

Her BH is classic fast SP style of play so that makes sense.

and time is more on Hirano's side than Ishikawa.

despite all the Ishikawa bashing, she is very very consistent against all non-Chinese players, and I think she also won her most recent encounters against ITO and HIRANO ! so I believe she will still be a key member of the JNT team. The only thing is don't let her play the final against China ! SHIBATA or HAYATA wouldn't do a worse job !

I think ITO lacks power in top spin play due to her size, she can't win long topspin rallies, but if she dominates with her BH she can go for the quick FH kill when a chance arises

thanks so much again @zeio for your subbed translations !

zeio said:

Oh, reminds me of this picture. Ito's expression says it all.

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difficult to know exactly what ITO thinks, but I would think she's more disappointed with ISHIKAWA's attitude against the Chinese than her technical skills. She keeps choking again and again, especially when its tight at the end of a set

Its still so incredible how Japan's average age for its main starting line up has been so young for a long time
These are a bunch of juniors, and have years of senior level experience, and ranked in the top 10 for a while....

The China Japan rivalry for the next 5-10 years should be exciting to watch

Tony's Table Tennis said:

Its still so incredible how Japan's average age for its main starting line up has been so young for a long time
These are a bunch of juniors, and have years of senior level experience, and ranked in the top 10 for a while....

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They have many players still relatively young (in their early twenties) who would be number 1 player in many countries, but have no chance to ever compete in the big championships for the JNT because of the younger star players. MORI Sakura, MORIZONO Misaki, HAMAMOTO Yui, KATO Kyoka (injured ? retired ?), etc...

Loopadoop said:

The China Japan rivalry for the next 5-10 years should be exciting to watch

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I wouldn't hold my breath on that, now that LGL is back.
As for Ito, I really like her. But she might become another Hirano Miu soon.
Once the CNT is focused on solving a certain play style, its get defeated pretty quickly.

The only way for Ito to keep beating the CNT is to keep adding new skills to her repertoire and become a complete player.
You can't expect to keep playing the same way and still keep beating the CNT.

On men's side, I think FZD will dominate for the next few years, unless he gets injured.
Recently, I've seen too many great players being sent packing easily by FZD to think otherwise.

I have to agree with usualsuspect in your general observations .. however you have to look at the nuances a little bit ...

Miu Hirano : Shovel serve and attack on topspin ball early in the game , ability to stay in the rally on both sides but does not have enough strength to generate power on long deep pushes...
Harimoto : Phenomenal backhand and ability to stay in the rally .. lacks quality and consistency in Forehand
Mima Ito : Unique style , lot of variations, ability to take the ball early , generate awkward fast balls with pips , amazing mental strength and fearless attitude, she never thinks that she does not have a chance .. thats a very rare quality only a select few have .. Ding Ning herself said that she plays every ball the same does not matter if its 0-0 or 10-10 ...

Who would you think has a chance for longer term success ? The key for her is to not overexpose her game and peak during the right time for majors. If she and her coach can figure that out she is going to be a continuous threat ...

usualsuspect said:

I wouldn't hold my breath on that, now that LGL is back.
As for Ito, I really like her. But she might become another Hirano Miu soon.
Once the CNT is focused on solving a certain play style, its get defeated pretty quickly.

The only way for Ito to keep beating the CNT is to keep adding new skills to her repertoire and become a complete player.
You can't expect to keep playing the same way and still keep beating the CNT.

On men's side, I think FZD will dominate for the next few years, unless he gets injured.
Recently, I've seen too many great players being sent packing easily by FZD to think otherwise.

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zeio said:

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Chinese players will comeback stronger . It's more frightening when china lose , because a stronge comeback will happen .

usualsuspect said:

I wouldn't hold my breath on that, now that LGL is back.
As for Ito, I really like her. But she might become another Hirano Miu soon.
Once the CNT is focused on solving a certain play style, its get defeated pretty quickly.

The only way for Ito to keep beating the CNT is to keep adding new skills to her repertoire and become a complete player.
You can't expect to keep playing the same way and still keep beating the CNT.
[...]

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I guess, I would argue that too. Ito's unique style and her execution might be a constant threat. Zhang Yining also played pretty much the same style and was unbeaten basically throughout her career, also everybody knows Leo's tricks and yet somehow all his soccer opponents fall for them each time they play ...

Takkyu_wa_inochi said:

its about politics and sponsors, ZJK wasn't really 100% fit for RIO still he took the spot, [and made it to the finals but took "only" an equally Samsonov in semis], it was even worse for WTTC in 2017 but at least there were 4 other spots.

So if she stays at the current level of performance, history suggests Ding Ning would defend her title.

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I'm sure what you wrote about how zhang jike got to Rio and Final is just a joke !! Zhang jike wasnt 100percent fit but he handled every game very well with the serious back injury which got worse in team games ; specially in his game with young sik . Youngsik was the one who was close to beat ma long in singles in Rio . About samsonov what I like to say is that He is a living legend and he defeated dima before confronting with zhang jike . So Samsonov was one of the toughest competitors in Rio . Also China sent it's best two players in both men and women . I dont know if liu guoliang didnt wanted to send zhang jike to Rio who could have been playing instead of him ?? For sure not Xu xin and Fanzhendong which you may know why !!

Gladxu said:

I'm sure what you wrote about how zhang jike got to Rio and Final is just a joke !! Zhang jike wasnt 100percent fit but he handled every game very well with the serious back injury which got worse in team games ; specially in his game with young sik . Youngsik was the one who was close to beat ma long in singles in Rio . About samsonov what I like to say is that He is a living legend and he defeated dima before confronting with zhang jike . So Samsonov was one of the toughest competitors in Rio . Also China sent it's best two players in both men and women . I dont know if liu guoliang didnt wanted to send zhang jike to Rio who could have been playing instead of him ?? For sure not Xu xin and Fanzhendong which you may know why !!

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I'm serious. Before Rio2016, ZJK was already plagued with injuries and his level dropped to #10-20 ranked player. China took a great risk making him play, and no i don't know why they didn't let FZD or XX play instead in singles. XX did lose to Mizutani in the team's even finals, but really nobody expected this to happen, and it was a miracle win (that i enjoyed very much watching ). FZD despite his young age had already an outstanding record to foreign players.

How did ZJK get to the singles final ?
He beat Chen Chien-An 4-0 (with 2 tight sets), Crisan 4-0 , Niwa 4-1. Niwa is a #10-20 player, and we all know it depends on his mood ! So not an abnormal result.

ZJK had much more difficulties against Samsonov 4-1 but he won his sets only with 2 points margin and twice at deuce.
Samsonov was indeed playing very well in this tournament, but he injured himself (back injury as well) during his match against Ovtcharov. You will never hear Samsonov complain too much about injuries, but its a fact if you research. If Samsonov had been playing ZJK in QF, i really think he would have beaten this ZJK. But we will never know.

In the team event, ZJK played only one singles against Jeong Youngsik and beat him 3-2. a good win for ZJK. I don't remember this match. it was close anyway. The pressure was perhaps on JYS side because it was the 1st match and the rest of the line up suggested Korea badly needed this first match ?

#10-20 means I think ZJK would have lost with more than 50% probability the likes of (a non-injured) Samsonov, Boll , Ovtcharov or Mizutani for example, and a 20%+ chance to lose the likes of JYS, LSS , in-form Niwa, WCT. the ZJK from 2011-2013 would have crushed all those players without any problem.

I think XX or FZD were robbed of their chance to play and they had a real chance to win against MA Long even though MA Long was the favourite, it was not 100% skewed in his favour like against ZJK

Takkyu_wa_inochi said:

I'm serious. Before Rio2016, ZJK was already plagued with injuries and his level dropped to #10-20 ranked player. China took a great risk making him play, and no i don't know why they didn't let FZD or XX play instead in singles. XX did lose to Mizutani in the team's even finals, but really nobody expected this to happen, and it was a miracle win (that i enjoyed very much watching ). FZD despite his young age had already an outstanding record to foreign players.

How did ZJK get to the singles final ?
He beat Chen Chien-An 4-0 (with 2 tight sets), Crisan 4-0 , Niwa 4-1. Niwa is a #10-20 player, and we all know it depends on his mood ! So not an abnormal result.

ZJK had much more difficulties against Samsonov 4-1 but he won his sets only with 2 points margin and twice at deuce.
Samsonov was indeed playing very well in this tournament, but he injured himself (back injury as well) during his match against Ovtcharov. You will never hear Samsonov complain too much about injuries, but its a fact if you research. If Samsonov had been playing ZJK in QF, i really think he would have beaten this ZJK. But we will never know.

In the team event, ZJK played only one singles against Jeong Youngsik and beat him 3-2. a good win for ZJK. I don't remember this match. it was close anyway. The pressure was perhaps on JYS side because it was the 1st match and the rest of the line up suggested Korea badly needed this first match ?

#10-20 means I think ZJK would have lost with more than 50% probability the likes of (a non-injured) Samsonov, Boll , Ovtcharov or Mizutani for example, and a 20%+ chance to lose the likes of JYS, LSS , in-form Niwa, WCT. the ZJK from 2011-2013 would have crushed all those players without any problem.

I think XX or FZD were robbed of their chance to play and they had a real chance to win against MA Long even though MA Long was the favourite, it was not 100% skewed in his favour like against ZJK

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It wss a risk yes but the risk of using players like Fan zhendong who was inexperienced in olympic which is a different stage and xu xin who didnt show any good potential in big titles were higher . I'm more surprised about how you analyzed his process to Final . In all the games the pressure were on chinese players , specially it was on zhang jike more than ma long be cause he came to defend his title and also beside that he wanted to prove that liu guoliang did make a great decision choosing him . So it was a double pressure and add injury too . And also I dont know why you try to make the players he won like '' local '' players who didnt have any interest or goal for olympic and was just sent to lose to chinese . For the audience like you all the games were shaky but behind every game is sacrfise and dedication , thats why zhang jike got the attention and pure love of the people . All the things you wrote about percents are just your prediction . But I'm sure when liu guoliang choose some one for " olympic " he knows that the player has got something that other players ( XX , FZD ) didnt have . And Lol why you think the winning of Mizutani was a " miracle " ?????? Its more unfair . Muzutani and ma long 's games were the most excitement game beside zjk and youngsik . Mizutani played tha last games vs xu xin like his life deoends on it . I recommend you to watch the game again and saw how shaky xu xin ' s game was with no plan and a very predictable game for a giant like mizu who was close to win ma long .about FZD again I say Not even after olympic FZD couldnt win ma long in another bigger final in WTTC 2017 so you got your answer and about xu xin its more cerain what could be his result in olympic vs Ma long . What I want to say in conclusion is that please dont put a player under question mark by your self predictions which all is just probability and odds , like if he was playing or he if other player were in her shoes . I also apprecuate liu guoliang for his player choosing . Be cause it was one of the best olympics for team china in table tennis .

@Glaxdu
this is by the way not just my opinion but also the opinion of my coach which is an ex-pro and ex-JNT player.

ZJK is attracting a lot of money from sponsors and it was unimaginable not to line him up. Fact. He had already some embarrassing losses just before Rio to some foreign players. No such thing for XX or FZD.

Mizutani played very well in this Olympics and I'm very happy as I like him very much and was very excited to see him beating Xu Xin live. But I'm sorry, Xu Xin is the better player, its Mizutani's only victory over him, and only victory against a top Chinese in a big event. and if they play again, Mizutani won't win. So we had a combination of Mizutani in the form of his life, and Xu Xin being a bit too cocky, and destiny for once choosing Mizutani who saved match points. Fact.

Now it turned out well for ZJK. He got silver in singles and gold in team. Mission accomplished. But if I was XX or FZD, I'd be very pissed off